Options
Collecting Gem Jefferson Nickels
mrearlygold
Posts: 17,858 ✭✭✭
Who is the maven of Jefferson Nickels? I remember a long long time ago a step club ( no not that one 
) that I think sent out a newsletter but we're going back decades here so I don't know what's available nowadays, hence the thread.
Is there a good book or books on Jefferson Nickels including the proofs? Are there any complete sets that have gone to auction that are worth talking about, or any that are well known ?
What do you use for pricing on these coins, business strikes and proofs?
In short, everything that you need to know about collecting Jefferson nickels and if you think it prudent to throw in any investment speculations, have at it.
Thank you
) that I think sent out a newsletter but we're going back decades here so I don't know what's available nowadays, hence the thread. Is there a good book or books on Jefferson Nickels including the proofs? Are there any complete sets that have gone to auction that are worth talking about, or any that are well known ?
What do you use for pricing on these coins, business strikes and proofs?
In short, everything that you need to know about collecting Jefferson nickels and if you think it prudent to throw in any investment speculations, have at it.
Thank you
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
0
Comments
I'm pretty sure the Full Step Nickel Club is still around.
Successful BST Transactions!SIconbuster, Meltdown, Mission16, slothman2000, RGjohn, braddick, au58lover, allcoinsrule, commemdude, gerard, lablade, PCcoins, greencopper, kaz, tydye, cucamongacoin, mkman123, SeaEaglecoins, Doh!, AnkurJ, Airplanenut, ArizonaJack, JJM,Tee135,LordMarcovan, Swampboy, piecesofme, Ahrensdad,
Not really looking for much these days but if I were, it might be a toner.
Dave Andreas
FSNC, PO Box 571583
Salt Lake City, UT 84157
Two sided gem Jeffersons are tough and almost impossible with Full Steps except for a few
of the early dates and silver issues. Full Steps are almost impossible for many of the middle
dates. Some of the '65 and later Jeffersons are tough even in chUnc.
It's a great series and very underappreciated.
The FSNC puts out a great paper called The Portico and have been reprinting some of the
early papers from the original club.
<< <i>Who is the maven of Jefferson Nickels? I remember a long long time ago a step club ( no not that one
Is there a good book or books on Jefferson Nickels including the proofs? Are there any complete sets that have gone to auction that are worth talking about, or any that are well known ?
What do you use for pricing on these coins, business strikes and proofs?
In short, everything that you need to know about collecting Jefferson nickels and if you think it prudent to throw in any investment speculations, have at it.
Thank you >>
THE maven? Couldn't tell you, but when BigDowgie, TexasNationals, Stephunter, OldEastside, Lehigh96, leothelion, cladking, and a few other regular posters (sorry if I missed you) post about Jeffs I read what they have to say. Lots of knowledge here. As cladking mentioned, the full step club is back in action and releasing new electronic issues of the portico. I am working on a website for that, but due to a recent house fire it's slow.
As for books --
The Jefferson Nickel Analyst by Bernard Nagengast -- buy from ebay seller kointainer and you get it autographed straight from the author. With a postage refund (nice touch).
The Official Red Book: A Guide Book of Buffalo and Jefferson Nickels: Complete Source for History, Grading, and Values -- pretty good book, but rehashes a lot from the Nagengast book (cited heavily).
Neither of these books spends enough time on proofs IMO, so you might want to supplement with the rick tomaskas book, but there is nothing that is jefferson proof specific there.
Cherrypickers.
There are Jefferson double die and die variety books, but that is not my specialty so I don't own them and can't comment, but know they exist. Maybe someone else has an opinion about those.
Pricing -- This is a tough one and I am only speaking about holdered coins here. Most stuff post 1970 will tend to go at a steep discount to pcgs guide. You really need to watch some auctions to get a feel for it. A good example might be the 2008-D MS66FS coin. 350 in the price guide. But when I saw them selling they were going for sub 100 bucks each. Proofs will also go for well below guide with some exceptions (50's proofs tend to be closer to guide). Nice war nickels seem to trade the closest to guide. The 30's and 40's also closer. For some years, though, were steps are next to impossible guide can actually be too low. Really the only way to get a feel is to check auction records.
