Discussion of an EBAY seller who refunded 3 of my Paypal payment and relisted all 3 items in new auc

greghansen · June 18, 2011 6:31AM

Today I took a flier and wound up winning an auction on a raw 1889-cc Morgan Dollar.
Completed 1889-CC EBAY auction link.

The auction ended at10:38PDT. I had several other bids on the sellers other items which are scheduled to end later today about 3-4 hours after this auction.
At 11:44 PDT, I received a request from seller to cancel transaction because I had not paid yet. Here is the entirety of his Request for Cancellation.

Hi greghansen,
blowemoneybrandon recently opened a cancel transaction case for an item you recently purchased: 1889-CC XF- Morgan Dollar KING of the Carson City's N/R.

Reason for cancel transaction request: Buyer's payment hasn't been received or hasn't cleared

Seller comment: Buyer did not comply with the time limit a posted in description so I have the right to cancle this transaction! Sorry we could not make a deal but, you have to comply with my payment recomendations!

Click the "Respond now" button to accept or decline this cancellation.

If you don't take action by Jun-25-2011, the seller will be able to cancel the purchase without your consent.

I was shocked by the request being received less than 90 minutes after the auction ended. I wrote back however said the only reason I had not paid was due to pending bids on his other auctions ended in about 3 hours, but that since he wanted payment immediately I would do so. I went to Paypal and paid him at 12:04 PDT.

I thought that was the end of it. No further communication from seller until...

Now, while cruising EBAY, I see that the seller relisted the item at 12:24 p.m AFTER refunding my payal payment.

Same 1889-CC now relisted by seller!

I've contacted the seller via the new auction and asked him what is going on. I paid, he refunded, and now has relisted?
Any ideas how I handle this. I've not had too many problems with sellers not wanting to take my money...but I seem to be in the middle of one now.

Edited to add: Title of thread changed to reflect 'facts on the ground' that seller has now sent cancellation requests on 3 auctions I won yesterday and refunded all 3 paypal payments, and relisted all 3 coins in new auctions.

mingot · June 18, 2011 6:42AM

It's over. Move on and quit trying to give your money to jerks.

ianrussell · June 18, 2011 6:43AM

Well, you did take almost 90 minutes to pay him.

I haven't seen this before - personally, payment within 90 minutes would put you in my "great buyer" category.

- Ian

coirn · June 18, 2011 6:46AM

He does state in large, bold font you the buyer must pay immediately upon conclusion of the auction and he reserves the right to cancel the transaction if you refuse to do so.
That was his rules going into the auction. A rule you should have been aware of before bidding. Don't like that (crazy) rule? Don't bid. By bidding you then agreed to follow that
standard. You didn't do so. Again, it is a silly rule, but it was the seller's right to place this stipulation within the auction as well as your prerogative to not bid and move along.

Now you want the seller to change his instruction to fit your need.

Sorry, you were wrong and the seller was right.

questor54 · June 18, 2011 6:46AM

<< It's over. Move on and quit trying to give your money to jerks. >>

ianrussell · June 18, 2011 6:51AM

<< He does state in large, bold font you the buyer must pay immediately upon conclusion of the auction and he reserves the right to cancel the transaction if you refuse to do so.
That was his rules going into the auction. A rule you should have been aware of before bidding. Don't like that (crazy) rule? Don't bid. By bidding you then agreed to follow that
standard. You didn't do so. Again, it is a silly rule, but it was the seller's right to place this stipulation within the auction as well as your prerogative to not bid and move along.

Now you want the seller to change his instruction to fit your need.

Sorry, you were wrong and the seller was right. >>

Paying "immediately" is almost impossible. It seems even if you win and pay within three minutes you would be paying too late.

