Options
~ John J. Ford's famed 1927-D $20 Saint-Gaudens browse floor incident ~
Broadstruck
Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
I've heard different versions of this story over the years and figured the one directly from Ford would make for a good read on here... Enjoy! 
1927-D DOUBLE EAGLE
Except for the 1907 extra high-relief proof and the 1933, which is regarded as contraband by the U.S. Treasury, the 1927-D is the key date in the Saint-Gaudens double eagle series. Ford tells a story in which he searches for a '27-D for a customer wishing to complete his set:
On the first day of the 1966 Chicago ANA convention, I walked into the bourse, and there was this firm with a couple of people behind the counter. I looked into their case and they had a 1927-D $20. 1 picked up the coin and studied it very carefully and noticed certain characteristics on the reverse. I went around the bourse and asked everybody if they had a 1927 Philadelphia coin. I must have looked at 20 of them. Finally, I found one with the identical reverse of the 1927-D, which made me very suspicious of the 1927-D In the Congress Hotel, where the convention was, there was a pharmacy in the lobby. I went down and bought a small bottle of acetone. So I went back to the guys who had the '27-D and with the bottle of acetone between my knees underneath the table I asked again to look at the coin. I took the stopper out of the bottle and moistened my finger with the acetone, and kept rubbing it on the D. Finally I had a little tiny D on my right index finger. So I laid the coin on the counter with my left hand, put the stopper into the bottle with my left hand, put it on the floor, and said to the guy behind the table,
"I have a problem." he said, '
What is it? What is it? We're very busy."
I said, "My problem is with your '27-D $20 here.
Here on my finger is the D that was on it. What do I do?"
The other guy said instantly: "Quick, get an envelope and save the D!"
So they took a two-by-two coin envelope and slid the D in it. I excused myself and left. I never heard any more about the incident.
1927-D DOUBLE EAGLE
Except for the 1907 extra high-relief proof and the 1933, which is regarded as contraband by the U.S. Treasury, the 1927-D is the key date in the Saint-Gaudens double eagle series. Ford tells a story in which he searches for a '27-D for a customer wishing to complete his set:
On the first day of the 1966 Chicago ANA convention, I walked into the bourse, and there was this firm with a couple of people behind the counter. I looked into their case and they had a 1927-D $20. 1 picked up the coin and studied it very carefully and noticed certain characteristics on the reverse. I went around the bourse and asked everybody if they had a 1927 Philadelphia coin. I must have looked at 20 of them. Finally, I found one with the identical reverse of the 1927-D, which made me very suspicious of the 1927-D In the Congress Hotel, where the convention was, there was a pharmacy in the lobby. I went down and bought a small bottle of acetone. So I went back to the guys who had the '27-D and with the bottle of acetone between my knees underneath the table I asked again to look at the coin. I took the stopper out of the bottle and moistened my finger with the acetone, and kept rubbing it on the D. Finally I had a little tiny D on my right index finger. So I laid the coin on the counter with my left hand, put the stopper into the bottle with my left hand, put it on the floor, and said to the guy behind the table,
"I have a problem." he said, '
What is it? What is it? We're very busy."
I said, "My problem is with your '27-D $20 here.
Here on my finger is the D that was on it. What do I do?"
The other guy said instantly: "Quick, get an envelope and save the D!"
So they took a two-by-two coin envelope and slid the D in it. I excused myself and left. I never heard any more about the incident.
To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
0
Comments
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
<< <i>Reminds me of a 16-D dime in a certain unnamed slab (I don't want to get sued) where the D mintmark came off and was rattling around loose inside the slab. When it was returned to the dealer, he cracked the coin out and gave it back to the owner. >>
Was it one of the big two or a lesser slabbing enterprise?
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
https://greatcollections.com/Collections/1120/The-Keyman64-Mercury-Dime-Collection/2024-07-07
<< <i>So, what should we call these occurrences? Mintmark malfunctions?
Frauds exposed.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
<< <i>Reminds me of a 16-D dime in a certain unnamed slab (I don't want to get sued) where the D mintmark came off and was rattling around loose inside the slab. When it was returned to the dealer, he cracked the coin out and gave it back to the owner. >>
If I remember correctly, that was at the BRNA show at Dalton GA.
Gary
<< <i>My all time favorite (and true) story in numismatics is of the occasion upon which the very refined Mrs R. Henry Norweb visited The New Netherlands Coin Company while Walter Breen was in their employ. And how he left a partially eaten chocolate bar on a chair in which Mrs. Norweb sat while wearing her finest overcoat. And how no one dared utter a word to her upon the discovery as she alighted after conducting a purchase.
That is my other favorite!