I have an investment speculation -- don't do it. I love the series, love to collect it. I try to buy really nice coins. But I doubt that I'm going to see any great return on the money.
I was'nt aware that they moved to Utah, guess it's time to renew my due's,
Anyhow, theres a lot of registry sets that are amazing, the Corso, Overby
and Strom set's come to mind off the top of my head and can be accessed
through the set registry here, take a look, I like the Corso set because
he has pictures of each coin, and it's NO# 1.
The FSNC is more than worth the dues, for the monthly info you get, I
still have everyone of my green guides, and I would'nt lend them to anybody.
Plus there are a ton of guy's here on these board's that are worth there weight
in gold when it comes to there knowledge of Jeffies, just mention Jefferson
in the thread title and you'll fish em out.
Steve
Yup that's what I was thinking.
I like em. But and I hate to make it sound like I'm trying to change the thread from an informative one to a political one. I am not. But over the many years of doing this I'm drawn towards historical periods and things that interest me. It's one of the reasons you will rarely see a lincoln on my website and I was into lincolns in 1980! It's also another reason why I got deep into the earlies 20 years ago. So I like Jeffersons because I like what Jefferson did and I do think he gets little respect in comparison to what many other presidents get. Somehow I have to believe that interest in these coins will grow in time but I felt the same way about Franklins and....well .......
Maybe another thread to see what motivates people to collect the coins they collect. Is it design? The history and do you actually read about the history or just accept it for what you've been told, the person or persons/effigies on the coins themselves, the artistry, any other meanings? It's all part of numismatics afterall.
Oops
Wife has called to advise it's close to dinner and tonight is a quick one of Kielbasi, potatoes, a vegetable, horseradish ( melt your eyeballs hot ! ), Polish rye bread and I'm outta here for a little while, enough to scarf a ring of that kielbasi. Blue Seal in Chicopee Ma sells a fresh kielbasi and if the only kielbasi you are familiar with is the smoked hillshire farms type ( which is pretty dang good I will admit but it ain't fresh), you're missing out on something really good
Be back soon but for now
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Well, it's me!
NO! Kidding aside, if you do a search on Bern Nagengast, you might come to the conclusion the man is a genius!
He is the author of the book, the Jefferson Nickel Analyst.
A historian on Heating, Refrigerating and Air-Conditioning Engineers (ASHRAE)
And owner of Kointainer that makes coin holders.
I've been fortunate to have talked with Bern on occasion over the years. He's a very knowledgeable man to listen to. That's right, I usually don't have much to add, I just listen and enjoy the info on Jefferson nickels that he shares with me.
I do have plans to contact him again concerning a new variety in the 1982-P Reverse of 1977, how they produced that coin and if it's reasonable to think a 1982/1980 or a 1982/1981 exist.
Leo
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
I can only suggest the usual, buy the books, check out the pictures on the various Top Registry Sets and look at a bunch of coins! I like Jeffs because you can still assemble a great set with moderate funds and a little time. You don't need to (unless your heart desires) going after those tough full steppers and varieties. You can still do a little Cherry Pickin' if you keep at it!
There have been a few sets that have been auctioned off and yes, the prices on most have been below PCGS Price Guides. However, too many of the coins seem to be from the early full step Jefferson days and have questionable complete steps. The FS Jefferson collector community has raised the bar on what "full steps" is supposed to be. While the holder says one thing, the coin says another. You will always see premiums paid for superior, fully struck, full step coins.
There have been a few sets that have been auctioned off and yes, the prices on most have been below PCGS Price Guides. However, too many of the coins seem to be from the early full step Jefferson days and have questionable complete steps. The FS Jefferson collector community has raised the bar on what "full steps" is supposed to be. While the holder says one thing, the coin says another. You will always see premiums paid for superior, fully struck, full step coins.
Can you provide some examples (pics) of "the early full step Jefferson" days that are graded by the TPG's (pcgs & ngc) that are in registry sets, along with what the current
un-official standards you are referring to are (Pics).
This will allow all of us to look past what the two top tier TPGS say when they encapsulate these Jeff's as FS !
Steve
Does the word "Compradore" lend any flavor or significance for you on this topic?
