Are you submitting your high end coins to PCGS Secure Plus?

bidask · August 26, 2011 7:15AM

I had a 1798 15 stars bust dollar in a pcgs xf 45 holder but at the ANA I decided to submit it to the PCGS Secure plus
grading service.........specifically because of their 'sniffer'.

I thought if it passed the sniffer test that I could be reasonably sure the surfaces were not altered ( sorry no pic).

Next I will see what CAC says.

Cert Verification #: 05947399
PCGS Coin #: 6868
Date, mintmark: 1798
Denomination: $1
Variety: Small Eagle, 15 Stars
Minor Variety:
Mint Error:
Pedigree:
Country: The United States of America
Grade: XF45
Mintage: 10,000
PCGS Price GuideSM Value: $17,500
Holder Type: PCGS Secure Plus™
Population: 6

MrEureka · August 26, 2011 7:38AM

I had a 1798 15 stars bust dollar in a pcgs xf 45 holder but at the ANA I decided to submit it to the PCGS Secure plus grading service.........specifically because of their 'sniffer'.

Wouldn't they sniff it anyway?

DennisH · August 26, 2011 7:46AM

No I am not.

dragon · August 26, 2011 7:50AM

Please explain how it benefits me (as a collector) to spend extra money on a submission for Secure Plus, as the coins I collect are worth no premium to me whatsoever if they are already in those SC holders.

edited to add: In addition to having the additional 'handling' of the coin which increases the possibility it could be accidentally scratched or fingerprinted.

bidask · August 26, 2011 7:57AM

<< I had a 1798 15 stars bust dollar in a pcgs xf 45 holder but at the ANA I decided to submit it to the PCGS Secure plus grading service.........specifically because of their 'sniffer'.

Wouldn't they sniff it anyway? >>

I thought the 'sniffer' technology is only for secure plus.....not standard submissions....I might be wrong.

I wanted to be sure the coin in the pcgs holder I previously had ( pre sniffer technology) made the secure holder.... which presumbly says to the world no altered substances in a secure holder because it went thru their sniffer test.

bidask · August 26, 2011 8:02AM

<< Please explain how it benefits me (as a collector) to spend extra money on a submission for Secure Plus, as the coins I collect are worth no premium to me whatsoever if they are already in those SC holders.

edited to add: In addition to having the additional 'handling' of the coin which increases the possibility it could be accidentally scratched or fingerprinted. >>

For an expensive coin that you may own in a current pcgs holder (that has not been sniffed) you may want to submit it to secure plus for the snffer reason alone. For me it gave me some peace of mind.

Unknown · August 26, 2011 8:11AM

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bidask · August 26, 2011 8:11AM

This taken from the PCGS website concerning one of the main draws to submit coins to their Secure Plus service.

'PCGS Secure Plus is a new, patent-pending service we consider to be the industry's most significant advancement in consumer protection since the introduction of third-party grading in 1986.

Released after two years of extensive testing in partnership with Coinsecure, Inc. of Palo Alto, California, the PCGS Secure Plus system digitally captures the unique "fingerprint" of each coin, and enters it into a permanent data base. Neither the coin's appearance nor its grade can be changed without flagging the system. If any previously registered coin has been artificially toned, puttied or processed in some other way in an effort to get a higher grade, it will automatically be detected.'

jamesfsm · August 26, 2011 8:13AM

I don't entirely get why a small number of folks submit existing PCGS coins for just the SP service but not for upgrading (re-grading) with SP. I have heard of modern collectors doing this to get large collections wholly in SP holders as well. To each his own but I agree with Dragon. Why mess with an already holdered and nice coin? I can think of better things to buy as well.

bidask · August 26, 2011 8:17AM

<< I don't entirely get why a small number of folks submit existing PCGS coins for just the SP service but not for upgrading (re-grading) with SP. I have heard of modern collectors doing this to get large collections wholly in SP holders as well. To each his own but I agree with Dragon. Why mess with an already holdered and nice coin? I can think of better things to buy as well. >>

Because there are 'nice' coins sitting in holders whose surfaces have been altered. I am not talking 'genuine' either.

MrEureka · August 26, 2011 8:17AM

I wanted to be sure the coin in the pcgs holder I previously had ( pre sniffer technology) made the secure holder.... which presumbly says to the world no altered substances in a secure holder because it went thru their sniffer test.

Although I can't tell you exactly what gets sniffed and what doesn't, it is my understanding that any coin in a regular PCGS slab can be put into a Secure Plus holder for a small fee. (And if that were not the case, all hell would break loose!)

bidask · August 26, 2011 8:19AM

<< I wanted to be sure the coin in the pcgs holder I previously had ( pre sniffer technology) made the secure holder.... which presumbly says to the world no altered substances in a secure holder because it went thru their sniffer test.

