Can one hire a coin dealer to ...

C0inCollect0r · March 18, 2011 4:10AM

Hi folks,

I was just curious if it is common (or at least possible) to hire a coin dealer who is particularly skilled at grading to examine auction lots on your behalf to assess whether they are original, in fact problem-free, and/or high-end for the grade? I am becoming somewhat tired of purchasing coins that are deemed by CAC and others to be "low end" and would be interested in such a service if it's out there.

If anyone has done this in the past, may I ask what a reasonable rate to pay for such a service would be? Are there any particular dealers you are aware of who do this and who are very skilled graders?

As an additional note, I am mainly focusing right now on rarer date Morgan Dollars specifically.

Thanks as always for any advice.

llafoe · March 18, 2011 4:12AM

Absolutely... very common. Mark Feld comes to mind... wait, nevermind!

In all seriousness, if you are looking for an expert in a certain series, post here and they will come. It doesn't even have to be a dealer, a lot of collectors are very knowledgeable too.

RYK · March 18, 2011 4:13AM

Many dealers do this, and most only charge in the range of 5% for lots won.

Pistareen · March 18, 2011 4:13AM

The standard rate among most dealers for this service is 5% of the hammer price, though some charge more or less. Pretty much everyone who's ever been burned from a blind bid will agree it's money well spent.

I offer this service for items in my specialty -- so I'm guessing I wouldn't be the guy for you. Also, you may be better off with a smaller dealer / sole proprietor, as folks with bigger inventories are more likely to just buy a nice coin and make their usual margin than representing you for 5%.

If you're trying to buy coins that will get stickered, though, why not just bid on coins with stickers on them?

Caleb · March 18, 2011 4:13AM

Yes. Several members here and a few that have been booted will do it for you, usually for a small fee.

FilamCoins · March 18, 2011 4:16AM

Many dealers will do this.

This is the only way to go if you cannot view lots in person.

I normally pay 3-7% of hammer, but rates are negotiable.

Find a dealer you trust and let him or her know which coins you want checked out and what your max bid will be (or let said trusted dealer decide bid for you).

MikeInFL · March 18, 2011 4:25AM

FWIW, Mr. Feld has reviewed auction lots for me and never charged me a penny. Of course, I've bought a few coins from him over the years.

LoveMyLiberty · March 18, 2011 4:25AM

<< Also, you may be better off with a smaller dealer / sole proprietor, as folks with bigger inventories are more likely to just buy a nice coin and make their usual margin than representing you for 5%. >>

Would 5'1" be okay?

Lakesammman · March 18, 2011 4:26AM

As noted, the key is to find someone who won't stick you with a dog just to earn the commission - I've trusted Pistareen in the past and would do so again.

TomB · March 18, 2011 4:48AM

Many dealers charge nothing to screen an auction lot and will only charge a percentage if you win the lot. My area of interest is not Morgan dollars or I would willingly offer to help. Others specialize in that area and would be a better match for you.

Lakesammman · March 18, 2011 5:03AM

Based on personal experiences, find someone who:

Will tell you the truth about the coin.
Help you decide what it's worth.
If they're bidding against you or for others, they will be upfront about it.
Won't charge you $$ to NOT bid against you.
Won't bid on the side or encourage others to bid just to make a larger commission.
Will keep your communications with them in confidence.
etc.

RichieURich · March 18, 2011 5:21AM

As a dealer, I do this normally only for coins in my specialty area. The charge is 5% of hammer for lots won.

Probably the best investment you can make is to NOT get stuck with a low-end coin for which you paid full price!

ColonelJessup · March 18, 2011 9:21AM

I'll do it for 5% on the 1st 100k and 3% on all lots above that in any month's buying. Serious enquiries only and a couple of expensive coins for free. You will pay for my passion for virtue and knowledge of quality and rarity. PM's only.

I have been known to give a free opinion or three to collectors who can't make an auction. I am worthless on moderns.

I also give excellent advice on raw fish.

Ask Her.

Teva · March 18, 2011 9:33AM

At the end of the day its just another opinion.
You would do better to sharpen your skills.
Having someone else do it for you takes all
the fun out of it.IMHO

RichieURich · March 18, 2011 12:27PM

<< At the end of the day its just another opinion.
You would do better to sharpen your skills.
Having someone else do it for you takes all
the fun out of it.IMHO >>

Well, let's see. The last coin I bought for someone this way cost about $2,000. At 5% my commission was $100.
How much would it have cost my client to fly to the auction location, rent a hotel room, pay for meals and incidentals?
Probably quite a bit more than $100. Also, my client has a "real job" where he can't take a couple days off every time an auction comes up with a coin he is interested in.

I would say for $100 my client was much better off than attending the auction himself.

MidLifeCrisis · March 18, 2011 1:12PM

I agree with Pistareen and RichieURich completely. Paying a specialist dealer to do this for you is money well spent.

