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A $35K lesson .............
2manycoins2fewfunds
Posts: 3,081 ✭✭✭
I was at a small show in SC last weekend and was asked by a friend to sell some uncirculated kennedy 1964 halves, 200 misc. peace and morgan dollars along with around $1000 face in uncirculated 1963-1964 quarters.
He knew from coinflation.com the worth as of Friday PM and was willing to take a significant discount to move them.
I spoke with 2 dealers who quoted X times face. Both were reasonable and close.
When I approached one large dealer and asked what he was paying for uncirculated rolls and he rattled off a price 10% below the other two and way below market.
As I turned and walked away he chased me down with questions about what else was on my little hand truck.
I took great pleasure in telling him to kiss my ass and to go back to waiting for widows with cigar boxes.
He knew from coinflation.com the worth as of Friday PM and was willing to take a significant discount to move them.
I spoke with 2 dealers who quoted X times face. Both were reasonable and close.
When I approached one large dealer and asked what he was paying for uncirculated rolls and he rattled off a price 10% below the other two and way below market.
As I turned and walked away he chased me down with questions about what else was on my little hand truck.
I took great pleasure in telling him to kiss my ass and to go back to waiting for widows with cigar boxes.
0
Comments
<< <i>
I took great pleasure in telling him to kiss my ass and to go back to waiting for widows with cigar boxes. >>
Stay classy!
-Paul
<< <i>Some dealers just don't get it. When I was about 16, I took a pair of AG 1921 and 1921-D Mercs to a local show to try and sell. There was one dealer there who told me they were common dates and he would only pay me 55 cents a piece (the going rate for 90% at the time). I ended up selling the pair for $55, and now every time I go to the show, I have MUCH nicer material, and not once have I stopped back and showed anything to that dealer.
-Paul >>
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My feeling exactly!
The original seller has another 50K or so to sell and now at least I know who not to ask............
<< <i>Some dealers just don't get it. >>
And some do. For example: let's say the two guys right around each other make 5% on their $35k being tied up in the deal for a week. 50% chance of getting the deal with a profit if they do of $1750 = $875 for the opportunity
Now our lowball friend makes 15% but only has a $20% chance of getting the deal: $5250 * .2 = $1050 for the opportunity.
Who is going to make more in the long run ... over multiple opportunities?
<< <i>
<< <i>Some dealers just don't get it. >>
And some do. For example: let's say the two guys right around each other make 5% on their $35k being tied up in the deal for a week. 50% chance of getting the deal with a profit if they do of $1750 = $875 for the opportunity
Now our lowball friend makes 15% but only has a $20% chance of getting the deal: $5250 * .2 = $1050 for the opportunity.
Who is going to make more in the long run ... over multiple opportunities? >>
.........................................
He had a 0% chance and killed any chance of even getting a chance to see the really good stuff to come..............
<< <i>
<< <i>Some dealers just don't get it. >>
And some do. For example: let's say the two guys right around each other make 5% on their $35k being tied up in the deal for a week. 50% chance of getting the deal with a profit if they do of $1750 = $875 for the opportunity
Now our lowball friend makes 15% but only has a $20% chance of getting the deal: $5250 * .2 = $1050 for the opportunity.
Who is going to make more in the long run ... over multiple opportunities? >>
That's a good point.
-Paul
<< <i>He had a 0% chance and killed any chance of even getting a chance to see the really good stuff to come.............. >>
From you, sure.
But there is always another sucker right around the corner.
where was the coin show?
There's some folks on the BST that would be interested in that Ag! Including me, and I live right beside SC in South Ga.
Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
By large dealer, do you mean a bullion dealer or a specialized dealer who doesn't really deal in that sort of material??
If I was set up to handle that sort of thing quickly, my margin would be tighter than if I had to deal with something I wasn't really prepared to deal with (ie: needing to take it to the guy making 5% so we both make 5% on the deal).
Agree with TDN's comments as well.
PCGS Registries
Box of 20
SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
I knew it would happen.
Some dealers may well pay 10% less to them but in return charge them 10% less when they buy from the dealer, and get first shot.
Its kinda of like a wash but the trust each other has is the best part.
when you sell you want the most for your stuff, now what if the dealer wants the most for his coins.... Fair deal?
