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Langbord update.
SanctionII
Posts: 13,067 ✭✭✭✭✭
Checked the case docket today.
Still no ruling on the pretrial motions.
Trial is to start in 13 days
It is possible that the court will not issue rulings on the pretrial motions until the day set for trial (7-7-2011). In that event, the attorneys and their clients would spend time with the court going over things [including pretrial rulings] for a day or so before the trial commences [with the bringing into the court of a jury panel and the beginning of jury selection].
Has anyone in forum land back on the East Coast decided to attend the trial? If so, send me a PM.
If not, well all I can say is that no one showing up [even for just one day of the trial] really surprises me.
Coin TV is interested in televising the trial [live or more likely delayed], however it may be that the court [and maybe the parties] would not allow the trial to be televised.
Still no ruling on the pretrial motions.
Trial is to start in 13 days
It is possible that the court will not issue rulings on the pretrial motions until the day set for trial (7-7-2011). In that event, the attorneys and their clients would spend time with the court going over things [including pretrial rulings] for a day or so before the trial commences [with the bringing into the court of a jury panel and the beginning of jury selection].
Has anyone in forum land back on the East Coast decided to attend the trial? If so, send me a PM.
If not, well all I can say is that no one showing up [even for just one day of the trial] really surprises me.
Coin TV is interested in televising the trial [live or more likely delayed], however it may be that the court [and maybe the parties] would not allow the trial to be televised.
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Comments
Tom
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
Not really looking for much these days but if I were, it might be a toner.
it would happen before the trial starts?? Is it even still a possibility at this point?
bob
<< <i>I can't wait for this trial to start! >>
I bet you can.
Jeez -- with all of the delays in your business, I am sure I would be driven completely insane within six months of starting my practice.
I couldn't take it; I'm glad you can, so you can keep us up to speed on the goings-on.
Coin Rarities Online
You never know what will happen in a lawsuit. The case may settle, or it may have to go to trial.
If you recall, the legal dispute over the Fenton coin [both criminal and civil] started in early 1996 and did not resolve itself until early 2001. The Fenton case settled and as a result the Fenton coin was sold in 2002 for $7.5 million+.
The settlement of the Fenton case did not happen until a few days prior to the scheduled start of a jury trial in the forfeiture action filed by the government against the Fenton coin [that forfeiture case was filed under the forfeiture statutes on the books prior to the amendment of same pursuant to CAFRA (Civil Asset Forfeiture Refrom Act) passed by Congress and signed into law by President Clinton]. The Fenton case posed a problem to the government since Fenton and his lawyers had found the Treasury Dept. Export License issued to allow King Farouk to take a 1933 double eagle out of the USA.
The current case also poses problems for the government since under CAFRA the government has the burden of proof to present evidence that the 10 double eagles "are stolen property or the proceeds of same" and thus should be forfeited. Since the 10 double eagles left the mint over 75 years ago, no one can definitively say or prove that the 10 double eagles left the mint illegally. The Langbords on the other hand do not have the burden of proof under the CAFRA forfeiture claim. Further, they can have their expert, RWB, testify about his research and about multiple possible methods through which the 10 double eagles could have left the mint legally.
Will a repeat of Fenton [settlement a few days before trial] happen in this case?
No one knows, but we will soon find out.
If not, the trial should be very interesting and exciting for coin geeks around the USA and the world.
<< <i>Kaz.
You never know what will happen in a lawsuit. The case may settle, or it may have to go to trial.
If you recall, the legal dispute over the Fenton coin [both criminal and civil] started in early 1996 and did not resolve itself until early 2001. The Fenton case settled and as a result the Fenton coin was sold in 2002 for $7.5 million+.
The settlement of the Fenton case did not happen until a few days prior to the scheduled start of a jury trial in the forfeiture action filed by the government against the Fenton coin [that forfeiture case was filed under the forfeiture statutes on the books prior to the amendment of same pursuant to CAFRA (Civil Asset Forfeiture Refrom Act) passed by Congress and signed into law by President Clinton]. The Fenton case posed a problem to the government since Fenton and his lawyers had found the Treasury Dept. Export License issued to allow King Farouk to take a 1933 double eagle out of the USA.
