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Getting a overgraded coin in a counterfeit pcgs slab into a real pcgs slab. Would this work?
coirn
Posts: 500
Disclaimer! NOT thinking of doing so! disclaimer!
Ok, would it be possible if you had, say a 1925-S MS64 Peace dollar in a counterfeit PCGS "MS65" slab to simply sent it in for TrueView and reholdering? Is the coin looked at by anyone who is a grader and could (possibly) determine the coin is 'wrong' for the holder?
Or is is as I speculate, simply cracked out by a pcgs employee and then photographed and reholdered, now in a genuine pcgs slab without a qualified grader ever having viewed it?
Seems like this would be an easy kind of back door fraudulent way of doing so.
Ok, would it be possible if you had, say a 1925-S MS64 Peace dollar in a counterfeit PCGS "MS65" slab to simply sent it in for TrueView and reholdering? Is the coin looked at by anyone who is a grader and could (possibly) determine the coin is 'wrong' for the holder?
Or is is as I speculate, simply cracked out by a pcgs employee and then photographed and reholdered, now in a genuine pcgs slab without a qualified grader ever having viewed it?
Seems like this would be an easy kind of back door fraudulent way of doing so.
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www.brunkauctions.com
<< <i>it would be discovered, confiscated and you would be contacted >>
.......by the authorities. Just crack it out and send it to them raw and save yourself a ton of grief.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Second, is it really the case that a "one" "point" "difference" in grade would be overgrading?
Ed. S.
(EJS)
My guess is yes, they are and it would be detected. But it is just a guess.
Lance.
If it got past that then if the real coin ever shows up for a re-holder or TrueView they'll see it doesn't match the TrueView photos.
Or if the owner of the real one ever does a look up they'll see the photos and be asking PCGS to check it out.
<< <i>They probably would spot the fake holder when sent in for TrueView.
If it got past that then if the real coin ever shows up for a re-holder or TrueView they'll see it doesn't match the TrueView photos.
Or if the owner of the real one ever does a look up they'll see the photos and be asking PCGS to check it out. >>
I appreciate what you're saying, but what I am implying is the coin itself is genuine- just not a gem. The holder is fake.
My theory is low level personnel crack the coin out of its case and submit it for photography. Once it is photographed the same level of employee then slabs it in a fresh, genuine holder.
For a ten dollar reholdering fee why would a professional grader ever come into contact with the coin?
And, the difference in value of a ms64 and ms65 in the example given is many thousands of dollars.
When I got the coin the holder was cracked and resealed with a polished/cleaned example (that was genuine).
pcgs is on the hunt now
<< <i>
<< <i>They probably would spot the fake holder when sent in for TrueView.
If it got past that then if the real coin ever shows up for a re-holder or TrueView they'll see it doesn't match the TrueView photos.
Or if the owner of the real one ever does a look up they'll see the photos and be asking PCGS to check it out. >>
I appreciate what you're saying, but what I am implying is the coin itself is genuine- just not a gem. The holder is fake.
My theory is low level personnel crack the coin out of its case and submit it for photography. Once it is photographed the same level of employee then slabs it in a fresh, genuine holder.
For a ten dollar reholdering fee why would a professional grader ever come into contact with the coin?
And, the difference in value of a ms64 and ms65 in the example given is many thousands of dollars. >>
Well, if such a loophole did exist, let's hope that your post focused sufficient attention to close it.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>They probably would spot the fake holder when sent in for TrueView.
If it got past that then if the real coin ever shows up for a re-holder or TrueView they'll see it doesn't match the TrueView photos.
Or if the owner of the real one ever does a look up they'll see the photos and be asking PCGS to check it out. >>
I appreciate what you're saying, but what I am implying is the coin itself is genuine- just not a gem. The holder is fake.
My theory is low level personnel crack the coin out of its case and submit it for photography. Once it is photographed the same level of employee then slabs it in a fresh, genuine holder.
For a ten dollar reholdering fee why would a professional grader ever come into contact with the coin?
And, the difference in value of a ms64 and ms65 in the example given is many thousands of dollars. >>
Well, if such a loophole did exist, let's hope that your post focused sufficient attention to close it. >>
Absolutely! This is a good thing to discuss, really. It brings light to a potential problem that MAY or MAY NOT exist. I like dangerous hypothetical posts. Although, they may seem to construe illegal activities and fraud, I believe they can help STOP these potential issues from ever arising.
But I never would like to be the one to test this hypothesis. I do wonder though...
Does PCGS employ "secret shoppers" who send in fake coins, fake slabs, etc? If not, they certainly SHOULD just to make sure things are operating at their full potential.
<< <i>Disclaimer! NOT thinking of doing so! disclaimer!
Ok, would it be possible if you had, say a 1925-S MS64 Peace dollar in a counterfeit PCGS "MS65" slab to simply sent it in for TrueView and reholdering? Is the coin looked at by anyone who is a grader and could (possibly) determine the coin is 'wrong' for the holder?
Or is is as I speculate, simply cracked out by a pcgs employee and then photographed and reholdered, now in a genuine pcgs slab without a qualified grader ever having viewed it?
Seems like this would be an easy kind of back door fraudulent way of doing so. >>
If you knew the holder was not genuine, chances are that someone who has handled hundreds of thousands of them night notice it too.
Remember, by training and experience, the folks at PCGS are experts in authentication. An interesting process occurs after one develops such expertise that is often described as a "gut reaction" or "first impression" when faced with a decision. For a great discussion of this and the development of expertise, read the book "Blink" by Malcolm Gladwell. I used the same basic principle when teaching grading for the ANA.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces