Can I return this eBay item?

commoncents05 · March 25, 2011 10:40AM

I bought an item on eBay, which was listed with no returns. The pics were terrible, and the coin has large spots of discoloration and corrosion. Can I return it and get a refund?

-Paul

ianrussell · March 25, 2011 10:42AM

Link?

JakSunn · March 25, 2011 10:43AM

You can ask the seller if he'll accept it back. If not, you will have to file a "significantly not as described" complaint, which due to Ebay's computer programs algorithms, they will automatically find in your favor and the seller will be forced to accept the item back. That said, it's much easier if you just ask him to take it back and he says yes.

dollarsandcents · March 25, 2011 10:47AM

<< I bought an item on eBay, which was listed with no returns. The pics were terrible, and the coin has large spots of discoloration and corrosion. Can I return it and get a refund?

-Paul >>

Here's a crazy idea: why not ask the person you bought it from?

How can anyone who was not a party to your transaction possibly answer your question?

AUandAG · March 25, 2011 10:48AM

Yes, of course you can. Just let the seller know that the item was not as
described in the auction. The condition of a coin is paramount to the
price of the coin and you'd like him to refund upon return.

I bet he'll do that if he can read between the lines.

If it's under $250 in value you just need a delivery confirmation and above
the $250 you need a signature confirmation upon return.

bob

epcjimi1 · March 25, 2011 10:49AM

I think the OP is making a funny.

mrpotatoheadd · March 25, 2011 11:21AM

1. Sellers should describe their coins properly.
2. Buyers shouldn't bid on "no returns" listings if they want to be able to return an unsatisfactory coin.

Item not as described? If the coin looked butt-ugly in the picture and turned out to be a screaming gem, would you (in general- not directed at any specific poster) be whining that the coin was misdescribed and demand to be able to return it? I think everybody knows the answer to *that* question.

drwstr123 · March 25, 2011 11:27AM

It makes no difference if the auction states "No Returns".
If the item is SNAD, you get your money back.
Bear in mind you may be presenting your case to a non-numismatic person.

pontiacinf · March 25, 2011 11:28AM

BigE · March 25, 2011 11:30AM

No, you agreed to no returns when you bid-------BigE

mrpotatoheadd · March 25, 2011 11:31AM

<< I bought an item on eBay, which was listed with no returns. The pics were terrible... >>

Why did you bid?

tightbudget · March 25, 2011 11:32AM

Even though it said no returns, it's worth a shot to ask. The worst thing the seller will say is no.

Bochiman · March 25, 2011 11:33AM

<< No, you agreed to no returns when you bid-------BigE >>

I'd like to see a link to the auction in question before I get that conclusive.
If the pictures were truly terrible, I would look to the text in the auction to see if any issues were called out.
Not everyone can take great pictures.

Is the seller a seller of coins or was this a 1-off? If they seem to know what they are selling, and didn't call out the problems, and the terrible pictures seem on purpose, then I would lean towards a SNAD and ask the seller for a return.

If the seller is deceptive, they shouldn't be able to hide behind doing a crappy auction to sucker folks in.

Again, until I see the auction, it is just speculative on what I would suggest doing.

mrpotatoheadd · March 25, 2011 11:37AM

<< If the seller is deceptive, they shouldn't be able to hide behind doing a crappy auction to sucker folks in. >>

What kind of folks can be suckered into bidding on "no returns" listings with recognizably terrible pictures?

Just wondering...

BigE · March 25, 2011 11:44AM

<< 

<< No, you agreed to no returns when you bid-------BigE >>

I'd like to see a link to the auction in question before I get that conclusive.
If the pictures were truly terrible, I would look to the text in the auction to see if any issues were called out.
Not everyone can take great pictures.

Is the seller a seller of coins or was this a 1-off? If they seem to know what they are selling, and didn't call out the problems, and the terrible pictures seem on purpose, then I would lean towards a SNAD and ask the seller for a return.

If the seller is deceptive, they shouldn't be able to hide behind doing a crappy auction to sucker folks in.

