1925 lexingtons, were most of these dipped?

devious · July 12, 2011 3:13AM

I've been purchasing original lexingtons in their original pine boxes. I feel like I am starting a grade set for the boxes. Anyhow, were most of these coins that I see for sale immediately removed from the pine box and stored someway else? I see many blast white examples that hardly resemble anything the boxes would have done to them as my examples are original and definitely come with the toning that occurred within the box.

With the somewhat ugly toning, would PCGS grade the coin down despite otherwise high technical merits? I have a really nice high grade example, but the toning is hideous. A quick dip would surely remove it all, but I've only dipped proof coins with haze. And feel that's all I could ever do. I just wanted an idea whether or not folks believe that these mostly have already been dipped. There are just so many examples that lack the pine box toning I'm becoming quite familiar with.

Thanks in advance.

Aaron

My best looking box and worst looking box for show (the best box has the nicest toning on coin! But the technical merits of the coin are substandard. The ugly box has the ugliest toning (the coin), but the technical merits of the coin are higher. Pretty silly really!) The coins have since been removed from the boxes. I didn't get a picture of the ugly toned coin in the ugly box, sorry!

commoncents05 · July 12, 2011 3:19AM

Original coins kept in their pine box will have a milky green looking toning. I stopped in a B&M who had just bought one, and I went back to buy it, and he had dipped it in the meantime.

-Paul

devious · July 12, 2011 3:26AM

<< Original coins kept in their pine box will have a milky green looking toning. I stopped in a B&M who had just bought one, and I went back to buy it, and he had dipped it in the meantime.

-Paul >>

Really? I guess I had to ask because many of the high grade examples don't appear to have any of that box tone left. That's too bad... How was the box's condition?

JamesMurray · July 12, 2011 3:31AM

I'll dig mine out the vaults this afternoon Devious for a photo , i seem to think it does have some colour but not what i'd call toning , it's not blast white anyway. I don't have the little box for it , i bought it in England from a well respected dealer i've used for years now. I think i got my Pilgrim from him too.

seateddime · July 12, 2011 3:32AM

Many commend come in sulfur based holders creating wild colors.

These come original with a funky brown if they are original.

Still original has to count for something.

erickso1 · July 12, 2011 3:36AM

<< Many commend come in sulfur based holders creating wild colors.

These come original with a funky brown if they are original.

Still original has to count for something. >>

Sounds like a bit of a catch 22.

rainbowroosie · July 12, 2011 7:49AM

I love Lex's and have looked for them for years. Usually, the toning is nasty to not too bad. Years ago Larry S. opened what was likely the best toned roll ever. I think he made numerous 66s and a 67 coin when standards were tight...each had well above average color...he offered many on his site...maybe a real commem guy can chime in on this story and add to it, or correct me.

rawmorgan · July 12, 2011 7:56AM

<< Original coins kept in their pine box will have a milky green looking toning. I stopped in a B&M who had just bought one, and I went back to buy it, and he had dipped it in the meantime.

-Paul >>

I'm so sorry.

devious · August 15, 2011 5:50AM

I guess I understand why they dipped them. Apparently, my two lexingtons that were purchased that were really nice examples had pvc residue. Not to mention, they both spent 72 hours bathing in acetone. I guess I don't understand. Are the pine boxes they were issued in PVC capable? But in other news, my barber's 1c find in a bank bag (1913) made MS65RB, and I made a 66 1948 BTW. Disappointed in the Lexingtons. They both came back with the PVC residue. Any idea on why? And I do clean my acetone glass prior to a new bath. Kind of frustrating. Guess it's back to the drawing board or...maybe...I guess I should get rewarded with a grade bump as Mr. Blay states and dip them?

shorecoll · August 15, 2011 6:59AM

The PVC didn't come from the boxes, they either spent some time in flips or PCGS misdiagnosed the original green toning as PVC residue. I'd show them to one of the experts, first. FYI, original toning won't come off in acetone but PVC will. If you rinse them in acetone again and they are still green, it's toning. As a last resort I'd dip them (gasp!!!) and then put them back in the boxes.

TomB · August 15, 2011 7:26AM

Lexingtons can have PVC residue from storage in containers that are capable of producing PVC. However, the original boxes do not produce PVC. They do, though, contain acids from the wood that can make the coins appear a milky green or to have green spots of various hues on them that can be mistaken for PVC.

golfer72 · August 15, 2011 9:27AM

<< Lexingtons can have PVC residue from storage in containers that are capable of producing PVC. However, the original boxes do not produce PVC. They do, though, contain acids from the wood that can make the coins appear a milky green or to have green spots of various hues on them that can be mistaken for PVC. >>

Shouldnt the "experts" grading these coins understand this?

devious · August 15, 2011 2:58PM

<< Lexingtons can have PVC residue from storage in containers that are capable of producing PVC. However, the original boxes do not produce PVC. They do, though, contain acids from the wood that can make the coins appear a milky green or to have green spots of various hues on them that can be mistaken for PVC. >>

That's all I thought of it. I did the acetone soak for 72 hours on each one. Should I do it longer? The only real way to gauge interest on these is to post pictures of them when they come back and ask for an opinion. Maybe there is residue, but nothing I could see as anymore than ugly green toning. I could be wrong!

RGT · August 16, 2011 1:05AM

If there is heavy PVC on the coin it may have saturated your acetone, depending on how much you used. It might be better to soak overnight, then change out the acetone. Repeat as needed. Of course if you can't see any difference after a couple of good soaks it may be just the tone.