The current case also poses problems for the government since under CAFRA the government has the burden of proof to present evidence that the 10 double eagles "are stolen property or the proceeds of same" and thus should be forfeited. Since the 10 double eagles left the mint over 75 years ago, no one can definitively say or prove that the 10 double eagles left the mint illegally. The Langbords on the other hand do not have the burden of proof under the CAFRA forfeiture claim. Further, they can have their expert, RWB, testify about his research and about multiple possible methods through which the 10 double eagles could have left the mint legally.
Will a repeat of Fenton [settlement a few days before trial] happen in this case?
No one knows, but we will soon find out.
Thanks for all the info and the analysis/
I smell a settlement, so that the government can save some face in the deal.
However, this is just a WAG.
TD
If not, the trial should be very interesting and exciting for coin geeks around the USA and the world. >>
The Langbord's are transparent. We all know their deal. Just ask SaintGuru
The government side of it is, IMHO, a much more interesting story.
The truth will eventually come out. Wish I could be in Philly to watch.
<< <i>I don't think they will settle. There is someone in justice, I don't know who it is, or exactly what their motivation is, that refuses to go down on this issue. >>
That moron's motivation is "let's see how much taxpayer money we can waste on an issue that should be a non-issue."
It may be that the government's "no settlement" position is one which has come about simply due to inertia [since the government has taken the position that 1933 double eagles are not legal to own since the early 1940's, almost 70 years now], without any person on the government side of the case caring about the issue on a personal level.
Then again it may be that the government position is not due to inertia and that one or more people in the government are deeply committed on a personal level to do anything within their power to see that the 10 double eagles are never made legal to own. If so, then do not expect a loss by the government at the trial court level to be the end of the case. The government would appeal the case.
Yesterday a court order was filed directing the Langbords to provide two copies of their trial exhibits to the court by 6-28-2011.
This is certainly an exciting new development
https://acoinshop.com/ —-> https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Can you look at it and tell us anything about the Langbord exhibits?
Many thanx for all of your work on this!!
I firmly believe in numismatics as the world's greatest hobby, but recognize that this is a luxury and without collectors, we can all spend/melt our collections/inventories.
eBaystore
<< <i>In the office to do some work this morning and I just checked the case docket.
Yesterday a court order was filed directing the Langbords to provide two copies of their trial exhibits to the court by 6-28-2011.
This is certainly an exciting new development
Silly question....do such orders normally have a standard compliance time, such as 12 Noon or 5 P.M., or do they just specify a time depending on what the judge feels like that day?
Thanks again for the updates. Maybe they will get this thing off the ground!
TD
I have no doubt the Langbords complied with the court's order.
I have seen none of the proposed trial exhibits [they are not posted on line yet and I do not know if they will be posted on line]; I have seen none of the deposition transcripts [they are not posted on line either]; and I do not know if I will ever see the trial exhibits, read the deposition transcripts or hear/read the trial testimony.
Other than checking the court docket and looking at the documents that have been filed in the case I am "deaf, dumb and blind" about what is happening in the case.
CaptHenway.
Unless the court order specifies a time dealine [i.e. 1:00 p.m.], the parties need only file documents by the end of the day on the day of the filing deadline. That used to mean before the clerk's office closed for the day. Now, with electronic filing of documents, I assume that documents can be filed 24 hours per day, giving people until midnight on the day of the filing deadline to file documents. Of course delivering two copies of exhibits requires manual delivery of physical copies [in a binder] to the courtroom staff prior to the closing time of say 5:00 p.m.
Exciting stuff, isn't it?
<< <i>Julian.
I have no doubt the Langbords complied with the court's order.
I have seen none of the proposed trial exhibits [they are not posted on line yet and I do not know if they will be posted on line]; I have seen none of the deposition transcripts [they are not posted on line either]; and I do not know if I will ever see the trial exhibits, read the deposition transcripts or hear/read the trial testimony.
Other than checking the court docket and looking at the documents that have been filed in the case I am "deaf, dumb and blind" about what is happening in the case.
CaptHenway.
Unless the court order specifies a time dealine [i.e. 1:00 p.m.], the parties need only file documents by the end of the day on the day of the filing deadline. That used to mean before the clerk's office closed for the day. Now, with electronic filing of documents, I assume that documents can be filed 24 hours per day, giving people until midnight on the day of the filing deadline to file documents. Of course delivering two copies of exhibits requires manual delivery of physical copies [in a binder] to the courtroom staff prior to the closing time of say 5:00 p.m.
Exciting stuff, isn't it? >>
Will you need to do a FOIA hassle in order to get it?