Although I can't tell you exactly what gets sniffed and what doesn't, it is my understanding that any coin in a regular PCGS slab can be put into a Secure Plus holder for a small fee. (And if that were not the case, all hell would break loose!) >>

If any previously registered coin has been artificially toned, puttied or processed in some other way in an effort to get a higher grade, it will automatically be detected.'....from their website.

MrEureka · August 26, 2011 8:38AM

If any previously registered coin has been artificially toned, puttied or processed in some other way in an effort to get a higher grade, it will automatically be detected.'....from their website.

Link, please! I'd like to read it in context.

I'd also like to know if anyone here has had any such surprises when submitting coins for Secure Plus reholdering. And how did that go?

bidask · August 26, 2011 8:44AM

Link to pcgs secure plus information

DonWillis · August 26, 2011 1:31PM

You can always take a coin in a Standard holder and get it reholdered in Secure Plus.

Or, you can take a coin in a Standard holder and submit it through Regrade into a Secure Plus holder. You are guaranteed that your coin will not downgrade or we will buy it back from you.

Secure Plus is the way to go for all coins, especially coins of high value.

AnkurJ · August 26, 2011 1:40PM

Nah. A CAC sticker is more than enough for me.

magikbilly · August 26, 2011 6:04PM

As I recall, sniffing and scanning were happening before we knew it. It would be in their interest to scan and sniff more than less. I think the "+" and "Secure Plus" could potentially confuse someone? I'd like to read more about the gradeflation that takes place for the right reasons reasons in that link there.

Eric

RYK · August 26, 2011 9:43PM

<< Nah. A CAC sticker is more than enough for me. >>

Given the context of this thread, and the fact that Don Willis responded just prior to your post, a simple "no" would have sufficed.

At any rate, as I have stated before, neither I, my fellow collecting friends, nor my favorite dealers seem to have taken to it, and I do not see many SP coins on the bourse or in dealer inventories. I personally have not seen the benefit for me doing so for the small number of submissions that I make.

Given the choice between having a coin in an SP holder or the SAME coin in an OGH, I will take the OGH every time.

lkeigwin · August 26, 2011 10:25PM

<< Nah. A CAC sticker is more than enough for me. >>

Oh my. That's a little rude. Besides, SP and CAC serve different purposes.
Lance.

RB1026 · August 27, 2011 12:20AM

<< Secure Plus is the way to go for all coins, especially coins of high value. >>

I guess I am a PCGS "kool aid" drinker because I totally agree with Don on this one. If the technology now exists to detect doctoring and/or guarantee a coin is in its original state, it's a NO brainer as far as I am concerned. Now, the market at large may as yet disagree with me. That's fine. Not the first time, won't be the last.

With the prevalence of coin altering and the likelihood it will advance to new heights in the future as the bad guys improve their techniques, I see the PCGS Secure Plus service becoming "industry standard" for better coins. Right now, I think it may be a little like the days after certification started in the mid 80s. Lots of dealers and collectors are skeptical. As more and more get burned by altered pieces and the market rejects them, you'll see more PCGS SP labels in dealer cases imho.

jamesfsm · August 27, 2011 12:42AM

They are NOT offering a guaranty that a coin is in its 'original state.' SP is a guarantee that certain surface additives (putty, grease, etc...) are not present NOW. For example, if a coin had an oil-based chemical added that had evaporated, there is at least a good chance that insufficient vapors would exist NOW for SP to find it.

RB1026 · August 27, 2011 1:05AM

<< They are NOT offering a guaranty that a coin is in its 'original state.' SP is a guarantee that certain surface additives (putty, grease, etc...) are not present NOW. For example, if a coin had an oil-based chemical added that had evaporated, there is at least a good chance that insufficient vapors would exist NOW for SP to find it. >>

Point taken. My post was poorly worded on that aspect of SP. I knew what I thought I was saying but it came out differently than intended. Thanks for correcting that for me.

RYK · August 27, 2011 1:14AM

Part of the problem is that there is a lot of confusion about what service is exclusive to SP and what is not. For example, we have learned that the sniffer can be used for regular submissions, at the discretion of PCGS. Also, it is my impression that the extra diagnostics of SP benefit PCGS more than anyone else. Finally, it is my opinion that if there are proprietary diagnostic tools that are necessary for accurate grading and doctoring detection, they should be used for all coins (or all coins over a certain value).

Are you submitting your high end coins to PCGS Secure Plus?

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