Buying MS67 FB Mercury Dimes from pictures - should one expect descriptions with coins from major au

seateddime · June 23, 2011 11:40AM

I recently purchased 12 MS67FB dimes, mostly the tougher coins in 67 where the 66's are fairly common and the 68's can be counted on one hand. I paid strong money for the coins I liked a lot based on the images.

11 were PCGS and 1 was NGC. When the lots came I knew I was in good shape on 9 of the coins and ok shape on 1 but one was not there, not even close and I am surprised it made the cut at PCGS.

Of the coins I sent fedex to CAC 9 got the bean, 2 did not. One I figured would didn't and one I knew would not did not. One I figured one gold did not but I think it still may come back a 67+ FB.

This is because there are several hidden lines in the fields that can only be seen in hand. The 1940's P mints have a line of die polishing so to see lines is common but they are raised. If they are not it is not a 67.

I don't want to say which auction house it is but I think they knew this coin was lucky to be in a 67 holder and had the put a note there was chatter in the field not visable in the photo this coin would have brought much less. In a internet session they tell you nothing and I do feel this is not be 100% honest.

roadrunner · June 23, 2011 11:46AM

If you went 9 out of 12 beans bidding sight-unseen at auction you beat the odds by a mile. I'm impressed. I would have have expected a much lower hit rate. You can't
spot a hairline or two from a photo.

The problem isn't with the auction house, but the TPG that graded the coin. I certainly don't expect the auction house to call the coin an overgraded piece of crap and do the
consignor an injustice. It's graded as a TPG MS67, so it must be.

roadrunner

coinman23885 · June 23, 2011 11:57AM

<< If you went 9 out of 12 beans bidding sight-unseen at auction you beat the odds by a mile. I'm impressed. I would have have expected a much lower hit rate. You can't
spot a hairline or two from a photo.

The problem isn't with the auction house, but the TPG that graded the coin. I certainly don't expect the auction house to call the coin an overgraded piece of crap and do the
consignor an injustice. It's graded as a TPG MS67, so it must be.

roadrunner >>

seateddime · June 23, 2011 12:17PM

Let's say I looked very hard at the pictures blown up and passed on 80% of what I saw.

ColonialCoinUnion · June 23, 2011 12:27PM

<< but I think they knew this coin was lucky to be in a 67 holder >>

Since I think it is unlikely that the auction house is going to change their methodology when describing the coins, you may want to change how you evaluate them before bidding.

magikbilly · June 23, 2011 12:30PM

<< 

<< but I think they knew this coin was lucky to be in a 67 holder >>

Since I think it is unlikely that the auction house is going to change their methodology when describing the coins, you may want to change how you evaluate them before bidding. >>

Well said!

Eric

mrpotatoheadd · June 23, 2011 12:32PM

<< I don't want to say which auction house it is but I think they knew this coin was lucky to be in a 67 holder and had the put a note there was chatter in the field not visable in the photo this coin would have brought much less. In a internet session they tell you nothing and I do feel this is not be 100% honest. >>

It sounds like you're not complaining that they weren't 100% honest in describing the coins that ended up being better than average for the grade- just the one that wasn't.

keyman64 · June 23, 2011 12:42PM

Expect, no. In my experience an auction house will only stick to the positives about a lot item. Sometimes you have to read what they are NOT saying. As far as MS67FB Mercs, some auction houses will give you a description, sometimes. I have a few 67FBs in my set from online auctions...Teletrade, Heritage, eBay etc.

seateddime · June 23, 2011 12:50PM

<< 

<< but I think they knew this coin was lucky to be in a 67 holder >>

Since I think it is unlikely that the auction house is going to change their methodology when describing the coins, you may want to change how you evaluate them before bidding. >>

I agree with you. I used to grade from images and with much sucess but as the descriptions become date and population it is harder to buy coins that when tilted reveal things well hidden in photos.

pmh1nic · June 24, 2011 6:05AM

When you're talking about higher grades like 67 it becomes more of a gamble since the things that distinguish a 67 from a 66 are much easier to intentionally or unintentionally obscure in a photograph. What's invisible becomes visible with just a slight change in the angle of view.

I wonder about an increase in liability when statements are made regarding the condition of a coin given the somewhat subjective nature of grading. And while descriptions can be helpful nothing short of holding the coin in your hand with a loop will tell you the full story.

airplanenut · June 24, 2011 6:39AM

Auction houses walk a very fine line of being honest to the buyer and getting maximum dollar for the seller. When there's a question, they defer to what favors the seller.

Lakesammman · June 24, 2011 6:50AM

The only time I buy sight unseen is when my interest is in the holder.

Either get to the auction for viewing, have them sent or rent a pair of eyes you trust.

Analyst · June 29, 2011 11:15AM

CCU <<Since I think it is unlikely that the auction house is going to change their methodology when describing the coins, you may want to change how you evaluate them before bidding.>>

Lakesammman<<Either get to the auction for viewing, have them sent or rent a pair of eyes you trust.>>

I agree with CCU and Lakesammman. Additionally, I sometimes wonder if the Mercs with ‘Full Bands’ designations are worth current premiums over those with partial bands? Indeed, I gave this matter some thought before finishing my column that was posted today:

Coin Rarities & Related Topics: Collecting Dimes

roadrunner · June 29, 2011 12:03PM

From the above article:

The bands on a Merc are not that important,” Albanese asserts, “not as important as a full head on a Standing Liberty Quarter. It’s kind of an insignificant characteristic. Search for Gem Mercs with almost full bands,” John suggests. Also, collectors can “buy some better date Standing Liberty Quarters with an almost full head for a fraction of the price of [one with] a full head. MS-65 and MS-66 Mercs with almost full bands, though, are sometimes great values.”

One issue is that a lot of those almost Full Band coins are in Full Band holders. What one should be looking for is a sharp full band coin with a corresponding well struck obverse.
I'd say the bands are important if they are very crisp and so is the rest of the coin. Finding 80-95% band coins not designated as Full Band is a good idea. Downside continues to be
that all the action in the REG sets seems to be in FB mercs. 85% FB mercs may be a good value, but they also may never catch on since they probably far outnumber those building
choice and gem sets of non-FB mercs.

roadrunner

DIMEMAN · June 29, 2011 12:13PM

I have always believed that full bands on Mercs and Roosies are overated and not worth the moon money that some command. The well struck partial bands with strong hair detail on obverse is what I have always looked for.

Frankcoins · June 29, 2011 12:38PM

Auction houses are almost always authorized dealers for the grading services, and their contracts prohibit
making "disparaging" remarks about coins, or suggesting that certain coins are overgraded, or that coins in
different generation of slabs are graded better, or worth more than others. And as long as they deliver the
MS63 coin slabbed by XYZ grading service, they have done ALL THEY ARE REQUIRED TO DO, and are legally
immune from claims based on substandard quality (take it up with the grading company if you are unhappy)

Buying MS67 FB Mercury Dimes from pictures - should one expect descriptions with coins from major au

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