I have an MS64 in an old rattler that has the original box tone. I had an NGC64 that had semi-prooflike surfaces but it looked dipped so I got rid of it. The box tone isn't the most attractive but is sure beats out a dip and strip example.

Kove · August 16, 2011 1:44AM

Many of the Lexington's found in pine boxes today are not the original coins that were in the box. For years, high-grade Lex's have been removed from the boxes and slabbed. A lower-grade, often dipped piece is put into the box and sold.

Chemicals in the sap of the pine box impart a streaky toning that is particular to Lexingtons. Most collectors simply do not like the look of original Lexingtons, so they tend to get dipped.

Several months ago, I bought an obviously original Lex in a box from an old collector at a local show. The coin was whitish and streaky, with brown where the rims touched the wood, but great luster still showed through. It sounds ugly, but I thought it was beautiful. PCGS agreed, grading it MS 66. However, CAC wouldn't sticker the coin. As it is very much a technical 66 I can only guess that they didn't like the toning. They did sticker an obviously dipped 66 that I also sent in.

I put a raw 62/63 coin in the pine box, and it easily sold to another dealer.

renomedphys · August 16, 2011 2:24AM

<< I put a raw 62/63 coin in the pine box, and it easily sold to another dealer. >>

I can see how this conversation would progress:

Dealer: Is this the original coin that came with the box?
Seller: Perhaps it is. How should I know?
Dealer: Many of these have been replaced.
Seller: Really? Hmmm...

devious · August 16, 2011 2:36AM

<< Many of the Lexington's found in pine boxes today are not the original coins that were in the box. For years, high-grade Lex's have been removed from the boxes and slabbed. A lower-grade, often dipped piece is put into the box and sold.

Chemicals in the sap of the pine box impart a streaky toning that is particular to Lexingtons. Most collectors simply do not like the look of original Lexingtons, so they tend to get dipped.

Several months ago, I bought an obviously original Lex in a box from an old collector at a local show. The coin was whitish and streaky, with brown where the rims touched the wood, but great luster still showed through. It sounds ugly, but I thought it was beautiful. PCGS agreed, grading it MS 66. However, CAC wouldn't sticker the coin. As it is very much a technical 66 I can only guess that they didn't like the toning. They did sticker an obviously dipped 66 that I also sent in.

I put a raw 62/63 coin in the pine box, and it easily sold to another dealer. >>

Well, when they arrive here, I'll make my attempts at getting the photographs of the coins. They look original to me. That is, not dipped and replaced. While they may have been replaced, one of them looked like a 66 or higher despite its ugly toning.

I understand that most people hate the original look. And again, I believe these to be original. They are not pretty by any means. One even happens to have a finger print on it that fits in with the ugly toning. It is my goal to build a high grade commemorative set from original coins, even if they are ugly. This just puts a temporary damper on my Lexington since I was going to take the best of the two and keep it for my set.

The PVC thing is just funny. Out of fifteen coins, only the Lexingtons came back as such. And they did not share their acetone soak. And it just seemed rather coincidental and I thought what in the world could be in those boxes? I admit it, I don't really like the look of the Lexingtons neither, however, I'd rather have these ugly original than any of those dipped "monsters" I have seen. The goal isn't necessarily beauty in the set, but original pieces. Most of my coins I have found are very beautiful. Guess that's the advantage of not every one having come in a pine box.

Thanks for your input, Kove! Always appreciated!

Kove · August 16, 2011 3:07AM

<< 

<< I put a raw 62/63 coin in the pine box, and it easily sold to another dealer. >>

I can see how this conversation would progress:

Dealer: Is this the original coin that came with the box?
Seller: Perhaps it is. How should I know?
Dealer: Many of these have been replaced.
Seller: Really? Hmmm... >>

Many such conversations could take place today, with:
-"Original" double mint sets (surely no beautiful toners have been popped out of the cardboard)
-"Original" bank-wrapped rolls of silver dollars (surely no one has picked through for the >63 coins)
-"Original" early 1950s proof sets in boxes (surely the cameos haven't been picked out)
-Commemorative exonumia with the original coins (surely the high-grade coins haven't been picked through)

With people picking through this stuff since at least the early 1960s, folks just have to look at this stuff with eyes wide open. Yes, these deals still exist, such as with the Guttag coins, but finds like that are scarce.

Kove · August 16, 2011 3:11AM

I'm with you, Devious. Fully original is the way to go, and it's a great added twist on building a nice collection. I look forward to the pics!

shorecoll · August 16, 2011 3:48AM

No offense to our hosts or even ATS, but commems are the most inconsistently graded coins. IMHO. If you don't believe it go to a dealer that has a stack of BTWs in a variety of grades, cover up the grades and try to sort them by grade. I wouldn't be surprised if BTW's are just assigned a random grade from 63 to 66.

devious · August 20, 2011 12:06AM

<< I'm with you, Devious. Fully original is the way to go, and it's a great added twist on building a nice collection. I look forward to the pics! >>

I got the coins back. Still no sign of PVC. I'll take pictures tomorrow. I'm on my way out to do some camping. Might I also add that the ugliest of the two Lexingtons looks like a solid 67 or higher. Now that WOULD have been *very* cool. The other one, I'd say about a 64. But this PVC I tell ya

1925 lexingtons, were most of these dipped?

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