Ebay ends dangerous coin listing

Frankcoins · April 10, 2011 3:38AM

This is so pathetic.

Dear frankcoins (frank@frankcoins.com),

You recently listed the following listing:

110670511024 - 1873 Arrows Seated Half Dollar Nice Original VF

Unfortunately, we had to remove your listing because the following information violates our policy:

Listings for coins which have not been graded by an approved grading company must adhere to our policies for raw and uncertified coins; sellers may not make any statements that such coins have been "graded" or "certified" anywhere in the listing.

----

What was the violation?

Graded according to The Official ANA Grading Standards for United States Coins, 6th Edition.

crypto79 · April 10, 2011 3:41AM

used to piss me off more when listing fees were higher. I had a NCS listing pulled because I listed it as the "same company and "NGC" in the subtitle

Coinlearner · April 10, 2011 3:54AM

No big deal. I just say "In my opinion" it grades VF-XF-Unc/choice UNC/Gem Unc. Can not put numbers anywhere and can not say "graded". Just put up good pictures and give an "opinion". which ANA "standards" are anyway.

johnny9434 · April 10, 2011 3:54AM

amazing, they sure do know how to drive the people away dont they

123cents · April 10, 2011 4:04AM

<< someone turned u in Frank >>

erickso1 · April 10, 2011 4:07AM

I'm assuming the "graded according to the ..." was the violation. I can see both POV's in this case.

I would say this was more petty then pathetic. But, understand it from their POV. It wasn't stated outloud who graded it, and ebay knowing their customer base, figured someone could misinterpret that to imply that ANA graded it.

Who knows, maybe they just saved you a bunch of time and aggravation from the type of buyer that USAFRETWI had to deal with.

I think coinlearner has it right, some simple adjustments and you'll be fine.

" In my opinion this coin is a VF based upon the grading standards outlined in the Offical ANA.....etc"

Nick

Unknown · April 10, 2011 4:13AM

This content has been removed.

TomB · April 10, 2011 4:26AM

I would imagine this was flagged because someone reported your auction.

grote15 · April 10, 2011 4:41AM

Simply put, you cannot state a grade in the title if the coin is not professionally graded. Personally, I think this is a good rule as, generally speaking, most sellers embellish or exaggerate the grade of a raw coin.

Frankcoins · April 10, 2011 4:41AM

For 30 years, "best practices" in coin advertising is to specify exactly WHAT grading standards you are using (B&D, Photograde, ANA) and not just
"Select BU" (dipped and scrubbed AU, seen for DECADES in double page ads in Coin World from dealers expelled from the ANA.)

Ebay's policies line up with the scam sellers more than those of ethical dealers.

Since eBay handles some $4 billion in coin transactions (dwarfing Heritage and S-B) the risk is that THEIR
policies become the "leading standards"

Ebay has no numismatists on staff, no numismatist ombudsman, no understanding of how their fees make it impossible to
sell numismatic material that is valued mostly by its bullion content (and with the maximum fee going from $50 to $100 soon,
even more so.) Written requests to ebay receive an canned, non-responsive reply from "Heidi" or another fake person.
(How many DSR stars would eBay get for "communication"? Would they be allowed to stay in business UNDER THEIR OWN
STANDARDS?)

The ANA is gun-shy to advise ebay (per a phone call with Alan Herbert) because of the ANA being sued because eBay's flawed
"approved slab" policies of 2007 where for a year eBay sent notices that auctions for coins graded by SEGS and PCI
were ended for "violation of the counterfeit policy."

mrpotatoheadd · April 10, 2011 4:53AM

<< Simply put, you cannot state a grade in the title if the coin is not professionally graded. >>

This is not true. You are not allowed to use a numeric grade in the title, but there is no restriction on non-numeric grades.

LindeDad · April 10, 2011 5:03AM

Just do not use the word "Graded" in RAW coin listings nor any numbers in grade or price opinions.

LeeBone · April 10, 2011 5:05AM

I`m getting as fed up as you Frank. Just a little "too much" !@#$%^ from E-Bay lately. The fees are another story.....

stevkc · April 10, 2011 5:17AM

<< 
Listings for coins which have not been graded by an approved grading company must adhere to our policies for raw and uncertified coins; sellers may not make any statements that such coins have been "graded" or "certified" anywhere in the listing.

What was the violation?

Graded according to The Official ANA Grading Standards for United States Coins, 6th Edition. >>

You are not an approved grading company.

stevkc · April 10, 2011 5:24AM

<< Ebay has no numismatists on staff, no numismatist ombudsman... >>

Exactly, and this is why they defer to the judgments of the leading TPGs. I can't think of many reasons I would ever take eBay's side, but maybe this is one. They recognize the big grading companies as legit. Although you may be as honest as they come, they don't know that, and they don't want you making a definitive statement on grade as a legit TPG would.

