1909-SVDBs on Ebay...

cameron12x · May 1, 2011 7:11AM

Why are only a few of the 1909-SVDBs on Ebay actually up for auction and most of the rest are "BIN or Best Offer" auctions?

The ratio seems to be about 9 to 1 in favor of the BIN/Best Offer auctions.

Are sellers afraid of the open auction market for this coin or is it simply a weak market in general for these coins now?

LeeBone · May 1, 2011 7:14AM

I`ve noticed more and more "auctions" are "Buy it Now`s" rather than the good `ol "true auction". Turns me off from bidding.

keyman64 · May 1, 2011 7:15AM

Back in the day there used to be a lot more auctions than buy it nows....the opposite is true today. Has nothing to do with this particular coin IMO.

illini420 · May 1, 2011 7:15AM

it's not just the 1909-S VDB... it's everything on eBay

mrpotatoheadd · May 1, 2011 7:19AM

I don't know about 09-S VDB sellers, but I can tell you why I run fewer auctions than I used to and just put stuff in my eBay store to begin with- a large number of buyers on eBay don't really want to participate in an auction. They want to snipe as the listing ends. I figure if If I'm only going to get one bid per bidder, I might as well list stuff for the 'bid" amount I'm willing to accept in the store and skip running auctions- it's a lot easier that way.

LeeBone · May 1, 2011 7:23AM

I like the thrill of watching the auction as I have bids on it. I have gotten caught up in the frenzy and ended up overpaying for an item which is good for the seller

Zoins · May 1, 2011 7:23AM

My guess is that demand is weaker now in general so auctions don't often realize prices they used to attain a few years ago.

By setting high prices, some sellers can make more money on a single sale vs. a number of true auctions.

keyman64 · May 1, 2011 7:25AM

<< I don't know about 09-S VDB sellers, but I can tell you why I run fewer auctions than I used to and just put stuff in my eBay store to begin with- a large number of buyers on eBay don't really want to participate in an auction. They want to snipe as the listing ends. I figure if If I'm only going to get one bid per bidder, I might as well list stuff for the 'bid" amount I'm willing to accept in the store and skip running auctions- it's a lot easier that way. >>

From what I can tell, David Lawrence lists a mass amount of stuff on eBay with BIN. He seems to always list the item on eBay higher than he lists it on his website to cover his eBay/PayPal fees...so in this example he uses eBay as an advertising medium to get people to his website....and if he happens to sell a coin on eBay every once in a while, great...otherwise it is just a way to advertise what he has.

cameron12x · May 1, 2011 7:28AM

So, what we're seeing is not a "true market" for 1909-SVDDs on Ebay... but more a forum for advertising?

The BIN ratio seems to be higher for this coin than any other that I've seen and by a wide margin.

291fifth · May 1, 2011 7:36AM

The 9-1 ratio is now typical of many eBay categories. Many sellers are dealer wannabees with dreamy notions of how much they can get for their wares.

Even most of the "auctions" have high, often full retail, starting prices.

eBay has fundamentally changed under its current management team ... and not for the better.

mrpotatoheadd · May 1, 2011 7:41AM

<< Even most of the "auctions" have high, often full retail, starting prices.

eBay has fundamentally changed under its current management team ... and not for the better. >>

I don't think current eBay management has anything to do with the popularity of sniping, which is one reason for auctions to have high starting prices.

Zoins · May 1, 2011 7:43AM

In a strong market, auctions and sniping benefit bidders and sellers. Sellers can also live with a degree of uncertainty.

In a weak market, not getting two interested bidders can result in very low realized auction prices for sellers which they are seeking to avoid.

jdimmick · May 1, 2011 7:45AM

Its the market;

people are afraid that the price realized in tru auction will not be what they had hoped. Its all about bullion nowadays. I see the reports from CRO, legend , etc and it appears business is as good as it ever was for the upper end, but that is a different market than typical collector stuff. I can tell you my shop trays are literally empty, becuase nowbody is buying that stuff, I work out of one counter in the store now, the bullion counter.

jim

291fifth · May 1, 2011 7:45AM

<< 

<< Even most of the "auctions" have high, often full retail, starting prices.

eBay has fundamentally changed under its current management team ... and not for the better. >>

I don't think current eBay management has anything to do with the popularity of sniping, which is one reason for auctions to have high starting prices. >>

I have found that very short auctions, 1 or 3 day, now perform as well as or better than the longer auctions for material with a large buyer base. The snipers still snipe, but don't have to wait very long to get results.

Zoins · May 1, 2011 8:05AM

<< Its all about bullion nowadays. >>

There is a flight to intrinsic value and sellers are trying to capture a numismatic premium from yesterday's market.