- Ian

devious · June 18, 2011 6:54AM

<< He does state in large, bold font you the buyer must pay immediately upon conclusion of the auction and he reserves the right to cancel the transaction if you refuse to do so.
That was his rules going into the auction. A rule you should have been aware of before bidding. Don't like that (crazy) rule? Don't bid. By bidding you then agreed to follow that
standard. You didn't do so. Again, it is a silly rule, but it was the seller's right to place this stipulation within the auction as well as your prerogative to not bid and move along.

Now you want the seller to change his instruction to fit your need.

Sorry, you were wrong and the seller was right. >>

Dear Greg,

Leave a negative feedback! I would not hesitate in doing so in this case. If the seller cannot wait for you to spend MORE money on MORE OF HIS ITEMS, move along and leave appropriate feedback. Despite what the auction says, this guy is a fool for not wanting to accept your money. And more of a fool because he (hopefully) will have an extra negative from somebody who wanted to spend their hard earn money on his/her coins.

Neg him. And the seller is within their right to do such moronic moves and the buyer is also in their right to leave opinionated feedback. I think it has more to do with him wanting more for the coin than it was bid up to.

In any case, best of luck and move on! Don't waste your energy. "I want to sell things, but I don't want to sell things!" Bahaha! 90 minutes is, as far as I am concerned, immediately after the auction has ended.

Rampage · June 18, 2011 6:54AM

Seller deserves a negative feedback rating. It is blatently obvious he was not happy with the hammer price and decided to take his chances with a relist.

BAJJERFAN · June 18, 2011 6:54AM

I wonder if he enforces those sillyass terms across the board or just when it it suits his fancy.

Bankerbob56 · June 18, 2011 6:58AM

Greg That is un-be-leev-a-bull!!!

I would keep my money, cancel the other bids (or fail to pay immediately) and never bid on that seller's auctions again!

questor54 · June 18, 2011 6:59AM

<< Seller deserves a negative feedback rating. It is blatently obvious he was not happy with the hammer price and decided to take his chances with a relist. >>

greghansen · June 18, 2011 7:02AM

He does state in large, bold font you the buyer must pay immediately upon conclusion of the auction and he reserves the right to cancel the transaction if you refuse to do so.

I get that. But the relisting of the item wasn't about non-payment. He had been paid in full. That's the thing that upsets me. He sent me a message essentially saying, 'your not paying fast enough'; so I paid. AFTER he received payment, he refunded the payment and relisted the item. So his relist is obviously not about not being paid. He had to send my money back first...and then he relisted the item. Classic. I guess I'm done with him.

LeeBone · June 18, 2011 7:04AM

<< Seller deserves a negative feedback rating. It is blatently obvious he was not happy with the hammer price and decided to take his chances with a relist. >>

Edited to add: Greg, I have done business with you on E-Bay and wish everyone could be HALF as nice as you.

291fifth · June 18, 2011 7:08AM

Move on. Not a seller you should even consider doing business with.

llafoe · June 18, 2011 7:11AM

I think it's a realistic expectation and should be demanded by every seller... pay immediately or your purchase will be cancelled! C'mon, everyone has a Smartphone (from Chicago, not California!)

... just add it to your calendar... while eating, please excuse yourself to pay for the auction. During your management meeting... please excuse yourself to pay for the auction. While spending time with your children at their sports event of family event... please excuse yourself to pay for the auction. It seems like the seller is grounded in reality and someone we all should emulate!

greghansen · June 18, 2011 7:14AM

If I win some of the sellers other items this afternoon (they are all lesser items under $150), I'm going to INTENTIONALLY not immediately pay and see if he cancels those as well. Since they are commodity type circ. CC Morgans I expect they will all go around Greysheet. I agree with the observation that his 'immediate' payment condition is something he employs if he is unhappy with the auction outcome.

Did I mention that the auction I won was a relist from an earlier auction where a bidder had won @ $1,300. That auction ended on June 16, @19:25 PDT.
First 1889-CC auction that seller relisted The seller waited almost 24 hours from the end of this auction before declaring the buyer delinquent. He then relisted the item into the auction that I won at 14:07 PDT on June17.