So just say, I've been doing this X years, and in my opinion, this would grade X under ANA standards.

ormandh · April 10, 2011 5:29AM

Assinine!

mrpotatoheadd · April 10, 2011 5:29AM

Just a WAG, but I wouldn't be surprised to hear that eBay interpreted the word "graded" in the following:

"Graded according to The Official ANA Grading Standards for United States Coins, 6th Edition."

to mean graded, in the sense of having been submitted to a TPG service.

Frankcoins · April 10, 2011 5:32AM

<< Just a WAG, but I wouldn't be surprised to hear that eBay interpreted the word "graded" in the following:

"Graded according to The Official ANA Grading Standards for United States Coins, 6th Edition."

to mean graded, in the sense of having been submitted to a TPG service. >>

That's exactly what they are doing. By the way, the item specific said UNCERTIFIED

mrpotatoheadd · April 10, 2011 5:34AM

<< That's exactly what they are doing. By the way, the item specific said UNCERTIFIED >>

I'm afraid you're giving eBay too much credit for understanding the coin business.

robkool · April 10, 2011 5:57AM

Another reason why I hate ebay more & more these days...

CaptHenway · April 10, 2011 6:38AM

<< 

<< That's exactly what they are doing. By the way, the item specific said UNCERTIFIED >>

I'm afraid you're giving eBay too much credit for understanding the coin business. >>

I hate eBay!
But I use them to buy stuff........

djdilliodon · April 10, 2011 6:44AM

<< 

<< 

<< That's exactly what they are doing. By the way, the item specific said UNCERTIFIED >>

I'm afraid you're giving eBay too much credit for understanding the coin business. >>

I hate eBay!
But I use them to buy stuff........ >>

Me too but I also sell on ebay

.

savoyspecial · April 10, 2011 6:54AM

Frank,

Given the sum of your experiences with Ebay over the years, i'm amazed you still sell on there

lkeigwin · April 10, 2011 6:55AM

<< You recently listed the following listing:

110670511024 - 1873 Arrows Seated Half Dollar Nice Original VF

Unfortunately, we had to remove your listing because the following information violates our policy:

Listings for coins which have not been graded by an approved grading company must adhere to our policies for raw and uncertified coins; sellers may not make any statements that such coins have been "graded" or "certified" anywhere in the listing.

----

What was the violation? >>

There is no violation in that title.

You are not allowed to cite a numeric grade in the title for a raw coin but saying "VF" is fine. In fact you can even say "VF30" in the body of the auction.

Was there anything in the body of the auction that cites values for certain grades? Any spamming using PCGS, NGC, etc?

Yes, someone turned you in. But I wonder if it was a mistake. You should contact ebay if you see no violation. Below are ebay rules.
Lance.

Raw and uncertified coins
A raw or uncertified coin is defined as any coin not graded by an authorized grading company. Sellers can list these items on eBay as long as:

* A numeric grade (such as MS-65, VF-25) is not included in the title of the listing. A numeric grade can only be included in the item description.
* No grading company is referenced in the title or description.
* No estimate of value (even if personal opinion) or reference to a price guide is included in the title or description.
* The listing includes a photo of the coin being sold. Images that are dark, out of focus, edited, or might be misleading aren't allowed. Also, stock photos aren't allowed.
* Coins that are sealed in original U.S. Mint packaging include a photo showing the actual packaging.

djm · April 10, 2011 6:57AM

Whats pathetic is you are still using baby's first auction site. There are only three type of people on ebay.

1) Ignorant, you don't know you are being ripped off and there are alernatives.

2) Morons, you know you are being ripped off and like it.

3) Scammers

Unknown · April 10, 2011 6:59AM

This content has been removed.

JamesMurray · April 10, 2011 7:06AM

<< Whats pathetic is you are still using baby's first auction site. There are only three type of people on ebay.

1) Ignorant, you don't know you are being ripped off and there are alernatives.

2) Morons, you know you are being ripped off and like it.

3) Scammers >>

Absolute and utter tripe.

Frankiefanatic · April 10, 2011 7:06AM

If you would all quit hyping ebay it was allowed to run like the wild stallion it is and no entity will be able to stop it or even slow it down.

The markets would have to crash for this to happen.

Frankcoins · April 10, 2011 7:22AM

The person doing this seems to be a member (or a reader) here. As soon as I posted this I started
getting emails specifically mentioning the PCGS forum.

TwoSides2aCoin · April 10, 2011 8:48AM

<< Whats pathetic is you are still using baby's first auction site. There are only three type of people on ebay.

1) Ignorant, you don't know you are being ripped off and there are alternatives.

2) Morons, you know you are being ripped off and like it.

3) Scammers >>

TheBigB · April 10, 2011 8:53AM

I still love buying on ebay, it's just not great for coins and selling bullion.

pennyannie · April 10, 2011 2:45PM

<< The person doing this seems to be a member (or a reader) here. As soon as I posted this I started
getting emails specifically mentioning the PCGS forum. >>

Frank- Your fan club on here monitors your auctions 24/7 looking for anything to shut you down. If that fails they get their heavy hitter to call ebay. I have heard she goes by the name of Laura.

