What do you think this $10 Indian would grade?

JamesM · June 18, 2011 12:48PM

Thank you

AnkurJ · June 18, 2011 12:51PM

Genuine due to the scratch above the eagle's head.

Banemorth · June 18, 2011 12:51PM

Looks great I'd venture AU-55 but don't listen to me. I'm the new guy!

Banemorth · June 18, 2011 12:52PM

<< Genuine due to the scratch above the eagle's head. >>

So if something is damaged like that they don't just subtract from the grade like say from an MS-64 to an AU-55, they just mark it Genuine?

kaz · June 18, 2011 1:43PM

Well, it's subjective. If it looks like "intentional" marking (other than "normal" circulation/handling) there is an increased chance it will not grade. That is a fairly long and deep mark, and I suspect it would not grade.

Looking at it some more, the amount of wear alone would probably put it in the 53-55 range. It is too bad about the reverse scratch and the obv. hits on the Indian, as the fields look really nice

pmh1nic · June 18, 2011 1:48PM

I've got a coin graded "AU details Net XF45 scratched" due to the scratch at 9 o'clock. I'm think the Indian might get the same given the scratch is pretty pronounce and quite a distraction.

Banemorth · June 18, 2011 2:01PM

That's a real shame

Glad I learned something new though.

PerryHall · June 18, 2011 10:29PM

Not sure if that's a scratch over the eagle's head or just a contact mark. Doesn't seem serious enough to warrant not grading the coin. With the marks on the Indian and the nice original surfaces, I would guess this coin would get a MS63.

kaz · June 18, 2011 10:37PM

James, as I said it's subjective. You won't know for sure unless you send the coin in for grading. It may turn out to be worth it!

DenverDave · June 18, 2011 10:59PM

<< Not sure if that's a scratch over the eagle's head or just a contact mark. Doesn't seem serious enough to warrant not grading the coin. With the marks on the Indian and the nice original surfaces, I would guess this coin would get a MS63. >>

roadrunner · June 19, 2011 1:29AM

I'd go with the 63 as well as the coin has a number of attributes suggesting a higher grade. The scratch above the eagle doesn't bother me as much as the hits on her neck.

Nice flashy original gold has to have some monstrous hits and damage to be called "genuine." It's a soft metal and it takes a beating. 62 would be the lowest grade I would expect
on a tough day at the TPG.

roadrunner

Broadstruck · June 19, 2011 1:47AM

I feel 26-P's and 32-P's are graded a bit more compassionately as they come very baggie compared to the rest of the series.

bidask · June 19, 2011 1:55AM

61

TheBigB · June 19, 2011 1:57AM

I respect the MS63 opinions stated prior, but will go AU58.

I think that I detect wear on the eagle's wing.

roadrunner · June 19, 2011 2:08AM

<< I respect the MS63 opinions stated prior, but will go AU58.
I think that I detect wear on the eagle's wing. >>

A weakly struck shoulder is common for this date, as well as numerous other $10 Indian dates. If that is indeed rub, then the fields should be scuffed up with many fine lines
from having been heavily handled. Also confirming would have to be one of the obv high points....the hair curl under the "B" in LIBERTY.

roadrunner

TheBigB · June 19, 2011 2:17AM

<< 

<< I respect the MS63 opinions stated prior, but will go AU58.
I think that I detect wear on the eagle's wing. >>

A weakly struck shoulder is common for this date, as well as numerous other $10 Indian dates. If that is indeed rub, then the fields should be scuffed up with many fine lines
from having been heavily handled. Also confirming would have to be one of the obv high points....the hair curl under the "B" in LIBERTY.

roadrunner >>

Thanks for the reply, roadrunner. Technical grade aside, what would you buy this as?

CoinJunkie · June 19, 2011 2:29AM

I don't think there's a chance that coin goes 63 at a major TPG. Way too much damage to
the neck plus the other large dings. I'd feel lucky with a 62, personally.

PerryHall · June 19, 2011 2:31AM

That coin is definitely not AU. It's totally original and definitely mint state.

roadrunner · June 19, 2011 2:35AM

If raw, I'd buy it as a 61. The spread from 61 to 62 is only $50.

