A very rare upgrade to my trade dollar set
tradedollarnut
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Here is a coin that is very rare indeed - an 1877 trade dollar with fully struck stars. When Laura saw this coin in a dealer's personal collection, she waited years until he was ready to sell. It was graded MS65, but all along she felt it was better than that. I'm happy to report that she was right - I didn't know it, but recently she resubmitted the coin ... and called me up all excited yesterday afternoon. It's now the 17th pop 1/0 coin in my trade dollar set ... out of 18 coins.
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Here's a link to the set with pics and descriptions. I see the old cert # is linked to a half cent???
My trade dollar set
Will this catch on, like full bell lines?
Is it CAC green or gold?
I could go on.....
<< <i>Was it in an older holder? >>
The way that I understand it, tho I may be incorrect, is that the coin was raw for very many years and just recently graded on behalf of the dealer. So no, it wasn't an old holder. For many many years, there were NO 1877's graded gem by PCGS. There was an NGC MS66 that I started a thread on a while back, but nothing over 64 at PCGS.
R.I.P. Bear
What is the new grade of your just acquired '77? MS-66?
Do you consider that the stronger strike in the obverse stars trumps the lesser detail in the eagle's sinister talons?
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
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Sweet looking coin and Congrats.
I'm kinda intrigued by that MS69 half cent though...
I'll just have to be happy with my baggy low 60's pieces.
I did not know that you were still "working" on the TDs--not much work left to do, apparently.
<< <i>I'm confused. The '77 in this thread supposedly upgraded from MS-65 to whatever. The coin imaged in the set you have linked here is obviously not the same coin, and the grade posted for that coin is MS-69(?) Is the MS-69 grade relevant to the 1/2 cent that is on the spreadsheet in the '77 T$1 line?
What is the new grade of your just acquired '77? MS-66? >>
Yes, MS66. Something happened to the cert # once the coin was regraded. Don't know why the Registry is linking a half cent - BJ Searls probably could fix it but it's no big deal.
Do you consider that the stronger strike in the obverse stars trumps the lesser detail in the eagle's sinister talons?
Absolutely. 13 stars on the obverse vs one tiny grease filled area on the reverse? Many, many [many!] 1877's come with no star detail at all. I've only ever seen about a dozen coins with fully struck stars.
<< <i>Are you going to un-retire your set? >>
Probably, yes. Once the new cert # is active so I can add it as well.
<< <i>Wow, nice!
I did not know that you were still "working" on the TDs--not much work left to do, apparently.
I'm only aware of one possible upgrade that I haven't seen. It's a raw coin in the personal collection of a prominent numismatic figure. The graded coins that are higher than mine I have been offered multiple times and have been rejected.
That is not to say that there aren't great specimens lurking out there. I never had heard about the Vermuele 1873-CC until it came up for auction.
<< <i>That 1878-S owns you!
Nope. I rejected it at least twice. It's the 'beauty spot on Cindy Crawford' to my set. Proves I won't just buy a holder ... the coin's gotta be all there, too.
[tho the compulsion to be perfect does still bug me a little - but alcohol helps.
siliconvalleycoins.com
Seriously, monster looking coin with perfect coloration. Other parts of the eagle are not 100% full so maybe that one flat claw was striking pressure vs. grease. ???
The full strike "critics" would probably downgrade it to 64 because of strike (lol). Yet those same guys are "happy" with a micro-split center band Merc dime that has
weaker diagonal bands and weak lower hair curls. Go figure!
roadrunner
<< <i> Other parts of the eagle are not 100% full so maybe that one flat claw was striking pressure vs. grease. ???
>>
I dunno. I don't think that the eagle's claw is the last struck point on a trade dollar ... because 1877's with completely flat stars have the claw struck up. That's why I figured grease...
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
It's totally beyond description!!!!
Congrats TDN!! It would be nice to upgrade that pesky 78-S though!
Congrats on your addition!
<< <i>Were H.R. Linderman around today, I expect your set would put a broad smile on his face. >>
Many thanks. I still have that letter from him to a friend gifting 1873 trade dollars 2-5. They each have a number hand scratched above the eagle's head.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Complete Set of Chopmarked Trade Dollars
Carson City Silver Dollars Complete 1870-1893http://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase.aspx?sc=2722"
<< <i>
<< <i> Other parts of the eagle are not 100% full so maybe that one flat claw was striking pressure vs. grease. ??? >>
I dunno. I don't think that the eagle's claw is the last struck point on a trade dollar ... because 1877's with completely flat stars have the claw struck up. That's why I figured grease... >>
With seated era silver I've always tried to keep the peripherals separate from the centers. It seems you can have one strong and the other weak. Or both strong or both weak.
A small arc from the eagle's wing tips through the claws shows slight weaknesses in 4 spots. I don't know if grease could/should have affected all of them. The corresponding
spots on the obverse would probably be in the fields so it doesn't really show up. But some minute weakness in her central gown details that corresponds to that reverse arc. Judged
by the obverse along one would never figure this for an 1877 Philly.
