Mr. David Hall, will PCGS grade a lincoln 67BN? How about 66+BN?

Coppercolor · August 24, 2011 11:03AM

Will PCGS grade a lincoln 67BN? How about 66+BN.

You all haven't assigned either of those grades yet.... And I'm wondering if there is an inherent technical reason that super high grade brown lincolns don't qualify for grades higher than 66BN?

Thank you for you thoughts. And other opinions welcome.
Coppercolor

MsMorrisine · August 24, 2011 11:07AM

something tells me you have a picture or two you want to post.

illini420 · August 24, 2011 11:26AM

I have a few 1909 VDBs graded MS66BN... and not all are equal. One is just pretty boring looking, while a couple of them are just monsters with tons of color/luster. I guess I could send all of them in for a regrade to see if a 66+BN is possible

But that's quite a bit of money just for the attempt. I doubt they would do MS67BN, just like they won't do MS68RB.

robec · August 24, 2011 11:30AM

I've got one of each in proof, or are you referring just to mintstate?

PCcoins · August 24, 2011 12:23PM

<< I've got one of each in proof, or are you referring just to mintstate? >>

I believe he is referring to mint state coins, not proofs.

Because toned business strike Lincolns is Jeff's passion. It would be a historical day, if a 67BN is ever graded at pcgs.

Groiny · August 24, 2011 12:32PM

.....how many do you want Skipper ?

Coppercolor · August 24, 2011 2:12PM

<< .....how many do you want Skipper ? >>

Jes wanna see one my friend Groiny, just one. And I admit I'd like it to be in my grubby little hands.

Ms. Morrisine,
No setup here, just an honest inquiry. I own 14 PCGS 66BN Lincolns and like Illini says, they are far from equal. When pawing through them it certainly seems reasonable to think a couple are 65BN's, most are 66BN's and perhaps a couple are 66+ or 67BN.

But I WAS fishing for an answer from Mr. Hall that might have gone as follows...

"Sorry fella, a 100 year old copper piece still has to have had he preservation necessary for it to still be RB to hit 67. On the other hand a 200 year old copper piece is different and even the highest level of preservation may not have kept it RD or RB and so it can warrant a 67" says sir Hallicus

Bochiman · August 24, 2011 2:54PM

I believe, a few years back, HRH stated something about not believing a BN coin could/should be 67 or higher.
Of course, he also doesn't think toned peace dollars are NT, so who knows what will happen with the copper

illini420 · August 24, 2011 3:50PM

<< I believe, a few years back, HRH stated something about not believing a BN coin could/should be 67 or higher.
Of course, he also doesn't think toned peace dollars are NT, so who knows what will happen with the copper

>>

I remember hearing pretty much the same in reference to Lincolns. 66BN is the max for a BN and 67RB is the max for a RB. With the advent of plus grading, I bet they give a few plus grades. I already tried both of my 67RB 1909 VDBs for pluses and it just didn't happen though. Perhaps I should try out these MS66BNs someday?? The pics aren't my best, but here they are:

jessecarlk · August 24, 2011 5:14PM

<< I believe, a few years back, HRH stated something about not believing a BN coin could/should be 67 or higher.
Of course, he also doesn't think toned peace dollars are NT, so who knows what will happen with the copper

>>

I remember when TPGs didn't believe that an ms/pf 70 should exist.

Coppercolor · August 26, 2011 1:31AM

<< 

<< I believe, a few years back, HRH stated something about not believing a BN coin could/should be 67 or higher.
Of course, he also doesn't think toned peace dollars are NT, so who knows what will happen with the copper

>>

I remember when TPGs didn't believe that an ms/pf 70 should exist. >>

Nice perspective, I like that.

renomedphys · August 26, 2011 1:48AM

BTW, just polished the slab last night. Looks like new

And if any coin could go MS66+BN, it's this one.

Coppercolor · August 26, 2011 3:31AM

<<

BTW, just polished the slab last night. Looks like new

And if any coin could go MS66+BN, it's this one. >>

Yes my friend, Renemedphys, yes it should. And you may recall my spirited pursuit of your coin for some time now.

Furthermore, I believe if I had your 09VDB, ILLINI's, and submitted those along with my 14, in order from worst to best in a regrade submission, that it would make a heck of a compelling silent argument to assign your coin, a 56D, 57D and 17D of mine, and the last coin in Illini's linup as at least 66+.

just sayin'
Coppercolor

djdilliodon · August 26, 2011 3:46AM

<<

BTW, just polished the slab last night. Looks like new

And if any coin could go MS66+BN, it's this one. >>

That coin is a knock out!!!!!

illini420 · August 26, 2011 8:59AM

Yeah, renomedphys' 66BN is definitely a pretty one too! Maybe we should find all 10 of the 66BN VDBs and do a bulk regrade

Here's a better pic of the last 66BN from my post above that I had Todd take last month.

Coins911 · August 26, 2011 11:33AM

Hear those crickets?

Coppercolor · August 26, 2011 11:07PM

<< Hear those crickets? >>

Hmmm, perhaps Mr. Hall hasn't seen the post.