CircOnly · June 18, 2011 7:14AM

I bet the seller didn't get close to what they were looking for in that auction. The immediate payment jargon is their out if they don't get what they want, IMHO. Forget this seller.

TorinoCobra71 · June 18, 2011 7:23AM

Keep your money and move on. That coin is not even close to an xf40 anyways, SNAD item.

bestmr · June 18, 2011 7:26AM

If I got no reply about why he refunded my money and relist the item, I would definitely give him a neg. He didn't get what he wanted sale wise so he's just being an ass.

johnsim03 · June 18, 2011 7:32AM

I really don't get it. If you want immediate payment, you have to set up a BIN. That's what everyone else does, anyway (who wants
immediate payment, I mean). The guy is clearly using his "terms" (which probably violate - in spirit - eBay's policy for auctions)
to be able to bow out if he doesn't get the price he wants... Auctions aren't supposed to be run like that. I agree with the others -
neg him and never look back...

John

Phaethon · June 18, 2011 7:32AM

<< 

<< Seller deserves a negative feedback rating. It is blatently obvious he was not happy with the hammer price and decided to take his chances with a relist. >>

>>

kaz · June 18, 2011 7:42AM

<< I bet the seller didn't get close to what they were looking for in that auction. The immediate payment jargon is their out if they don't get what they want, IMHO. Forget this seller. >>

I agree! This guy sounds like a kook and a jerk.

BAJJERFAN · June 18, 2011 7:52AM

<< If I win some of the sellers other items this afternoon (they are all lesser items under $150), I'm going to INTENTIONALLY not immediately pay and see if he cancels those as well. Since they are commodity type circ. CC Morgans I expect they will all go around Greysheet. I agree with the observation that his 'immediate' payment condition is something he employs if he is unhappy with the auction outcome.

Did I mention that the auction I won was a relist from an earlier auction where a bidder had won @ $1,300. That auction ended on June 16, @19:25 PDT.
First 1889-CC auction that seller relisted The seller waited almost 24 hours from the end of this auction before declaring the buyer delinquent. He then relisted the item into the auction that I won at 14:07 PDT on June17. >>

HAHAHAHA!! Wait until you can get it for $300 and pay ASAP.

PerryHall · June 18, 2011 7:54AM

<< Seller deserves a negative feedback rating. It is blatently obvious he was not happy with the hammer price and decided to take his chances with a relist. >>

coirn · June 18, 2011 7:55AM

<< 

<< I bet the seller didn't get close to what they were looking for in that auction. The immediate payment jargon is their out if they don't get what they want, IMHO. Forget this seller. >>

I agree! This guy sounds like a kook and a jerk. >>

Yep.
As evidenced by the auction text. Evidenced before placing a bid. Evidenced as the seller states within the auction he has already enforced this policy of his on another bidder.
So, going in knowing this guy is a kook and a jerk, knowing his terms are ridiculous, why bid?
Sellers are pretty much allowed to place various instructions and rules within their auctions as they see fit. It is your job as an adult collector to agree and perhaps place a bid or to disagree and whisper as you're reading the auction, "Wow. This guy's a kook and a jerk. No way do I want to bid on this auction..." and not place a bid.
See, what happens instead is we're attracted to the low price and bid anyway, kind of out of greed.

But, if enough bidders forgo the greed factor and instead think how illogical the seller's terms are very few if any bids would then be in play.
But, disregard that still, small voice within you as you read the auction and bid anyway? Then you're the bigger fool.

mrpotatoheadd · June 18, 2011 8:11AM

If people refused to bid in auctions with terms like the one in question, those sellers would get tired of paying listing fees and either develop more favorable terms or just leave eBay. Either way, it'd be an improvement.

The only thing standing in the way of this is the fact people keep bidding on these kind of listings. So- if you don't like auctions with crappy terms, the short-term (avoiding problems with the transaction) and long-term (encouraging sellers to enact buyer-friendly policies) solution is the same- don't bid.