Only three years later the same thing happened to me. Except I was only 16 years old and did not have the wisdom to handle it the way Ford did.
Here was my story. (Reposted from PCGS 2/27/2004)
<< <i>Friday February 27, 2004 12:25 AM
Subscribe to this thread Email this thread to someone User is online Send user a private message View thread in raw text format
Most embarrasing moment?
Went to a New York City coin dealer, long out of business back in 1969. (added note: he was located on Broadway between 49th and 50th Street on the eastern side of Broadway)
Wanted to buy a 1932-S quarter real bad. Found one in EF condition, gorgeous in late August 1969.
Price was too good to be true. Only problem was that the "S" accidentally fell off the coin and onto the floor as I was turning the coin over in my fingers for the 27th time.
Panicked and started looking for the tiny piece of metal (added note: ON THE FLOOR) that should not have been on the coin! As a 16 year old who worked at Gristedes Supermarket the entire hot summer on 48th Street and Madison Ave, this was supposed to be my big day.
Dealer accused me of damaging his 1932-S quarter and/or switching quarters on him. Can't remember now but I was very flustered and angry. Never went back, of course, and even though I left with all of my money and no coin, I began to wish for a slabbing grading and authentication system.
At least now if the "S" falls off the next 1932-S quarter, I can find it right in the slab? >>
<< <i>I've heard different versions of this story over the years and figured the one directly from Ford would make for a good read on here... Enjoy!
1927-D DOUBLE EAGLE
Except for the 1907 extra high-relief proof and the 1933, which is regarded as contraband by the U.S. Treasury, the 1927-D is the key date in the Saint-Gaudens double eagle series. Ford tells a story in which he searches for a '27-D for a customer wishing to complete his set:
On the first day of the 1966 Chicago ANA convention, I walked into the bourse, and there was this firm with a couple of people behind the counter. I looked into their case and they had a 1927-D $20. 1 picked up the coin and studied it very carefully and noticed certain characteristics on the reverse. I went around the bourse and asked everybody if they had a 1927 Philadelphia coin. I must have looked at 20 of them. Finally, I found one with the identical reverse of the 1927-D, which made me very suspicious of the 1927-D In the Congress Hotel, where the convention was, there was a pharmacy in the lobby. I went down and bought a small bottle of acetone. So I went back to the guys who had the '27-D and with the bottle of acetone between my knees underneath the table I asked again to look at the coin. I took the stopper out of the bottle and moistened my finger with the acetone, and kept rubbing it on the D. Finally I had a little tiny D on my right index finger. So I laid the coin on the counter with my left hand, put the stopper into the bottle with my left hand, put it on the floor, and said to the guy behind the table,
"I have a problem." he said, '
What is it? What is it? We're very busy."
I said, "My problem is with your '27-D $20 here.
Here on my finger is the D that was on it. What do I do?"
The other guy said instantly: "Quick, get an envelope and save the D!"
So they took a two-by-two coin envelope and slid the D in it. I excused myself and left. I never heard any more about the incident. >>
I actually had a part in that story. My friend and one of my many mentors, Bill Wilkerson of Richmond, VA, now deceased, operated Modern Coin Co. He had the opportunity to purchase this coin from a dealer in Roanoke, VA. He asked me about it and I told him what my thoughts were and exactly where to sell it. He did the deal and sold the coin to Dan Messer of Coen-Messer in NYC and gave me a very nice commission, which I returned to him after this was discovered. Messer then sold the coin to Paramount Intl CC in Chicago. They were so proud of it that they took everything else out of their showcase and left it all by itself in the case. I was always under the impression that Robert R. Johnson of SF had condemned the coin, because of its appearance and his experience.
I had never heard of Ford and the acetone. It could be true, but I don't know for sure.
I firmly believe in numismatics as the world's greatest hobby, but recognize that this is a luxury and without collectors, we can all spend/melt our collections/inventories.
eBaystore
Many counterfeit and altered coins have been discovered in the ensuing years using just that; the appearance of one mint's coinage vs. another mint's coinage.
I firmly believe in numismatics as the world's greatest hobby, but recognize that this is a luxury and without collectors, we can all spend/melt our collections/inventories.
eBaystore
This is one of many he told (in the 1990 Legacy interview) that can not be validated.
Rare coins were not allowed to be handled "raw" even in 1966.
<< <i>You simply can't believe Ford's stories.
This is one of many he told (in the 1990 Legacy interview) that can not be validated.
Rare coins were not allowed to be handled "raw" even in 1966. >>
Previously I'd heard two other variations =
1.) It was dropped and the D fell off when it hit the browse floor.
2.) It was dropped and caught while in mid air and the D fell off once in hand.
The acetone version is new to me.