Only sorta complaining about Ebay --- :)
jmcu12
Posts: 2,452 ✭✭✭
For the last few auctions I was bidding on a coin and ‘mysteriously’ I win the item but only at my Max bid.
On one hand I bid that amount and won so I don’t have an issue, but it just seems coincidental/convenient that I am winning at my Max bid and no lower.
I know, it is a dumb complaint, just thought it seemed odd. Enjoy my horrible pictures of my latest Error coins!
On one hand I bid that amount and won so I don’t have an issue, but it just seems coincidental/convenient that I am winning at my Max bid and no lower.
I know, it is a dumb complaint, just thought it seemed odd. Enjoy my horrible pictures of my latest Error coins!
Awarded latest "YOU SUCK!": June 11, 2014
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Comments
<< <i>Coincidence... >>
Purely!
Oh yeah! Congratulationa on your insight as you obviously know your exact coin values!
The name is LEE!
<< <i>I used to think that 95% of ebay sellers shill bid their auctions. Now I think the number is higher. I recently sold an item and the guy told me he was very surprised it did not sell for closer to $400 and he had a snipe bid set at $450. It sold for under $300. I don't shill. He told me he thinks 100% of the larger sellers shill bid. I'll go with 99% to protect the innocent. >>
Sometimes I shake my head, and this is one of those times. 95%? 99%? I've bought over a hundred items via Ebay, and if I had to guess, maybe 3 had any kind of shill bidding and I didn't notice it. Most Ebayers snipe, so shilling is basically a waste of time. Shill sniping flat out doesn't work and risks winning quite a few items and then those transactions have to be cancelled, and relisted. For what?
There are several forum members that take consignments, and I doubt a single person that operates on this forum and takes consignments does any kind of shilling. So who is this 95% or 99%? A better question is what does it gain them when 80%+ of serious coin buyers snipe bid? Why waste so much time and energy and risk getting banned if caught? Probably half of the selling volume is done by 10% of the sellers. Why would those big sellers risk their accounts and spend so much time with phony accounts, software, or whatever, on an unethical endeavor has little probable benefit? Most big volume sellers don't have the time to manually shill up all the coins they sell. Hiring people to do it, doesn't make much financial sense because of the low payout. If they use automated shill software (something I've never even heard the rumor of), it becomes a wide conspiracy, easier to track.
Picked up an OGH merc dime (44-D 66FB) for $40 off ebay a couple nights ago, aint gonna complain too much about paying near market prices most of the time...
<< <i>I used to think that 95% of ebay sellers shill bid their auctions. Now I think the number is higher. I recently sold an item and the guy told me he was very surprised it did not sell for closer to $400 and he had a snipe bid set at $450. It sold for under $300. I don't shill. He told me he thinks 100% of the larger sellers shill bid. I'll go with 99% to protect the innocent. >>
I think that 95% of "all" sellers is probably a bit too high...but 99% of "larger sellers" I believe is accurate or very close to accurate - just my opinion.
Basically, anyone who has bought on ebay for a long time and has observed bidding patterns, and knows the market value and expected interest with certain collectibles, can usually notice the difference in shilled and non-shilled auctions.
BTW, there is a way for a shill to bid up an auction against a legit high bidder without going over the bid and having to cancel his last bid...it is done knowing the required ebay bid increments depending on the amount of the auction at the time...so I think the OP's insinuation is probably right.
My take on it is that the sellers do the bidding up (shill), and if it goes over, they do the second chance offer.
Made her mad, so she ignored them.
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<< <i>I used to think that 95% of ebay sellers shill bid their auctions. Now I think the number is higher. I recently sold an item and the guy told me he was very surprised it did not sell for closer to $400 and he had a snipe bid set at $450. It sold for under $300. I don't shill. He told me he thinks 100% of the larger sellers shill bid. I'll go with 99% to protect the innocent. >>
I think that 95% of "all" sellers is probably a bit too high...but 99% of "larger sellers" I believe is accurate or very close to accurate - just my opinion.
Basically, anyone who has bought on ebay for a long time and has observed bidding patterns, and knows the market value and expected interest with certain collectibles, can usually notice the difference in shilled and non-shilled auctions.
BTW, there is a way for a shill to bid up an auction against a legit high bidder without going over the bid and having to cancel his last bid...it is done knowing the required ebay bid increments depending on the amount of the auction at the time...so I think the OP's insinuation is probably right. >>
I really don't get it. Sniping eliminates the problem of shills. Do buyers of other collectables bid early? Does the op bid early? I thought that most serious coin buyers on Ebay snipe. It is mostly a very few old school types, and eBay newbies that will bid early in a true coin auction. Why would any volume seller waste time on shilling when that gains them nothing in most cases and if proved against them gets them banned, losing huge feedback bases? Do the shillers have special software to do it? Do they hire dozens of people to use dozens of phony accounts to shill on their hundred auctions ending in a one-hour window? If folks really suspect shilling, just shift to sniping or using a snipe program and the problem mostly goes away (also avoid the second-chance offers).
The accusations sound so far from the reality that I experience, it feels like I am in a parallel universe. If anything, I'd say my experience is the complete opposite. In the many thousands of coin auctions that I have watched and bid on over the years, maybe 5% have signs of shilling. I would categorize myself as a cynical person, with an always active radar for scammers, so you guys that are seeing 99% Ebay shill sellers must really be something else. I will say that there are a couple of coin sellers that I do find suspect, but they are the exceptions. And even there, it might be excused away, with the explanation that those sellers that have developed a loyal customer base pleased with the level of quality and service.
