Options
Old Thread - The Picker Method of Grading and Selling Coins
MidLifeCrisis
Posts: 10,550 ✭✭✭✭✭
In the recently published Whitman Encyclopedia of Colonial and Early American Coins, Q. David Bowers writes:
"Richard ("Dick") Picker, trained as an accountant, became a coin dealer in the mid-1950s. His specialties were colonial and early U.S. coins. There were no generally accepted grading standards for colonial coins then (nor are there now). Tired of hearing 'You call it Very Fine, but I think it is only Fine' from buyers, Dick opted not to grade his coins at all. And throughout the rest of his career he never did. He would say, 'That Ryder-9 Vermont is one hundred dollars.' It was not a Very Good coin, nor a Very Fine coin, but instead was whatever the buyer wanted to call it. Simply, it was a $100 coin. Take it or leave it."
Even though I collect slabbed coins - and slabbed coins obviously place an emphasis on a specific grade - I think that, frequently, I evaluate a coin for purchase based on its price more than on the grade advertised on the slab or by the dealer. A few days ago, in fact, I bought a small group of pedigreed colonial coins primarily because I knew the coins, knew the seller, and the prices matched what I thought the coins were worth. I only gave a passing thought to the grade of each coin.
What do you think of this method for buying and selling coins? Do you do this as well?
"Richard ("Dick") Picker, trained as an accountant, became a coin dealer in the mid-1950s. His specialties were colonial and early U.S. coins. There were no generally accepted grading standards for colonial coins then (nor are there now). Tired of hearing 'You call it Very Fine, but I think it is only Fine' from buyers, Dick opted not to grade his coins at all. And throughout the rest of his career he never did. He would say, 'That Ryder-9 Vermont is one hundred dollars.' It was not a Very Good coin, nor a Very Fine coin, but instead was whatever the buyer wanted to call it. Simply, it was a $100 coin. Take it or leave it."
Even though I collect slabbed coins - and slabbed coins obviously place an emphasis on a specific grade - I think that, frequently, I evaluate a coin for purchase based on its price more than on the grade advertised on the slab or by the dealer. A few days ago, in fact, I bought a small group of pedigreed colonial coins primarily because I knew the coins, knew the seller, and the prices matched what I thought the coins were worth. I only gave a passing thought to the grade of each coin.
What do you think of this method for buying and selling coins? Do you do this as well?
0
Comments
You can always get "Genuine" slabbed coins; me myself I try to find coins fit fit into the look of my collection.
i can see how the field of Colonials would be similar in that there is no agree upon scale and the top grade NEVER goes to 70 (for many issues MS examples do not exist at all)
www.brunkauctions.com
peacockcoins
Looking at how a dealer grades coins is a pretty good gauge of their ethics. Check to see if you think the grades are fair. Check to see if they clearly disclose cleaned or problem coins.
merse
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Dick Picker, Cherry Picker and Nit Picker were gathered at the local watering hole one day....
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>This could turn into a skit on late nite television :
Dick Picker, Cherry Picker and Nit Picker were gathered at the local watering hole one day.... >>
<< <i>Dick Picker, Cherry Picker and Nit Picker were gathered at the local watering hole one day.... >>
and they ran into Nose Picker, Tooth Picker and Cotton Picker.
60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!
and sellers where grade is an issue.
The problem with "standardized grading" is that there are no real standards
and it takes collectors longer to catch on. You can't standardize tastes so
you can't standardize grading. (at least not with a single number or single
grade)
*
Did you mean : " whatever the seller wanted to call it" ?
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>...That Ryder-9 Vermont is one hundred dollars.' It was not a Very Good coin, nor a Very Fine coin, but instead was whatever the buyer wanted to call it. Simply, it was a $100 coin. Take it or leave it."
*
Did you mean : " whatever the seller wanted to call it" ? >>
That sentence was quoted straight from Bowers' book. It means that Picker didn't care what grade the buyer wanted to call it. The buyer could insist it was uncirculated and it wouldn't matter. The only thing Picker cared about was that the buyer paid him $100 for the coin (in the example cited).
Old man picker can say whatever he wants but you can be sure that the coin price was right in line with a certain grade that he thought it was. He just didn't want to argue with anyone, that's all.
<< <i>Be careful! When that $100 coin becomes a $120 coin, fc will start proclaiming "gradeflation!"
heh.
Dick priced his coins based on grade but simply did not put a grade
label on it.
Simply know your series and their prices and you can determine exactly
what Dick thinks it grades.
end of story.
Old man picker can say whatever he wants but you can be sure that the coin price was right in line with a certain grade that he thought it was. He just didn't want to argue with anyone, that's all.
exactly.
<< <i>The success of the Picker Method depends on educated collectors. To an educated collector, an assigned grade is meaningless for any coin seen in person. >>
I think this is true.
Here's "the rest of the story" on Picker and his method, according to QDB: "The system worked, and Dick came to be admired by collectors and dealers alike."