<< <i>Mingot, thanks for the shout out! I'm humbled by some of the others you mentioned. After the Godfather (Bern), you can place Leo as the top dog!
I can only suggest the usual, buy the books, check out the pictures on the various Top Registry Sets and look at a bunch of coins! I like Jeffs because you can still assemble a great set with moderate funds and a little time. You don't need to (unless your heart desires) going after those tough full steppers and varieties. You can still do a little Cherry Pickin' if you keep at it!
There have been a few sets that have been auctioned off and yes, the prices on most have been below PCGS Price Guides. However, too many of the coins seem to be from the early full step Jefferson days and have questionable complete steps. The FS Jefferson collector community has raised the bar on what "full steps" is supposed to be. While the holder says one thing, the coin says another. You will always see premiums paid for superior, fully struck, full step coins. >>
Big Dawg, I couldn't agree more!
If any Jefferson nickel collector has had his head in the hunt for certified high quality coins over the last nine years, he would have seen a thousand of these early graded Jeffs. Taking notes on the strikes, grade conditions and steps and be able to draw their own conclusions about many of those coins. I have many of those coin pictures downloaded on my computer from past sales by B&M, Heritage, from several of the collections that were sold but I'm not about to start uploading them here. The point is moot and the information I have is for my personal use. Those who haven't been following this series over the years and want to know the in and outs to this series need to start looking at a few hundred coins. When a collector has done his homework, he'll answer a few of his silly questions along the way.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>I think the 42-D in gem+ is a little tougher than the 39-D. But I've thought this for years and the price guides don't agree.
Steve >>
Hey, another Jefferson Steve! (refer to the Steve thread)
What you say may be true at some point but I haven't had much luck with the strike of the 39-D as I've had with the 42-D.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Does the word "Compradore" lend any flavor or significance for you on this topic?
No, I don't care where the examples come from.......I would just like the difference by example......
When a collector has done his homework, he'll answer a few of his silly questions along the way.
really....
Below are two PCGS 1952-S coins. I consider this a low-Pop coin, as there are less than 100 with full step designation. They were both graded a while ago, but you clearly can differentiate the quility of the steps. My guess would be that over half of these coins are less than desirable in the full step designation, as I have see numerous of them. So, you were a knowledgeable, serious Jefferson collector and both of these coins came up in an auction. Assume the other quality of the coins were similar. My guess would be that one would sell way below PCGS Prices Guide and the other at or above. Which would you go after? Another question to ponder is, would you go after the top pictured coin if it were a 64FS or the bottom if it were a 65FS? Low-Pop coins with solid steps will always hold their value.
I wish to apologize for any misconceptions for my Compradore reference. The set was one of the finest assempbled and should be commended. However, it also contained coins from the early days of "full step" designation by PCGS. This was the point I attempted to make.
summed up with those few words is the problem with this series as it's currently collected in Mint State...........................i only see one Full Step coin pictured.
keets - Yes, two 1952-S's. I rest my case.
<< <i>
<< <i>Who is the maven of Jefferson Nickels? I remember a long long time ago a step club ( no not that one
Is there a good book or books on Jefferson Nickels including the proofs? Are there any complete sets that have gone to auction that are worth talking about, or any that are well known ?
What do you use for pricing on these coins, business strikes and proofs?
In short, everything that you need to know about collecting Jefferson nickels and if you think it prudent to throw in any investment speculations, have at it.
Thank you >>
THE maven? Couldn't tell you, but when BigDowgie, TexasNationals, Stephunter, OldEastside, Lehigh96, leothelion, cladking, and a few other regular posters (sorry if I missed you) post about Jeffs I read what they have to say. Lots of knowledge here. As cladking mentioned, the full step club is back in action and releasing new electronic issues of the portico. I am working on a website for that, but due to a recent house fire it's slow.
As for books --
The Jefferson Nickel Analyst by Bernard Nagengast -- buy from ebay seller kointainer and you get it autographed straight from the author. With a postage refund (nice touch).
The Official Red Book: A Guide Book of Buffalo and Jefferson Nickels: Complete Source for History, Grading, and Values -- pretty good book, but rehashes a lot from the Nagengast book (cited heavily).