Zoins · May 1, 2011 8:08AM

<< I have found that very short auctions, 1 or 3 day, now perform as well as or better than the longer auctions for material with a large buyer base. The snipers still snipe, but don't have to wait very long to get results. >>

The main thing about long lead times is to let people notice the item. After they notice it, they are going to snipe anyway.

cameron12x · May 1, 2011 11:06PM

Is it really sniping that is giving rise to this phenomenom?

Wouldn't a person be able to snipe a 3-day auction just as easily as a 7-day auction?

Sure, the lead time would help some folks plan their strategy a bit more, but THAT much more?

And offset this possibility vs. the fewer number of people actually noticing your coin in 3 days vs. 7 days?

From a seller's (and Ebay FEES) perspective, what are the advantages of BIN vs. a true auction, if any?

BigRick · May 1, 2011 11:42PM

'Cause the sellers have no b*lls & are taking shots trying to snare the uneducated/novice collectors.

291fifth · May 1, 2011 11:52PM

<< Is it really sniping that is giving rise to this phenomenom?

Wouldn't a person be able to snipe a 3-day auction just as easily as a 7-day auction?

Sure, the lead time would help some folks plan their strategy a bit more, but THAT much more?

And offset this possibility vs. the fewer number of people actually noticing your coin in 3 days vs. 7 days?

From a seller's (and Ebay FEES) perspective, what are the advantages of BIN vs. a true auction, if any? >>

My point is that the snipers don't have to wait as long to see results. They don't have to sit around for 7 days waiting for the auction to end.

cameron12x · May 2, 2011 12:02AM

<< 

<< Is it really sniping that is giving rise to this phenomenom?

Wouldn't a person be able to snipe a 3-day auction just as easily as a 7-day auction?

Sure, the lead time would help some folks plan their strategy a bit more, but THAT much more?

And offset this possibility vs. the fewer number of people actually noticing your coin in 3 days vs. 7 days?

From a seller's (and Ebay FEES) perspective, what are the advantages of BIN vs. a true auction, if any? >>

My point is that the snipers don't have to wait as long to see results. They don't have to sit around for 7 days waiting for the auction to end. >>

I understand...

So, what you're essentially saying is that sniping may be even more pervasive for 3-day auctions than for 7-day auctions?

If so, then it's better for the seller to have a 7-day auction than a 3-day auction?

johnny9434 · May 2, 2011 4:08AM

<< I`ve noticed more and more "auctions" are "Buy it Now`s" rather than the good `ol "true auction". Turns me off from bidding. >>

people got tired of losing money. jmo

theump · May 2, 2011 4:11AM

I run more buy it now's simply because the buyer has to pay for it right away. No more chasing them down. And, if a buyer doens't pay, the listing automatically gets relisted right away.

In other words, its just easier.

drwstr123 · May 2, 2011 5:00AM

This morning had 74K+ listed under small cents and only 17K were auctions, or 23%.
I'll vote they weren't SVDBs, but tired of losing money.

291fifth · May 2, 2011 5:13AM

<< 

<< 

<< Is it really sniping that is giving rise to this phenomenom?

Wouldn't a person be able to snipe a 3-day auction just as easily as a 7-day auction?

Sure, the lead time would help some folks plan their strategy a bit more, but THAT much more?

And offset this possibility vs. the fewer number of people actually noticing your coin in 3 days vs. 7 days?

From a seller's (and Ebay FEES) perspective, what are the advantages of BIN vs. a true auction, if any? >>

My point is that the snipers don't have to wait as long to see results. They don't have to sit around for 7 days waiting for the auction to end. >>

I understand...

So, what you're essentially saying is that sniping may be even more pervasive for 3-day auctions than for 7-day auctions?

If so, then it's better for the seller to have a 7-day auction than a 3-day auction? >>

No. For popular items there are enough buyers searching "Newly Listed" or "Ending Soonest" to support successful short auctions. When they use this type of search they will find your lots even if they are short auctions. Finding that they are short auctions they place the lot on 'watch" or put in a snipe bid. (This doesn't apply to lots that have very specialized, thin markets. They need more time.)

cameron12x · May 2, 2011 5:42AM

Thanks to everyone for your responses so far... most interesting and educational!

The short of this is that I'm trying to determine the best way to market and sell a particular coin that I have.

(Hint: It's a VF-30 example with a mintage of approximately 484,000)

Is a 3-day auction best on Ebay? A 7-day auction? A BIN sale? A BIN sale w/Make Offer option? Something else?

Or simply list the coin here at BST?

All I want is the fairest and broadest possible market.