I have had a few auctions yanked by ebay. Everyone turned out for the good. They had enough intrest that after ebay pulled the auctions i was able to complete the sale and ebay did not get the fee.

leothelyon · April 10, 2011 3:01PM

If you can list the coin by it's value, a buyer could simply backtrack the value to a grade, no?

Leo

mrpotatoheadd · April 10, 2011 3:02PM

<< If you can list the coin by it's value, a buyer could simply backtrack the value to a grade, no?

Leo >>

You might want to read eBay's rules before trying this.

ArizonaJack · April 10, 2011 3:08PM

To tell you the truth, I am getting tired of Franks whining and sniveling and politics......

Frankcoins · April 10, 2011 3:36PM

<< To tell you the truth, I am getting tired of Franks whining and sniveling and politics...... >>

You know, Jack, I don't post anything here for the purpose of whining or sniveling. Nor do I air personal disputes or
dirty laundry, pleas for sympathy in public. If I mention an issue here, it's because it's a personal well-documented example of general
issue that affects other people as well, and by extension the good of the coin hobby and trade. Sorry you find my posts tiresome.

BigE · April 10, 2011 3:48PM

"Ebay ends dangerous coin listing", you scared me, I thought someone was selling a dime made out of Mercury or something

-------------BigE

leothelyon · April 10, 2011 4:11PM

<< 

<< If you can list the coin by it's value, a buyer could simply backtrack the value to a grade, no?

Leo >>

You might want to read eBay's rules before trying this. >>

You're probably right. The next thing we'll know, all raw coins must start bidding at .01.

Leo

TwoSides2aCoin · April 10, 2011 5:18PM

For the record. ( + 1 )

JupitarCoins · April 11, 2011 6:49AM

You listed the grade as vf, thats a no-no because it was not graded by a tpg one thats ebay approved.

Russ · April 11, 2011 6:57AM

<< You listed the grade as vf, thats a no-no because it was not graded by a tpg one thats ebay approved.

>>

You probably should have read the thread before responding since this was already addressed. It is against policy to list a specific numerical grade. It is not against policy to list something generic like VF.

Russ, NCNE

airplanenut · April 11, 2011 7:24AM

<< You listed the grade as vf, thats a no-no because it was not graded by a tpg one thats ebay approved.

>>

Read the eBay rules. You simply can't provide a numerical grade in the title for a raw coin.

telephoto1 · April 11, 2011 8:23AM

This has nothing to do with the VF in the title. Nothing. We've done 8000+ transactions and most all of the raw coin and currency listings have had a non-numeric grade in the title.

It got pulled because he said "GRADED according to...."
"Graded" was erroneously interpreted by ebay as "certified".
Simply pull that sentence (which is superfluous and unnecessary anyway) and you're fine.

ttxp · April 11, 2011 9:36AM

Only twenty five thousand categories remain where sellers still offer an opinion on an items condition.

ArizonaJack · April 11, 2011 10:23AM

I apologise for my commnt yesterday, I was out of line.

questor54 · April 11, 2011 10:36AM

<< I apologise for my commnt yesterday, I was out of line. >>

In your comment, did you mean me or a different Frank?

ArizonaJack · April 11, 2011 11:33AM

<< 

<< I apologise for my commnt yesterday, I was out of line. >>

In your comment, did you mean me or a different Frank? >>

I criticized the op, I should not have.

leothelyon · April 11, 2011 11:47AM

I think a VF is more precise than, say a VF-20 or VF 25 since the grading of coins is not an exact science and is subjective to a whole chit load of variables. But listing a coin as a VF-20 is not allowed either....correct?

Leo

mrpotatoheadd · April 11, 2011 11:53AM

<< But listing a coin as a VF-20 is not allowed either....correct? >>

Incorrect. You can list raw coins using a numerical grade in the description.

DRUNNER · April 11, 2011 12:12PM

I honestly respect guys like Russ and Jeremy and the others out there who battle the eBay monster and make it work. I check it several times a day looking for Doilies and sometimes I wonder what it would be like to try to sell some of my dupes or dreck on the 'Bay, but I think if I want to, I'll call Russ, Jeremy, or one of our other Forumites who can make this work. I know it is possible, I just don't want to invest the time and hassle to make it go.

I applaud those of you who sell and do well on the 'Bay. I know it is possible and you work your butts off to do it. But for now . . I'll just stay on the 'buy' side.

Drunner
(eBay is my Doily friend)

leothelyon · April 11, 2011 2:39PM

<< 

<< But listing a coin as a VF-20 is not allowed either....correct? >>

Incorrect. You can list raw coins using a numerical grade in the description. >>

Why...thank you! But I haven't listed any coins on ebay for 4-5 years. And I just realized that I past my 5000th post 22 posts ago.

Leo

Ebay ends dangerous coin listing

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The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

My Jefferson Nickel Collection

The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

My Jefferson Nickel Collection

The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

My Jefferson Nickel Collection

The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

My Jefferson Nickel Collection

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