Again, until I see the auction, it is just speculative on what I would suggest doing. >>

The OP knows coins, looks at crappy pics and reads the no return policy and bids to win the coin. You may need more info., not me. People are responsible for their own actions-period------------BigE

mrpotatoheadd · March 25, 2011 11:46AM

<< People are responsible for their own actions-period------------BigE >>

New to eBay, are you...

BigE · March 25, 2011 11:48AM

<< 

<< People are responsible for their own actions-period------------BigE >>

New to eBay, are you...

>>

Well, yeah

OP does say "can" he return it, and I guess he can-because thats e-bay. Should he is a whole other thing

-------BigE

mrpotatoheadd · March 25, 2011 11:51AM

<< Should he is a whole other thing

-------BigE >>

I agree.

It's bidders like this who allow sellers like this to exist on eBay.

commoncents05 · March 25, 2011 11:52AM

Seller's photos:

My photos:

-Paul

mrpotatoheadd · March 25, 2011 11:54AM

So- if the photos were terrible (you said so in your first post), why did you bid?

edited to add... I see from the eBay listing that you didn't ask any questions about this coin with the terrible pictures. Why not?

Russ · March 25, 2011 11:57AM

No way I would have bought a key based on those crappy images.

Russ, NCNE

BigE · March 25, 2011 11:59AM

If responsibility is a point in question here, seller may have relied on NGCs guarantee, if that is the case, work it out with them----------------BigE

mrpotatoheadd · March 25, 2011 12:01PM

From the eBay listing:

"UP FOR AUCTION IS A 1877 INDIAN HEAD PENNY. I JUST SENT THIS COIN OUT TO BE GRADED BY NGC. IT CAME BACK AS A XF45BN."

If the buyer got an NGC XF45BN coin, I'm missing the "not as described" part here.

OzzyAndy · March 25, 2011 12:07PM

I'm no grading expert but I can't see how that can be an XF coin. If it is then I've got a huge amount of coins in that condition or better that I'll have to reconsider grades for.

mrpotatoheadd · March 25, 2011 12:09PM

<< I'm no grading expert but I can't see how that can be an XF coin. >>

Then the OP's beef is with NGC, not the seller. Aside from saying "THIS IS A VERY RARE KEY DATE COIN", the seller didn't hype the coin (or its condition) at all.

Raybo · March 25, 2011 12:10PM

Do I see corrosion?

llafoe · March 25, 2011 12:26PM

<< Do I see corrosion?

>>

That is a fugly coin... looks like it has verdigris... and doesn't have the eye appeal of a VF25!

mrpotatoheadd · March 25, 2011 12:33PM

Has anybody taken the time to look at the seller's other listings (current and closed) to see what the guy typically sells? It might be instructive.

MsMorrisine · March 25, 2011 12:38PM

<< Has anybody taken the time to look at the seller's other listings (current and closed) to see what the guy typically sells? It might be instructive. >>

no offense intended but packrat and the list of things the guy sells goes hand-in-hand.

I'm with the rest of the crowd. Ask about returning it, and use some good coin knowledge to explain the situation. I dunno.... does NGC have a grade guarantee????

mrpotatoheadd · March 25, 2011 12:42PM

<< no offense intended >>

None taken.

<< ...but packrat and the list of things the guy sells goes hand-in-hand. >>

If only there were *some way* to determine this sort of thing before one bids. Oh- wait... nevermind.

nccoin · March 25, 2011 12:49PM

If the seller refuses to refund, you are stuck with it. Slabbed by NGC, can not qualify as not as described.

MsMorrisine · March 25, 2011 12:52PM

I know, but sometimes problems develop in the holder.

mrpotatoheadd · March 25, 2011 12:55PM

<< I know, but sometimes problems develop in the holder. >>

Why is that the seller's problem? He advertised an NGC graded coin and apparently delivered it. That it wasn't what the buyer expected is not the seller's fault. Looks like the only way to win a "not as described" claim is to lie.