QDB goes on to write this about Picker:
"In 1971 his inventory was stolen while in the care of the security service hired by the American Numismatic Association for its annual convention...the coins were never found. I remember that I was considering buying a Theatre at New York token on display for sale in his case, and had examined it, but was not sure if a tiny planchet crack on the lower part of the obverse would deter a future buyer from purchasing it from me. To this day, whenever I see one of these tokens, I check for the planchet crack. A unique white-metal 1792 Roman Head cent obverse die trial was swiped as well and has not been seen since."
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Would this method work with slabbed coins?
As long as the buyer can TRULY disregard the information on the slab and focus ONLY on the coin itself.
Personally, I think a slab (and it's third party opinion) gets in the way of seeing the coin on it's own merits - figuratively and literally.
I've never really given it much thought, but I reckon that's how I've always bought my coins. It's nice to see I'm not the only one!
<< <i>A few days ago, in fact, I bought a small group of pedigreed colonial coins primarily because I knew the coins, knew the seller, and the prices matched what I thought the coins were worth. I only gave a passing thought to the grade of each coin. >>
Yes, but you're talking about the grade on the slab that you disregarded, not your personal grade on the coin. Look at the coin, not the slab? Sounds like the same wise, old methodology...
<< <i>In the recently published Whitman Encyclopedia of Colonial and Early American Coins, Q. David Bowers writes:
"Richard ("Dick") Picker, trained as an accountant, became a coin dealer in the mid-1950s. His specialties were colonial and early U.S. coins. There were no generally accepted grading standards for colonial coins then (nor are there now). Tired of hearing 'You call it Very Fine, but I think it is only Fine' from buyers, Dick opted not to grade his coins at all. And throughout the rest of his career he never did. He would say, 'That Ryder-9 Vermont is one hundred dollars.' It was not a Very Good coin, nor a Very Fine coin, but instead was whatever the buyer wanted to call it. Simply, it was a $100 coin. Take it or leave it."
Even though I collect slabbed coins - and slabbed coins obviously place an emphasis on a specific grade - I think that, frequently, I evaluate a coin for purchase based on its price more than on the grade advertised on the slab or by the dealer. A few days ago, in fact, I bought a small group of pedigreed colonial coins primarily because I knew the coins, knew the seller, and the prices matched what I thought the coins were worth. I only gave a passing thought to the grade of each coin.
What do you think of this method for buying and selling coins? Do you do this as well? >>
I like this method alot and think it has alot of merit. I use it.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>
<< <i>Dick Picker, Cherry Picker and Nit Picker were gathered at the local watering hole one day.... >>
and they ran into Nose Picker, Tooth Picker and Cotton Picker. >>
wonder if they shook hands on the deal
Here's a coin, I grade it $750 (or whatever).
I've always liked the concept, and buy this way, too, not really caring about "grade" as much as being able to pass or play at a certain price.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Grade pricing levels have something to do with this. They simply do not rule. A grade is just a symbolic represention of a quality analysis for the unknowing. It can inform the opinion of a knowledgeable person. Recognizing a consensual reality exists doesn't mean that outlier factors don't enter into one's pricing on particular coins.
Dreck, PQ to whom?
Or maybe
CDN ask Albany AU 260
CDN bid Albany MS64 255
<< <i>Old man picker can say whatever he wants but you can be sure that the coin price was right in line with a certain grade that he thought it was. He just didn't want to argue with anyone, that's all. >>
I don't know if I have ever disagreed with Curly.
I bought a PCGS-price-guide $12 coin the other day for $85. It's spectacular. Don't remember the grade.
Lance.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
(From the Glossary in Breen's Encyclopedia)
This is fairly correct, as a grade is supposed to be a single index number or category which summarizes all the different components
of preservation and appeal to a buyer (or owner).
Usually the different features depend largely on the preservation, and are weighted for the preferences of a median buyer.
In the problem coins, some features are out of line with the others (due to damage or unusual conditions),
so their appeal will vary more by person, which makes them less uniform/fungible, so they don't appear in a standard slab.
Toning is a similar feature whose appeal varies more by collector.
Ron
Edited to add: I sometimes think someone must have snuck into the grading room and slipped the grader a 20.
<< <i>Would this method work with slabbed coins?
Yes! PCGS "Genuine" slabbed coins would be ideal for this method.
- Jim
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
To not determine or consider the grades of coins i was considering buying is not something I would do under almost all circumstances. (If someone offered me a roll of unc buffalo nickels, at face, I probably would not grade each coin, although I would check to make sure they weren`t washers"
To not label your coins that you are selling with a grade is not something I would do.
Old thread...seems relevant today.
Below is Robinson's Brasher Doubloon token, one of 25.......... Ex: Bowers ex: Picker.
Although into PCGS right now for grading I enjoy the true views and plastic protection for investment and enjoyment.
.
CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
.
Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
.
More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
Thanks!