For the record, I'm all about sending a pile of coins in to see what happens. It's half the fun and gets the heart rate up!

But if the determination has already been made that no coin will 66+/67BN, and maybe made thirty years ago, then I would rather spend my money sending in OTHER coins.

foodude · August 26, 2011 11:54PM

I believe, a few years back, HRH stated something about not believing a BN coin could/should be 67 or higher.

I recall there was a question about this in the Q & A section of this forum I few years ago (I may have been the one with that question- I had a really nice BN matte proof Lincoln in PR66). Unfortunately it seems we are no longer able to search old posts from that portion of the forum. I think the answer was no 67s or higher, but I may not remembering the answer correctly.

illini420 · August 27, 2011 1:01AM

I'm pretty sure there are 67BNs when it comes to proofs. But for business strike Lincoln Cents I believe they are forbidden. I bet they would give an MS66+BN to the right coin though.

PonyExpress8 · August 27, 2011 1:12AM

A good question. Since there is no longer a color guarantee it would seem there likely could be a change made here. A uncirculated brown copper coin that has booming luster, strong strike, unmarked surfaces, excellent eye appeal and is otherwise perfect except it has aged to brown would seem to be a candidate for any MS grade.

I always thought this arbitrary max of MS66 made questionable sense.

But many of us have been lobbying for years for a PL designation on half dollars and lower denominations. And that doesn't happen either.

Maybe it's time to rethink both of these topics.

tahoe98 · August 28, 2011 3:40AM

<<

BTW, just polished the slab last night. Looks like new

And if any coin could go MS66+BN, it's this one. >>

...me thinks that is more like a 66 blue!

Coins911 · August 28, 2011 3:56AM

Still hearing crickets

66RB · September 1, 2011 1:09AM

Hey Jeff, what I remember homerunhall saying differs slightly from other's recollections.

I remember him saying that 'when, and if, PCGS sees a Lincoln cent that deserves a 67BN grade, they will grade it that. It is certainly possible. However, to date, PCGS has not seen a coin that deserved a 67BN grade.'

Of course, it's hard to say exactly what his stance was, but I can't imagine him laying it down that there was a ceiling of 66BN.

Maybe they're waiting for my 1934

Tdec1000 · September 1, 2011 1:25AM

<< 

<<

BTW, just polished the slab last night. Looks like new

And if any coin could go MS66+BN, it's this one. >>

...me thinks that is more like a 66 blue!

>>

Looks like one that I used to own.. Mine was in an old Anacs white slab 66 bn!

Coppercolor · September 1, 2011 4:26AM

<< Hey Jeff, what I remember homerunhall saying differs slightly from other's recollections.

I remember him saying that 'when, and if, PCGS sees a Lincoln cent that deserves a 67BN grade, they will grade it that. It is certainly possible. However, to date, PCGS has not seen a coin that deserved a 67BN grade.'

Of course, it's hard to say exactly what his stance was, but I can't imagine him laying it down that there was a ceiling of 66BN.

Maybe they're waiting for my 1934

>>

OK, Ok, uncle, you can send me your 34' as well. It must be very very irritating having a coin that is such a mis-match in your Red/Brown Collection. Dispatch of this problem by mailing it to me at once and I will hold it in my vault with the kryptonite!

Thank you for recalling David's words. They are encouraging and are going to cost me about $300 in grading fees, just to begin with.

You sure you and Renomedphys don't want to send me your coins to go into this monster submission. I should ask Tortuga for his 12S and some of his other 66Bn's.

Maybe we could broker the submission through Andy......if he'd be willing ?????? Hmmm, maybe that's the idea.

Jeff

Groiny · September 1, 2011 4:42AM

hey , Coppercolordude ;

I will send you any coin, any color , any price .....................

you just let me know

I am not sure how to tell you , but I don't want you finding out other then from me ..............

errrr........., a certain MS -66 FBL coin you sold me awhile back got an ..........urrrrrr..............ummmmmm....,

well it got a kind of a wee bit of a ..............uuhhhhh ...........a teenie-tiny, hardly noticeable at all , sort of ....................ummmm

........a bump in grade

Coppercolor · September 1, 2011 2:41PM

Hey Groiny,
Why you milking up my tidy little brown lincoln lovefest with all that Franklin chatter?

For real though, like I said in my PM, you are long overdue a change in the winds and now I hope they blew a big FAT 67FBL your way. Please tell me I'm right.

I assume it's the 52P but the 54P wouldn't surprise me either? ??

Coppercolordude

PS You sayin' there's some brown beautiful toned copper lieing around. After that first batch I can't imagine you held anything back. Monster city!

Groiny · September 2, 2011 2:27AM

..............I checked ,.the cupboard is bare - nothing left to send you .........

but you know I always have my eyes peeled for you

after 25 years of submitting , maybe close to a thousand coins ............. I finally am blessed with not 1 , but two MS 67 PCGS Franklins !
as I have said previously : hell is about to freeze over

Coins911 · September 2, 2011 3:07AM

crickets.........

Mr. David Hall, will PCGS grade a lincoln 67BN? How about 66+BN?

Comments

Leave a Comment