Chump4Change · March 25, 2011 1:08PM

Both seller and buyer are at fault here, and both lose equally (shipping and packaging) all because the seller didn't provide clear and detailed pictures/description of the item they're selling, and the buyer never asked for better. Return the coin and lesson learned by both.

-c4c

MsMorrisine · March 25, 2011 1:14PM

<< 

<< I know, but sometimes problems develop in the holder. >>

Why is that the seller's problem? He advertised an NGC graded coin and apparently delivered it. That it wasn't what the buyer expected is not the seller's fault. Looks like the only way to win a "not as described" claim is to lie. >>

It's not, but maybe the seller is a nice person and will consider a kind and thoughtful appeal.

mrpotatoheadd · March 25, 2011 1:15PM

<< ... because the seller didn't provide clear and detailed pictures/description of the item they're selling... >>

How do you know the seller *didn't* think he was providing a proper description?

From NGC's website:

THE BENEFITS OF OWNING NGC COINS
NGC is recognized for consistent, accurate grading.

Because of this NGC graded coins are readily accepted by authorized NGC member/dealers as well as other dealers across America and around the world.

I think it's unreasonable to expect that someone who is not experienced in the area of coin collecting/selling would know any better.

<< It's not, but maybe the seller is a nice person and will consider a kind and thoughtful appeal. >>

From someone who read and ignored his auction terms? Maybe so. Who knows?

Bochiman · March 25, 2011 1:30PM

Gotta say, with those pictures in the auctions, and the BIG BOLD TEXT in the listing, I wouldn't have spent 5 seconds on the auction, much less any bidding.

bestday · March 25, 2011 1:52PM

bad photos ..bad bidding.. just chalk it up as experience

IHC08 · March 25, 2011 1:58PM

I don't know if you can return it for a refund, but you shouldn't. The coin is exactly what was described.

123cents · March 25, 2011 2:07PM

The bad photos and feedback record of this seller would have send me elsewhere.

Bochiman · March 25, 2011 2:08PM

<< edited to add... I see from the eBay listing that you didn't ask any questions about this coin with the terrible pictures. Why not? >>

And, praytell, how are you so certain about that?
From what I see on the listing, no questions were asked/answered and made public. Isn't it still true that the seller has the option to "publish" the questions/answers, OR NOT?

When I used to sell more often, I didn't always publish all the questions, for different reasons, but generally because I wanted folks to ask me anything, in their own words and my answer to them, rather than misinterpret something someone else may have asked.
Besides, a "your pictures SUCK...is the coin really crappy or will it be nice" type of question isn't always the best to publish, no matter what

pennyannie · March 25, 2011 2:13PM

You bid, you won and then you lost. You got a nicer coin than bid on. You can barely tell it is a coin in the sellers pictures. SELLER DID NOTHING WRONG but he is leaving money on the table by listing his stuff with lousy pics.

If you like, return it if you believe that you do not have to be responsible for your actions and the rules apply to others.

You could take a new picture and relist the coin on ebay with no reserve and no returns and let it go. It will sell, you may even get more money than you paid.

In the future stay away from no return ebay auctions with bad pics.

MsMorrisine · March 25, 2011 2:15PM

and to take the "turned in the holder" a bit further...

if the seller doesn't sell many coins, and has one that's turned, would they know it?

If it were MS70/PR70 silver with spots that had developed , then the grade does not describe the coin.

I will put it forth here that XF45 doesn't match the grade and thus "isn't as described."

what do you have to say about that?

mrpotatoheadd · March 25, 2011 2:17PM

<< And, praytell, how are you so certain about that?
From what I see on the listing, no questions were asked/answered and made public. Isn't it still true that the seller has the option to "publish" the questions/answers, OR NOT? >>

You're exactly right. My mistake.