If that MS68 1878-s got downgraded to 67 would it still be an improvement to your 67?
roadrunner
[img]http://www.pcgs.com/TrueView/Medium/03438693.jpg
It is from the Knoxville Collection and coincidentally was sold at the 1990 Seattle ANA auction alongside my MS67. I do not consider it to be finer than my coin. Although technically the surfaces are slightly better preserved, the toning on the coin is drab and the eye appeal is negative to me. An MS68 should reach out and grab your heart by the strings!
If that MS68 1878-s got downgraded to 67 would it still be an improvement to your 67?
Not in my mind. I grade the two the same net grade ... and go for mine for eye appeal.
<< <i>The "Finer" 1878-S:
Definitely wouldn't fit in Bruce's set.
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<< <i>this is really cool. Advanced collectors can get bored while waiting years for a single upgrade to their series...seems that it was worth it. >>
I think he did get bored, he did the MS Seated Dollars (and almost another complete one...), Proof Seated Dollars (most of em), and Gobrechts and now the monster Type set...
How refreshing!
Wow and stoked for ya buddy!
bob
MINI-HOARD OF 1878-S TRADE DOLLARS
The following mini-hoard of 1878-S Trade Dollars is one of the many highlights offered in the 1990 ANA Sale. The story behind their discovery and inclusion in this sale is incredible. The consignor, (who we will call "Jim") one of the nicest and most pleasant people I've ever had the pleasure of meeting, had elderly next door neighbors that he was very close to. He would help and befriend them whenever the opportunity arose. Little did "Jim" know what was in store. Upon the death of the elderly couple, "Jim" was named executor of the estate - what little there seemed to be - and two requests were made; all financial instruments were to be left to a local university and all personal property would go to the executor. "Jim" went to the bank and opened the safe deposit box. Not expecting to see a great deal, he was taken back by the wealth before his eyes. The wealth however appeared to be all financial and thus left to the university. Among the tens of thousands of dollars in stocks and bonds there was also over $1 million in bearer bonds. Upon removal of all the papers, on the bottom of the drawer, just lying loose, were 25 1878-S Trade Dollars! As wonderful as this seemed, there was a dilemma. Were the coins "financial " and thus property of the university, or were they personal and thus the property of "Jim." After long discussions with the attorneys, it was decided that the coins would be divided equally - with 13 coins going to the university and the remaining 12 coins to "Jim."
The university immediately sold their coins to a local coin dealer. This dealer in turn sold them to a major west coast firm who submitted them to PCGS who in turn graded them mostly MS-65, with a few MS-64's and (2) MS-66. Point of fact: every known 1878-S Trade Dollar grading MS-65 or higher (at the time of this writing) can be traced back to this hoard of 25 coins. The only exception being the lone MS-67, which, as justice would have it, is also included in this incredible sale!
[Price realized: $66k and $51k respectively.]
<< <i>For those who haven't read it, here's a neat story concerning the 78-S
MINI-HOARD OF 1878-S TRADE DOLLARS
The following mini-hoard of 1878-S Trade Dollars is one of the many highlights offered in the 1990 ANA Sale. The story behind their discovery and inclusion in this sale is incredible. The consignor, (who we will call "Jim") one of the nicest and most pleasant people I've ever had the pleasure of meeting, had elderly next door neighbors that he was very close to. He would help and befriend them whenever the opportunity arose. Little did "Jim" know what was in store. Upon the death of the elderly couple, "Jim" was named executor of the estate - what little there seemed to be - and two requests were made; all financial instruments were to be left to a local university and all personal property would go to the executor. "Jim" went to the bank and opened the safe deposit box. Not expecting to see a great deal, he was taken back by the wealth before his eyes. The wealth however appeared to be all financial and thus left to the university. Among the tens of thousands of dollars in stocks and bonds there was also over $1 million in bearer bonds. Upon removal of all the papers, on the bottom of the drawer, just lying loose, were 25 1878-S Trade Dollars! As wonderful as this seemed, there was a dilemma. Were the coins "financial " and thus property of the university, or were they personal and thus the property of "Jim." After long discussions with the attorneys, it was decided that the coins would be divided equally - with 13 coins going to the university and the remaining 12 coins to "Jim."
The university immediately sold their coins to a local coin dealer. This dealer in turn sold them to a major west coast firm who submitted them to PCGS who in turn graded them mostly MS-65, with a few MS-64's and (2) MS-66. Point of fact: every known 1878-S Trade Dollar grading MS-65 or higher (at the time of this writing) can be traced back to this hoard of 25 coins. The only exception being the lone MS-67, which, as justice would have it, is also included in this incredible sale!
[Price realized: $66k and $51k respectively.] >>
My neighbor would leave me 25 Chinese 1878-S Trade Dollars!
wow I am not sure how many more times I can say wow when you upgrade something.
I will work on a new word, until then
I wish you only the best, Have a very Nice Easter Holiday, you & yours.
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
roadrunner