Worked on 1877 IH?

shylock · August 12, 2002 8:14AM

You don't appreciate PCGS's paranoia about copper color until you consider spending several thousands dollars for a key date that winds up being worth less than half that. Their copper guaranty and the frustration it causes is a blessing when you consider the alternatives.

This 1877 SEGS MS64RB just doesn't look "right" to me. Excellent strike for an 1877 -- I've seen much worse on 65 graded PCGS 1877s, as well as a higher % of brown on a few RD graded ones -- and I almost get a net graded feeling about it but without the disclaimer appearing on the label. It looks like a brown coin after a good dipping, with the centers retaining their original color in an unusual, blotchy pattern, filtering out to pure red towards the rims. Coppers don't normally tone this way.

Original or not, it's worth a good price for strike and rarity alone. But I'd never a touch a coin with this appearance in an SEGS slab for more than a raw pricetag. Some nice coins can be found in their holders for great prices, but I've found them to have the opposite attitude of PCGS as far as originality goes. This ANACS net graded 60 IH once was in an SEGS 66RD holder.

clw54 · August 12, 2002 8:36AM

I really enjoy your Indian Head Cent posts, Shylock. Keep them coming.

Pushkin · August 12, 2002 8:46AM

The second coin looks just like my 1876 IH in an ACG slab MS-64 RD (my only ACG coin, I keep it for educational purposes).

toothpuller · August 12, 2002 9:54AM

The SEGS IHC sure looks strange, but the ANACS coin would probably have fooled me. The color doesn't look that bad on the image. Maybe with the coin in hand a lack of luster is the giveaway.

Thanks for the education.

Paul, I mentioned the coin I bought from AA [still in his inventory] in Irish Mike's thread on his visit to the coin show. Don't know if you saw it so I will send it ttt.

I'm sticking to PCGS for now.

Nic · August 12, 2002 10:21AM

Very unnatural look. I would prefer a great strike original AU. We would need to see the coin in person. I'll bet what was done/hidden was in the central obverse and the reverse made to match?Please keep up the educational and informative posts shylock. K

Tonelover · August 12, 2002 10:28AM

My feeling on high grade key dates such as this one is that it's highly likely to have already beem rejected by the more respected grading services. That's why it's in it's current tomb and being blown out on ebay. The blue/green color is likely the result of surface alteration and I wouldn't be surprised if it covers more of the coin down the road.

Cam40 · August 12, 2002 10:42AM

Hmmm.Strange.The reverse characteristics dont jive with what I thought was the determining factor that
authenticates this date.I see no weakness in the lower part of the N in ONE,and upper part of the N in CENT.Could it be a nice counterfeit?

UncleJoe · August 12, 2002 9:40PM

It's hard to tell from the angle in the slab but it does appear that the weakness in the N's is there. This just happens to be an exceptional strike for this date. Now if we could just color it a little better. Joe.

shylock · August 13, 2002 3:38AM

Like Joe said, the shallow N looks stronger than usual only because of the good strike and angle the coin was shot at.

MacCoin · August 13, 2002 4:15AM

hi Paul
what causes the center to turn black like that. by the way I have my first 77 on layaway but it only a G. getting close to having that IHC whitmans folder fill.

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS · August 13, 2002 9:17PM

Shylock,

I love a good detective story.It is even more fun when the story is about Indian cents.To make one salivate even more......an 1877 IH

I own what I consider the finest 1877 IH in existence.Have you seen my coin? I will be exhibiting my Indian cent collection at the Long Beach Coin Show for the "SHOWDOWN". I hope to meet you.

Stewart

shylock · August 14, 2002 4:01AM

Mac -- congrats on your 1877 in waiting! My feeling is the centers are what's left of natural brown toning, the type most of these have throughout.

Stewart -- are you and "Joshua" matching up sets at the Long Beach show? If you are I would give my eye teeth to be there, unfortunately I'm a NYer like yourself (eastern LI) and it will be tough for me to make the trip. I've already missed an opportunity to see the Joshua coins -- the day he had them at the ANA happened to be my birthday (Sat 3rd) and my family had plans for me! Please let me know the details, I know a couple west coast collectors who would find this fascinating. Hopefully we can meet some time at your convenience in NYC.

Is your 1877 the Googleman/Epstein Superior example or some other? Inquiring minds want to know.

shylock · August 14, 2002 6:42AM

After reading the Registry thread you alluded to Stewart I've already made plane reservations. 3,000 miles isn't enough to keep me from this rare opportunity. I'll be there Thursday afternoon and all day Friday.

Worked on 1877 IH?

Comments

Leave a Comment