<< <i>
<< <i>Some dealers just don't get it. >>
And some do. For example: let's say the two guys right around each other make 5% on their $35k being tied up in the deal for a week. 50% chance of getting the deal with a profit if they do of $1750 = $875 for the opportunity
Now our lowball friend makes 15% but only has a $20% chance of getting the deal: $5250 * .2 = $1050 for the opportunity.
Who is going to make more in the long run ... over multiple opportunities? >>
Sooner or later, the low ball dealer is going to run out of customers.
A lowball offer may mean a dealer isn't confident in his trading skills.
It may mean a dealer has capital tied up elsewhere.
Could be the dealer is really busy and has to prioritize higher margin activities.
Or that the dealer doesn't have the requisite knowledge to handle some specialized item.
<< <i>Any dealer who thinks that a guy hauling $35,000 in silver around on a handtruck doesn't know the value of what he is hauling around - is an idiot. >>
The way things are going it won't be long before the little old lady with the cigar box will have $35,000 worth of silver in it!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Some dealers just don't get it. >>
And some do. For example: let's say the two guys right around each other make 5% on their $35k being tied up in the deal for a week. 50% chance of getting the deal with a profit if they do of $1750 = $875 for the opportunity
Now our lowball friend makes 15% but only has a $20% chance of getting the deal: $5250 * .2 = $1050 for the opportunity.
Who is going to make more in the long run ... over multiple opportunities? >>
Sooner or later, the low ball dealer is going to run out of customers. >>
Bingo! Everyone he screws will ten friends and they will ten others. I belong to two coin clubs and the word gets out real fast who pays fair prices and who are the slime ball dealers.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>And some do. For example: let's say the two guys right around each other make 5% on their $35k being tied up in the deal for a week. 50% chance of getting the deal with a profit if they do of $1750 = $875 for the opportunity >>
That might be a bit too simplistic. What if the two guys with better bids generate repeat business and referrals? This create a compouding effect and thereby would increase their volume of business relative to the other guy. All this breaks down if there is an endless supply of customers and your probabilities are constant but I don't think that this is realistic in such a customer oriented business.
<< <i>Lowball offers aren't always intended as personal insults. People take it that way and they shouldn't.
A lowball offer may mean a dealer isn't confident in his trading skills.
It may mean a dealer has capital tied up elsewhere.
Could be the dealer is really busy and has to prioritize higher margin activities.
Or that the dealer doesn't have the requisite knowledge to handle some specialized item. >>
You are exactly right, but customer perception is what matters.
If the dealer uses one of these reasons that you listed, would it not be a better decision to just not make an offer at all. IMO if a dealer says that they can not do it at this time has a lot more respect from me than a dealer that gives me a BS low ball offer.
<< <i>I took great pleasure in telling him to kiss my ass and to go back to waiting for widows with cigar boxes. >>
I hope you're joking and more pleasant words were used. Why not just say "Your price was too low" and let it go at that? Okay, maybe you're done with him and he'll lose your future business. I just don't get the need to be rude.
Lance.
<< <i>Why not just say "Your price was too low" and let it go at that? Okay, maybe you're done with him and he'll lose your future business. I just don't get the need to be rude. >>
Yup. Pass or play. No need to rub it in on either side. Dealer lost the deal, shouldn't that be enough?
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>I was at a small show in SC last weekend and was asked by a friend to sell some uncirculated kennedy 1964 halves, 200 misc. peace and morgan dollars along with around $1000 face in uncirculated 1963-1964 quarters.
He knew from coinflation.com the worth as of Friday PM and was willing to take a significant discount to move them.
I spoke with 2 dealers who quoted X times face. Both were reasonable and close.
When I approached one large dealer and asked what he was paying for uncirculated rolls and he rattled off a price 10% below the other two and way below market.
As I turned and walked away he chased me down with questions about what else was on my little hand truck.
I took great pleasure in telling him to kiss my ass and to go back to waiting for widows with cigar boxes. >>
I felt great just reading this!
Actual exchange was slightly more civil.
Practice makes perfect & nobody is perfect. So, practice being nobody and be perfect !