It would be helpful in this discussion if the OP would post the questions he did ask the seller, and the answers he received.

mrpotatoheadd · March 25, 2011 2:22PM

<< I will put it forth here that XF45 doesn't match the grade and thus "isn't as described."

what do you have to say about that? >>

I say... NGC apparently found the coin to be XF45 according to their standards- otherwise, they wouldn't have holdered it as such, right? Why is *anybody* (you- me- the seller) accountable for what NGC says the grade is, if the coin is described solely based on NGC's grading designation?

edited to add... what's the point of TPGs anyway, if not to provide a disinterested opinion regarding grade? If the owner of a coin is obligated to provide the correct grade ("correct" according to the buyer in this case, apparently, since he's not happy with the grade the seller or the TPG provided), why bother with sending the coin in for grading in the first place?

Chump4Change · March 25, 2011 2:55PM

<< 

<< ... because the seller didn't provide clear and detailed pictures/description of the item they're selling... >>

How do you know the seller *didn't* think he was providing a proper description?

From NGC's website:

THE BENEFITS OF OWNING NGC COINS
NGC is recognized for consistent, accurate grading.

Because of this NGC graded coins are readily accepted by authorized NGC member/dealers as well as other dealers across America and around the world.

I think it's unreasonable to expect that someone who is not experienced in the area of coin collecting/selling would know any better. >>

Neither of us can make assumptions on what the seller does or does not know, because how certain are you that seller is not experienced in the area of coin collecting? Bottom line, is the seller failed to provide detailed images that reflect the true cosmetic condition of the coin (grade and eye appeal are not the same) and the buyer failed to request them and ask questions. Like I said earlier, no harm, no foul...return the coin, get a refund and each learns their lesson (rather cheaply at that)...and the seller relists the coin with more detailed pics/description, and the buyer knows to request better images and to ask questions before making an online purchase.

-c4c

mrpotatoheadd · March 25, 2011 3:01PM

<< Neither of us can make assumptions on what the seller does or does not know, because how certain are you that seller is not experienced in the area of coin collecting? >>

I can make assumptions based on the seller's other listings- anybody can. Maybe they're right, maybe not. But you have to start somewhere.

<< Bottom line, is the seller failed to provide detailed images that reflect the true cosmetic condition of the coin (grade and eye appeal are not the same)... >>

The seller didn't discuss cosmetic condition or eye appeal. He advertised an XF45 NGC coin and apparently delivered one.

<< ... and the buyer failed to request them and ask questions. >>

That seems to be the case.

<< Like I said earlier, no harm, no foul...return the coin, get a refund and each learns their lesson (rather cheaply at that)... >>

Why should the seller accept a return of an accurately described item when his terms stated "no returns"?

Broadstruck · March 25, 2011 3:35PM

<< No way I would have bought a key based on those crappy images >>

Frankcoins · March 25, 2011 6:35PM

NO RETURNS was part of the contract. If you don't like those terms, don't bid. If you bid ANYWAY, take responsibilty for your actions, deal with it or take it up with the grading service's guarantee.

timber100 · March 25, 2011 9:05PM

<< 

<< Neither of us can make assumptions on what the seller does or does not know, because how certain are you that seller is not experienced in the area of coin collecting? >>

I can make assumptions based on the seller's other listings- anybody can. Maybe they're right, maybe not. But you have to start somewhere.

<< Bottom line, is the seller failed to provide detailed images that reflect the true cosmetic condition of the coin (grade and eye appeal are not the same)... >>

The seller didn't discuss cosmetic condition or eye appeal. He advertised an XF45 NGC coin and apparently delivered one.

<< ... and the buyer failed to request them and ask questions. >>

That seems to be the case.

<< Like I said earlier, no harm, no foul...return the coin, get a refund and each learns their lesson (rather cheaply at that)... >>

Why should the seller accept a return of an accurately described item when his terms stated "no returns"? >>

The seller knew enough about coins to send the coin to NGC to get graded, he also took a close-up clear picture of the NGC label, but did not use the rest of the picture to show the coin below the label. It sure looks like he knew a clear picture of the coin would hurt the sale, IMO the seller was out to clip someone.

Text

PerryHall · March 25, 2011 10:09PM

Paul---What kind of feedback are you planning to give this seller?

Can I return this eBay item?

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