Online auctions are nice but the quality of their pictures varies. Don't kid yourself into thinking you can always do better by viewing and bidding on a coin online yourself vs a dealer who sees a coin in hand, no matter how good a grader you think you are.

ajman · March 19, 2011 3:49AM

<< 

<< At the end of the day its just another opinion.
You would do better to sharpen your skills.
Having someone else do it for you takes all
the fun out of it.IMHO >>

Well, let's see. The last coin I bought for someone this way cost about $2,000. At 5% my commission was $100.
How much would it have cost my client to fly to the auction location, rent a hotel room, pay for meals and incidentals?
Probably quite a bit more than $100. Also, my client has a "real job" where he can't take a couple days off every time an auction comes up with a coin he is interested in.

I would say for $100 my client was much better off than attending the auction himself. >>

So are you saying that you'll pay all the expenses associated with flying to the auction location, rent a hotel room, etc, etc. for just a measly $100?

RYK · March 19, 2011 3:54AM

<< 

<< 

<< At the end of the day its just another opinion.
You would do better to sharpen your skills.
Having someone else do it for you takes all
the fun out of it.IMHO >>

Well, let's see. The last coin I bought for someone this way cost about $2,000. At 5% my commission was $100.
How much would it have cost my client to fly to the auction location, rent a hotel room, pay for meals and incidentals?
Probably quite a bit more than $100. Also, my client has a "real job" where he can't take a couple days off every time an auction comes up with a coin he is interested in.

I would say for $100 my client was much better off than attending the auction himself. >>

So are you saying that you'll pay all the expenses associated with flying to the auction location, rent a hotel room, etc, etc. for just a measly $100? >>

Of course, not. He's saying he is going to be there anyway, at the show, often with a table, looking at auction lots for himself and for others.

derryb · March 19, 2011 3:57AM

Or, you could buy coins that have already been authenticated by a reputable grading company.

RWB · March 19, 2011 4:15AM

...but I tried to hire one to "do windows" and was told "No, we do slabs not windows or floors, either."

RYK · March 19, 2011 4:23AM

<< Or, you could buy coins that have already been authenticated by a reputable grading company. >>

Ha!

roadrunner · March 19, 2011 6:58AM

Or, you could buy coins that have already been authenticated by a reputable grading company.

These days, buying slabbed/unstickered coins at auction without having seen them first hand, or had a rep view them, is akin to buying raw....much like the pre-1986 days. A one third to one half grade difference these days can mean a 20-50% differential on the price. Think about it. The difference between a 65.4 and a 65.2 is potentially huge. Same for a 65.4 to a 65.6. Maybe not quite as critical on circ coins, but even there the surfaces have to be right to be worth all the money. And you can't always tell that from photo.

For every bargain that a collector might be able to pick off and save on the 5% fee, will probably be lost 5X over on the one burial they will inadvertently purchase. It only
takes 1 marginal coin in every 5 or so to ensure you lose.

Carefully select your dealer however. There are many out there who do little more than raise a paddle on your behalf and couldn't tell a PQ coin from a low end one.

roadrunner

OnTheHunt · March 19, 2011 7:21AM

<< ---- Think about it. The difference between a 65.4 and a 65.2 is potentially huge. Same for a 65.4 to a 65.6. ---- >>

I sure do miss the days when new coins were unc, choice, gem and superb.

Steve

joecopper · March 19, 2011 7:37AM

I have used dealers to bid for me for several years. The cost is 5% of hammer and worth every penny when you figure the costs of going to an auction.
Since I do copper, Tom Reynolds and Doug Bird bid for me and have done a great job - they call ahead of the auction with their grades and we discuss a strategy.
They will even stretch the bid where appropriate. I have even said that a coin has "my name on it" and have confidence that they will protect me from myself.
In one instance on a Wreath Cent Reynolds informed me that he went well over the bid and would take the coin if I did not want it - ir was a Dandy VG. I kept it and
am up at least almost double the purchase price. You just need to use honest people with whom you have a good working relationship.

derryb · March 19, 2011 8:50AM

<< Or, you could buy coins that have already been authenticated by a reputable grading company.

These days, buying slabbed/unstickered coins at auction without having seen them first hand, or had a rep view them, is akin to buying raw....much like the pre-1986 days. A one third to one half grade difference these days can mean a 20-50% differential on the price. Think about it. The difference between a 65.4 and a 65.2 is potentially huge. Same for a 65.4 to a 65.6. Maybe not quite as critical on circ coins, but even there the surfaces have to be right to be worth all the money. And you can't always tell that from photo.

For every bargain that a collector might be able to pick off and save on the 5% fee, will probably be lost 5X over on the one burial they will inadvertently purchase. It only
takes 1 marginal coin in every 5 or so to ensure you lose.

Carefully select your dealer however. There are many out there who do little more than raise a paddle on your behalf and couldn't tell a PQ coin from a low end one.

roadrunner >>

I'll stick with the consensus of three professional graders at PCGS.

keets · March 20, 2011 4:44AM

i don't think Mike asked coinguy1 to do it for free, i think he did/does it as a courtesy like that due to their working relationship..................but i think you know that, or should. what's up??

Can one hire a coin dealer to ...

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