Bruceswar · May 2, 2011 6:23AM

As a seller of other items than coins, I will say I love the buy it now option. Rather than waiting 7 days and hoping I get what I want for the item a buy it now can happen 5 minutes after I list the item and then get paid 10 minutes later. Also in this age of instant everything nobody wants to wait 7 days anymore for an auction. They want to Buy it Now. With that said dealers and buyers alike enjoy buy it now more than ever. Me included. Also with a buy it now I can leave items up for 30 days without having to relist them every 7 days. Much better for me, as some of the items I sell are specialized items and people need time to see them. Not everybody is going to be looking for item X within 3 or 7 days.

nankraut · May 2, 2011 6:33AM

<< Thanks to everyone for your responses so far... most interesting and educational!

The short of this is that I'm trying to determine the best way to market and sell a particular coin that I have.

(Hint: It's a VF-30 example with a mintage of approximately 484,000)

Is a 3-day auction best on Ebay? A 7-day auction? A BIN sale? A BIN sale w/Make Offer option? Something else?

Or simply list the coin here at BST?

All I want is the fairest and broadest possible market.

>>

I would offer it here on the forum first. No commissions, and a much more knowledgable/reliable buyer base

joebb21 · May 2, 2011 7:12AM

1909s vdb in ms64 lets say trade regularly at $1,700. If a "true auction" were to take place, the winning bid might end up being $1750-$1800.

The coin would have to sell for $1855 for the seller even to get his $1700.

As the chances of selling for $1855 is quite low, BIN's are the only way to protect your profit or purchase

ajman · May 3, 2011 1:58AM

In my experience I've seen some seller's have coins up for sale for months, maybe even years with a BIN or best offer. It's frustrating sometimes to see the same dreck and stale coins over and over. Why not put it up for auction and move it out? At least with an auction you find out what the real world value is of something. There are several seller's on the bay that consistently run auctions and seem to be doing well.

dac076 · May 3, 2011 2:28AM

In order for an auction to be effective in terms of getting the seller a fair price, it has to get exposure and active bidding. Changes the last few years such as "best match" and TRS sorting, a preference toward fixed price, and generally fewer bidders have reduced the chances an auction will end at market value or better. Couple that with higher fees and many sellers just don't want to risk giving their merchandise away.

ambro51 · May 3, 2011 9:14AM

Especially in these times of alternative investments, many a former coin collector remembers the dream of his youth, the SVDB and on a whim will go to ebay, search SVDB, highest first....and hit the BIN. It happens.

I did it!

questor54 · May 3, 2011 9:16AM

<< Why are only a few of the 1909-SVDBs on Ebay actually up for auction and most of the rest are "BIN or Best Offer" auctions?

The ratio seems to be about 9 to 1 in favor of the BIN/Best Offer auctions.

Are sellers afraid of the open auction market for this coin or is it simply a weak market in general for these coins now? >>

Perhaps they wish to have more control over the price at which they sell. Sort of like on a price list. Or marked prices at a bourse.

JamesMurray · May 3, 2011 9:22AM

<< The 9-1 ratio is now typical of many eBay categories. Many sellers are dealer wannabees with dreamy notions of how much they can get for their wares.

Even most of the "auctions" have high, often full retail, starting prices.

eBay has fundamentally changed under its current management team ... and not for the better. >>

I believe you hit the mark with management , it was a while back now but the quarterly report from ebay stated the new management wanted an Amazon type marketplace rather then what we knew and liked about ebay.The exodus of sellers has been ongoing as is the emergence of many more BST sections on established forums than there was.The buy it now is free to add to an auction , sellers are using it.Personally i don't and start every auction at 99c for 7 days and i'm yet to be disappointed in more years than i care to remember.

mrpotatoheadd · May 3, 2011 10:15AM

<< Why not put it up for auction and move it out? >>

Because not every item for sale has an equal number of people looking to buy at a particular point in time, maybe? The fact there are fewer people looking for certain items doesn't automatically mean those items are worth less than more popular ones.

raycyca · May 3, 2011 11:05AM

I was watching an 09-S VDB on E-bay. AU 55 with a BIN. Last coin needed to complete my set. Ended without a sale. Offered $1100 and it's sitting here right now. Auctions are very risky, unless you have a low POP coin. Then it gets a lot of attention and bids. Not necessarilay key dates.

ambro51 · May 3, 2011 11:49AM

You find the REAL selling prices on popular coins like this with an analysis of the completed auctions. The BINs count as much as the full auctions. Use the figures you get from these prices to determine if your price is accurate.

All these coins are NOT created equal and many a seller certainly knows this and will rather justly price a PQ coin (in his opinon) to the high end of the scale. The upper end has no limit with an svdb since a one point jump in grade can be significant. How much would the owner of the BEST 67 price it if he was sure it was a lock 68? Imagine that BIN?

1909-SVDBs on Ebay...

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