Bochiman · June 18, 2011 8:23AM

Greg,

The seller is obviously not a good seller and is trying to play games to get his own way.
The text is likely in there because many of his items go for less than he wants and it is his way to let the auction run, hope for what he wants, and then cancel winning bids that he doesn't like.

I don't think that, without a BIN set up to do immediate payment, he can honestly demand immediate payment. That is the 1st warning (sellers that think they can use a system and set their own rules).
The 2nd warning that I saw was that he wants paypal but no echecks. I don't think you can do that on ebay (could be wrong, but I think if you accept paypal, you have to accept all forms of paypal payment).

The auction text, and the picture, also tell me the seller is likely a problem

I would try to work with ebay and see what they say about his demands on the immediate (ie....90 minutes is not quick enough).
Since you have tried to reason with him, and I feel he has been unreasonable, I believe you will find yourself blocked from his auctions.
He deserves a low-star negative, at the very least.

Russ · June 18, 2011 8:34AM

This is one of those sellers that should just get the hell off of eBay. He has no business in any profession that involves customer service. And take a gander at his feedback, and the responses he posted.

Russ, NCNE

AUandAG · June 18, 2011 8:40AM

Reported for price in description. Take that you lousy seller!!!

bob

grote15 · June 18, 2011 8:43AM

I bet the seller didn't get close to what they were looking for in that auction. The immediate payment jargon is their out if they don't get what they want, IMHO. Forget this seller.

Exactly. You can bet that if your winning bid was 2K, he'd give you a week to pay, LOL...this is just his way to run a reserve auction without setting a reserve. Neg him and move on. The prices he'll get should go only lower after that, and he'll get tired of playing games and go away, hopefully..

Edit to add: This loser also scams people by lying in his auction titles, too, Be glad you got your money back. The coin is probably fake or altered, too.

heavymetal · June 18, 2011 8:43AM

I am of the move on opinion. Life is too short to waste. Getting sucked into that guy's universe will give you only headaches. HM

MsMorrisine · June 18, 2011 9:31AM

I WILL ADD INSURANCE AT BUYERS EXPENSE

greghansen · June 18, 2011 9:50AM

O.K. so now I just won his 1881-CC VF25-30 that I had bids on earlier and was waiting for this auction to close before paying for both or whatever I won. This coin came in within $20 or so of its Greysheet bid. I won't be paying within one hour. I will be waiting to see if he cancels this transaction also. I doubt it...but it will be interesting. Yes, I may be a glutton for punishment. Actually I expected him to cancel my bids and block me.

Sellers 1881-CC Morgan I just won.

Pokermandude · June 18, 2011 10:04AM

<< I bet the seller didn't get close to what they were looking for in that auction. The immediate payment jargon is their out if they don't get what they want, IMHO. Forget this seller. >>

Absolutely true. I'd neg this guy so hard, and I have never in my life neg'd an Ebay seller. If he wants to play that game, his feedback is going to suffer.

coirn · June 18, 2011 10:06AM

<< O.K. so now I just won his 1881-CC VF25-30 that I had bids on earlier and was waiting for this auction to close before paying for both or whatever I won. This coin came in within $20 or so of its Greysheet bid. I won't be paying within one hour. I will be waiting to see if he cancels this transaction also. I doubt it...but it will be interesting. Yes, I may be a glutton for punishment. Actually I expected him to cancel my bids and block me.

Sellers 1881-CC Morgan I just won. >>

So now you're just messing around with the dude.
Good show! Good for you!!
As far as being surprised he didn't cancel your bids and block you, he probably figured you were a decent guy who wouldn't play head games with sellers because you don't like the terms of the auction, after reading them and bidding anyway.
I guess he was wrong.

questor54 · June 18, 2011 10:06AM

<< O.K. so now I just won his 1881-CC VF25-30 that I had bids on earlier and was waiting for this auction to close before paying for both or whatever I won. This coin came in within $20 or so of its Greysheet bid. I won't be paying within one hour. I will be waiting to see if he cancels this transaction also. I doubt it...but it will be interesting. Yes, I may be a glutton for punishment. Actually I expected him to cancel my bids and block me.