This almost seems mutually exclusive. If the other guys were near market, then 10% less than them is not way below market. It's lower, but it's not a ripoff.
AND
You may have done yourself a dis-service by the way you approached things. A roll of what? Silver dimes? What's that - $150? So the guy was $15 low - that's not an insult by any means. Perhaps he wants to make $20 on anything he touches - not a bad philosophy at all in my mind. It's actually conceivable that on a $35k deal he may have been higher - many dealers are low on $150 and high on $35k [as point of emphasis - Legend might very well be low on buying a $500 coin but high on buying a $50k coin - simply because of the transaction costs associated with the low purchase].
Your overreaction may have cost you money and you don't even know it.
<< <i>I took great pleasure in telling him to kiss my ass and to go back to waiting for widows with cigar boxes. >>
OMG! LMAO! & WTG!
The name is LEE!
They never seam to!
Of COURSE he is - most operate solo because they CAN'T get along with others (boss, co-workers, etc).
jom
its a good thing.
One of my local shops low balls on silver and gold purchases. And when he gets something he makes a big profit. Unfortunately he has had little in the way of bullion coming into
his shop the past 2 yrs because most know he is paying way too low. Rather than making a $Million profit a year like many local shops are doing in huge volume bullion, he's lucky if he makes $50K-$100K per year on his tiny volume.
roadrunner
<< <i>
<< <i>......
I took great pleasure in telling him to kiss my ass and to go back to waiting for widows with cigar boxes. >>
Wow, he was only off 10%. I could see your reaction if it was 30% off. >>
Did he kiss your ass?
I do not believe that the dealer warranted that kind of response.
<< <i>Lowball offers aren't always intended as personal insults. People take it that way and they shouldn't.
A lowball offer may mean a dealer isn't confident in his trading skills.
It may mean a dealer has capital tied up elsewhere.
Could be the dealer is really busy and has to prioritize higher margin activities.
Or that the dealer doesn't have the requisite knowledge to handle some specialized item. >>
I know I have had people coming into my booth at an antique show when i was busy and probably a few have left thinking "what a jerk,"
don't take it personally and don't be rude, the world has enough rude people.
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
They are an unusual bunch, sometimes their lack of class makes me wonder why they are even in the business.
I know there are exceptions to the rule.
It's either a guy who wants to hit a home run on every deal, or a guy who only wants to deal wholesale at a retail bourse, a guy who has stuff in his case that isnt selling (why are you here?), or the guy who degrades every coin you show them - but his drek in the case is amazing to him.
There is some skill needed in this hobby, but in the current world of PM's running wild, it doesnt take a rocket scientist to set up a table at a show and buy/sell. I've seen a fair number of fools behind tables at shows that i attend.
Oh boy.
<< <i>2manycoins2fewfunds, did you make a sale!!! >>
Good question.
It could be that you get $3500 more from the next dealer or you leave with the coins and hold them until silver drops a few % and end up with less.
What happened?
<< <i>2manycoins2fewfunds, did you make a sale!!! >>
That was my very first thought, but couldnt' express it so graciously, but my thoughts were :
2 out of 3 dealers are fair.
1 out of 3 isn't bad.
That means the owner who was willing to take significantly less should be exceedingly satisified. On a multi thousand dollar deal that adds up to a pretty good thread, anyway.
Practice makes perfect & nobody is perfect. So, practice being nobody and be perfect !
It not always about the money on the surface!!!
<< <i>
<< <i>Some dealers just don't get it. >>
And some do. For example: let's say the two guys right around each other make 5% on their $35k being tied up in the deal for a week. 50% chance of getting the deal with a profit if they do of $1750 = $875 for the opportunity
Now our lowball friend makes 15% but only has a $20% chance of getting the deal: $5250 * .2 = $1050 for the opportunity.
Who is going to make more in the long run ... over multiple opportunities? >>
And, there's no guarantee silver spot will not have dropped when dealer goes to resell them. During a PM bull market customers seem to forget that a dealer is still taking "some" risk with a bullion purchase. Customer is selling to dealer in most cases to catch the perceived market top, but expects the dealer to believe there is more juice left in the market. Lowball dealer might just be seeing less juice in the market.
Governments can print currency. Only the people can print faith in it — and they’re running low on ink.