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<< <i>I used to think that 95% of ebay sellers shill bid their auctions. Now I think the number is higher. I recently sold an item and the guy told me he was very surprised it did not sell for closer to $400 and he had a snipe bid set at $450. It sold for under $300. I don't shill. He told me he thinks 100% of the larger sellers shill bid. I'll go with 99% to protect the innocent. >>
I think that 95% of "all" sellers is probably a bit too high...but 99% of "larger sellers" I believe is accurate or very close to accurate - just my opinion.
Basically, anyone who has bought on ebay for a long time and has observed bidding patterns, and knows the market value and expected interest with certain collectibles, can usually notice the difference in shilled and non-shilled auctions.
BTW, there is a way for a shill to bid up an auction against a legit high bidder without going over the bid and having to cancel his last bid...it is done knowing the required ebay bid increments depending on the amount of the auction at the time...so I think the OP's insinuation is probably right. >>
I really don't get it. Sniping eliminates the problem of shills. Do buyers of other collectables bid early? Does the op bid early? I thought that most serious coin buyers on Ebay snipe. It is mostly a very few old school types, and eBay newbies that will bid early in a true coin auction. Why would any volume seller waste time on shilling when that gains them nothing in most cases and if proved against them gets them banned, losing huge feedback bases? Do the shillers have special software to do it? Do they hire dozens of people to use dozens of phony accounts to shill on their hundred auctions ending in a one-hour window? If folks really suspect shilling, just shift to sniping or using a snipe program and the problem mostly goes away (also avoid the second-chance offers).
The accusations sound so far from the reality that I experience, it feels like I am in a parallel universe. If anything, I'd say my experience is the complete opposite. In the many thousands of coin auctions that I have watched and bid on over the years, maybe 5% have signs of shilling. I would categorize myself as a cynical person, with an always active radar for scammers, so you guys that are seeing 99% Ebay shill sellers must really be something else. I will say that there are a couple of coin sellers that I do find suspect, but they are the exceptions. And even there, it might be excused away, with the explanation that those sellers that have developed a loyal customer base pleased with the level of quality and service. >>
How do you figure sniping negates shill bids? The item can still be shill bid before the auction ends and the snipes kick in - snipers will still adjust their bid accordingly. And shills can also be placed as snipe bids.
I am convinced that the majority of ebay auctions have shills involved. Whether that "majority" is 51% or 99% is a matter of conjecture. Ebay knows this and this is why I think they now hide the bidders identitys. They don't care since it gets them more money in fees. Sure they will do something if it is brought to their attention but otherwise, they ignore it.
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<< <i>I used to think that 95% of ebay sellers shill bid their auctions. Now I think the number is higher. I recently sold an item and the guy told me he was very surprised it did not sell for closer to $400 and he had a snipe bid set at $450. It sold for under $300. I don't shill. He told me he thinks 100% of the larger sellers shill bid. I'll go with 99% to protect the innocent. >>
I think that 95% of "all" sellers is probably a bit too high...but 99% of "larger sellers" I believe is accurate or very close to accurate - just my opinion.
Basically, anyone who has bought on ebay for a long time and has observed bidding patterns, and knows the market value and expected interest with certain collectibles, can usually notice the difference in shilled and non-shilled auctions.
BTW, there is a way for a shill to bid up an auction against a legit high bidder without going over the bid and having to cancel his last bid...it is done knowing the required ebay bid increments depending on the amount of the auction at the time...so I think the OP's insinuation is probably right. >>
I really don't get it. Sniping eliminates the problem of shills. Do buyers of other collectables bid early? Does the op bid early? I thought that most serious coin buyers on Ebay snipe. It is mostly a very few old school types, and eBay newbies that will bid early in a true coin auction. Why would any volume seller waste time on shilling when that gains them nothing in most cases and if proved against them gets them banned, losing huge feedback bases? Do the shillers have special software to do it? Do they hire dozens of people to use dozens of phony accounts to shill on their hundred auctions ending in a one-hour window? If folks really suspect shilling, just shift to sniping or using a snipe program and the problem mostly goes away (also avoid the second-chance offers).
The accusations sound so far from the reality that I experience, it feels like I am in a parallel universe. If anything, I'd say my experience is the complete opposite. In the many thousands of coin auctions that I have watched and bid on over the years, maybe 5% have signs of shilling. I would categorize myself as a cynical person, with an always active radar for scammers, so you guys that are seeing 99% Ebay shill sellers must really be something else. I will say that there are a couple of coin sellers that I do find suspect, but they are the exceptions. And even there, it might be excused away, with the explanation that those sellers that have developed a loyal customer base pleased with the level of quality and service. >>
How do you figure sniping negates shill bids? The item can still be shill bid before the auction ends and the snipes kick in - snipers will still adjust their bid accordingly. And shills can also be placed as snipe bids.
I am convinced that the majority of ebay auctions have shills involved. Whether that "majority" is 51% or 99% is a matter of conjecture. Ebay knows this and this is why I think they now hide the bidders identitys. They don't care since it gets them more money in fees. Sure they will do something if it is brought to their attention but otherwise, they ignore it. >>
Yes, it's not only the "herd mentality" shill bids to get the auction going and make it appear lively, but the snipe shill bids as well. Just set one snipe at the minimum selling price that you want to get, and overall it's that easy...too easy. I would agree before the advent of snipes it may have been say 50% or whatever, but I believe now the percentages are much, much higher as stated...again, it's just too easy to do, and so why not do it?
In my opinion, ebay tolerates it because let's face it, they want to emulate amazon.com anyway with the BIN - best offer, which sort of in a way copies the "reverse auction" format of amazon.com...and having their large sellers set shill snipes in an auction, really is sort of like a best offer buy it now, rather than a true auction...and ebay still picks up their seller fees regardless of whether the buyer is legit or a shill...so in reality, in my opinion, ebay couldn't care less about shill bidding despite their lip service against it...and considering the extra money ebay makes, they likely condone it privately.