Sellers 1881-CC Morgan I just won. >>

You won't miss blowmemoneybrandon.

Russ · June 18, 2011 10:06AM

<< I WILL ADD INSURANCE AT BUYERS EXPENSE >>

Yep, policy violation.

Russ, NCNE

Russ · June 18, 2011 10:10AM

<< I ACCEPT PAYPAL ONLY FOR PAYMENT AND "NO E-CHECKS"... >>

Maybe somebody should tell him that he has no choice.

Russ, NCNE

NewParadigm · June 18, 2011 10:10AM

I love it. Not a chance he cancels it.

questor54 · June 18, 2011 10:12AM

Just as long as he doesn't add insurance at the expense of some random dude he picks out of the phone book. THAT would be hard to justify.

Can you file a SNAD before paying?

mrpotatoheadd · June 18, 2011 10:19AM

I don't know what all the complaints are about. Bidders should be grateful when sellers are so upfront with how much of a hassle dealing with them will be before you even bid.

I mean- it's not like he's hiding anything, is it?

slipgate · June 18, 2011 10:26AM

Bid $2k next time, get it, file a SNAD and have the last laugh!

Seriously, this is the way he has of getting out of not putting a reserve on the item.

TheBigB · June 18, 2011 10:31AM

<< I bet the seller didn't get close to what they were looking for in that auction. The immediate payment jargon is their out if they don't get what they want, IMHO. Forget this seller. >>

Exactly, immediate payment was a ruse.

mrpotatoheadd · June 18, 2011 10:33AM

<< Exactly, immediate payment was a ruse. >>

Given that everybody here thinks the same thing, I'm wondering why anybody would be surprised that this happened in the first place.

Manorcourtman · June 18, 2011 10:33AM

<< Seller deserves a negative feedback rating. It is blatently obvious he was not happy with the hammer price and decided to take his chances with a relist. >>

x10!!!

LindeDad · June 18, 2011 10:35AM

eBay won't open a non paying bidder for four days, I think I would wait at least three to pay for that win.

And then you can give him two negs if he cancels, sorry but eBay terms of service override what a seller puts in the auction.

mrpotatoheadd · June 18, 2011 10:39AM

<< sorry but eBay terms of service override what a seller puts in the auction. >>

Does eBay policy prohibit requiring immediate payment?

devious · June 18, 2011 10:45AM

<< 

<< sorry but eBay terms of service override what a seller puts in the auction. >>

Does eBay policy prohibit requiring immediate payment? >>

http://pages.ebay.com/help/pay/require-immediate-payment.html

MarkInDavis · June 18, 2011 10:47AM

Immediate payment is ridiculous. He could just as easily say 5 seconds after auction is too much. Not everyone leads such a dull life that he has time to stare at an auction to watch it end. Neg him to the fullest extent, complain to eBay, and never do business with him again. And don't spend anymore of your life fretting over it.

devious · June 18, 2011 10:48AM

Oh, yeah, I forgot. I would not accept the cancel transaction. I would let him mark his own trail. He can eat his own fees. Ebay would have it this way, too. No need to cancel. He can file a non paying bidder, you can contact ebay, you can explain the cause and show them the messages...let this cost him!

mrpotatoheadd · June 18, 2011 10:49AM

<< http://pages.ebay.com/help/pay/require-immediate-payment.html >>

That's for fixed price listings. Is there a policy that prohibits sellers from requiring immediate payment for auction items?

Discussion of an EBAY seller who refunded 3 of my Paypal payment and relisted all 3 items in new auc

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