If holdered I'd buy it as a 63 or lower. Though I don't think I'd be paying anything but lower end generic 63 money for it. The entire spread from 61 to 63 is $800-$1050.
With AU's fetching $750-$775 there's not a lot of downside risk on such a coin.

roadrunner

Type2 · June 19, 2011 2:55AM

AU-58 or MS61

pmh1nic · June 19, 2011 3:10AM

<< Not sure if that's a scratch over the eagle's head or just a contact mark. Doesn't seem serious enough to warrant not grading the coin. With the marks on the Indian and the nice original surfaces, I would guess this coin would get a MS63. >>

The length of the mark over the eagle's head seems to be too long to have been made by a simple hit from another coin. Those type of marks (hits, dings) are what you see on the neck. Those dings are about a quarter of the length of the mark over the eagle's head. The mark over the eagle's head was probably made by the edge of one coin being dragged across the surface of this coin resulting in an elongated mark that may be judged a scratch rather then a simple hit.

On the plus side it's not on the obverse. On the negative side it is in what I consider a prime focal area on the reverse.

PerryHall · June 19, 2011 3:56AM

I sure hope the owner of this coin submits it for slabbing since it would sure be interesting to see how PCGS grades this coin.

JamesM · June 19, 2011 6:48AM

<< I sure hope the owner of this coin submits it for slabbing since it would sure be interesting to see how PCGS grades this coin. >>

I likely will, I have 3 other 10$ Indians I would like to send in.

The reason I posted this here is this is the worst of the 3.

So if this is a ~63 then i should be doing well.

Still not sure how to handle the 3 coins or where to send them.

PerryHall · June 19, 2011 6:57AM

<< 

<< I sure hope the owner of this coin submits it for slabbing since it would sure be interesting to see how PCGS grades this coin. >>

I likely will, I have 3 other 10$ Indians I would like to send in.

The reason I posted this here is this is the worst of the 3.

So if this is a ~63 then i should be doing well.

The last one I think may be a proof because the rims are very well struck and the coin has a much different looking finish to it. (die polish on all 3 sides)

Still not sure how to handle the 3 coins or where to send them. >>

Do the coins have matte proof surfaces---grainy sandblast non-reflective finish? Cast counterfeits have a similar look and this series has been heavily counterfeited. I'd take them to the next major coin show that you attend and get the opinion of a few dealers before you spend you money on grading fees.

JamesM · June 19, 2011 7:36AM

<< Do the coins have matte proof surfaces---grainy sandblast non-reflective finish? Cast counterfeits have a similar look and this series has been heavily counterfeited. I'd take them to the next major coin show that you attend and get the opinion of a few dealers before you spend you money on grading fees. >>

The coin in question is a
1907 No periods $10
Very much like this coin that sold at last LB.
http://coins.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=1156&lotNo=4808

I feel 99% confident in saying it's a struck coin.

At the last Long Beach I spent some time in lot viewing looking at some other proof gold.

(Lots 5243 5244 the pair of 20$ Saints PR67)

So far it seems to me that in 1907 the No Periods, No Motto Dies have many differences to the coins produced in 08 and after.

These include the subtle differences I noticed in the stars and hair but I also believe that some or all of the 240,000 1907 No Periods may have had a difference in die preparation.

If anyone knows more about this please let me know as I am very interested in any information on this topic.

My stated opinions above are purely my uneducated observations. I do not own a book that goes in depth about $10 Indians so it may be, and likely is, completely wrong.

I will try and take some time to photograph the coin and will update this thread when I do.

In the meantime, can anyone recommend a book to buy or borrow from the ANA on Proof and business strike gold?

bidask · June 19, 2011 7:41AM

<< 

<< Do the coins have matte proof surfaces---grainy sandblast non-reflective finish? Cast counterfeits have a similar look and this series has been heavily counterfeited. I'd take them to the next major coin show that you attend and get the opinion of a few dealers before you spend you money on grading fees. >>

The coin in question is a
1907 No periods $10
Very much like this coin that sold at last LB.
http://coins.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=1156&lotNo=4808

I feel 99% confident in saying it's a struck coin.

At the last Long Beach I spent some time in lot viewing looking at some other proof gold.

(Lots 5243 5244 the pair of 20$ Saints PR67)

So far it seems to me that in 1907 the No Periods, No Motto Dies have many differences to the coins produced in 08 and after.

These include the subtle differences I noticed in the stars and hair but I also believe that some or all of the 240,000 1907 No Periods may have had a difference in die preparation.

If anyone knows more about this please let me know as I am very interested in any information on this topic.

My stated opinions above are purely my uneducated observations. I do not own a book that goes in depth about $10 Indians so it may be, and likely is, completely wrong.

I will try and take some time to photograph the coin and will update this thread when I do.

In the meantime, can anyone recommend a book to buy or borrow from the ANA on Proof and business strike gold? >>

Ron Guth and Jeff Garrett's Encyclopedia of US Gold Coins ( 2006) might help you...