Neither of these books spends enough time on proofs IMO, so you might want to supplement with the rick tomaskas book, but there is nothing that is jefferson proof specific there.
Cherrypickers.
There are Jefferson double die and die variety books, but that is not my specialty so I don't own them and can't comment, but know they exist. Maybe someone else has an opinion about those.
Pricing -- This is a tough one and I am only speaking about holdered coins here. Most stuff post 1970 will tend to go at a steep discount to pcgs guide. You really need to watch some auctions to get a feel for it. A good example might be the 2008-D MS66FS coin. 350 in the price guide. But when I saw them selling they were going for sub 100 bucks each. Proofs will also go for well below guide with some exceptions (50's proofs tend to be closer to guide). Nice war nickels seem to trade the closest to guide. The 30's and 40's also closer. For some years, though, were steps are next to impossible guide can actually be too low. Really the only way to get a feel is to check auction records.
I have an investment speculation -- don't do it. I love the series, love to collect it. I try to buy really nice coins. But I doubt that I'm going to see any great return on the money. >>
you left out that Methuselah and I started the very first Jefferson club, you should be ashamed for leaving me off the list
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
BigDowgie
Nice examples, thank you
i'm from Cleveland, i know kielbasa, you're no kielbasa Hillshire Farms!!
I would strongly advise investing in this series only if you're knowledgeable enough to buy the right coins. How most collectors failed/screwed up with this series is accepting coins that were under-struck with lots of details missing in Jefferson's portrait and the Monticello building. They also put too much faith into a very small area of the coin. Who else does that outside of a series that has these intricate designations. The completion of the steps is the icing on the cake of a fully detailed Jefferson nickel. Steps are not the only thing about Jefferson nickels, it's much more complicated than that. I have 80 of those fully detailed Jeffs and will continue my search for them.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
You've gotten alot of advice about putting together a world class set of Jeffersons. I can't speak to that, but I can say that Jeffersons are awesome because there is something for everyone. First of all, since we see Jeffersons in change everyday, we tend to overlook the beauty of them, but if you get one that is really nicely struck and free of bagmarks you'll find yourself staring at it alot. The sculpture in that coin is underrated. The metal in the Jefferson is unique, so it has a cool looking glean to it...reminds me of polished aluminum. It also tones differently, lending itself to unusual toning colors.
As far as books go, the advice you've been given is spot on. There are some great observations in those books that is a real shortcut on your learning curve.
Another thing I like about Jeffersons is that you can be at the "top of the market" with a fraction of the outlay. I mean, $300 spent on some coins gives you just a garden variety coin that won't even pique the interest of the more serious collector. Not so of Jeffersons...you can get kind of deep into the Pop numbers for that money.
Regarding the '39D vs. the '42D. The '42Ds are better struck when you find them in mint state, but after hunting them for a while, I think they are harder to find in mint state than the '39D. Literature alludes to the same thing. IMHO, the prices of the '42D should be higher in mint state, but that depends on how high you're going. What throws a wrench into these works is the fact that the '39D has two different reverses.
The last thing I like about the Jeffersons is that there are a bunch of really cool varieties that seem cheap compared to how dramatic they are. Doubling that would be super expensive if it was on a cent or even a dime is somehow inexpensive on the nickel. Thats very odd when you consider that nickel is a harder metal, so dies with errors on them likely wore out faster than those minting copper or silver...so there should be less of those errors. Only the lower popularity of the keeps them down and that seems to be changing.
And finally, regarding the price of high dollar sets. I think that the Jeffersons probably bounce around in price with the economy. Right now, there is a lot of money being spent by coin collectors on gold and silver due to the bandwagon effect caused they their increase in price. The more coin collectors spend on gold and silver, the less they spend on the non-precious metal series. Plus, we all feel poorer when the stock market takes a hit, so we buy less coins in uncertain times. The net result is that now is a good time to buy coins like Jeffersons precisely because nobody is buying them. I feel they'll bounce back nicely when the economy improves and less people chase gold.
Westy Steve
<< <i>if the only kielbasi you are familiar with is the smoked hillshire farms type
i'm from Cleveland, i know kielbasa, you're no kielbasa Hillshire Farms!!
You got that right Al
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870