NewP(s): Opinions on these 2 1847 Large Cents

RunnersDad · March 11, 2011 1:33AM

I picked these up and am overall pleased with the looks of the coins although I am not certain on potential grades and the newcomb variety of the second coin. Any comments are appreciated.

1847 Large Cent RB Newcomb 1 R-3 RPD ....I believe I have the variety right, thoughts on grade?

1847 Large Cent Brown .... I am not sure of the Newcomb variety on this one as it doesn't look like there is a RPD. Thoughts on variety and grade?

Walkerguy21D · March 11, 2011 3:29AM

Might just be the photos, but it appears both coins may have been recolored - but perhaps not. I know copper is hard to photo well.
The first coin appears to be mint state - I see no signs of actual wear. I don't see much in the way of marks (but the lint makes it a little harder to see them). Edited to modify - Recolored on the first coin is probably incorrect, but perhaps a very old cleaning were performed, and it has been retoning for many years.
Some of the greenish spots may be active, so I would recommend a carefeul acetone treatment. The repunched date is WAY cool!
MS-something commercially, possible genny holder if submitted, probably AU50+ by EAC standards, but you need an expert opinion.

Second coin - possibly recolored, AU50 details.

LoveMyLiberty · March 11, 2011 5:06AM

You are right on the 1st coin, it being an N-1 with all digits repunched.
It is listed in the Naftzger sale as an R-2. Yours appears to be an
earlier die state as the die cracks around the rev edge have not developed
quite yet. I wouldn't try to grade from these photos. It's unfortunate
about the verdigris.

Coin #2 , I believe is an N-14, R-3+, with faint rev. die cracks at TE & ME &
O F . There should be some tiny die lines from the dentils left of S1.
Again, I can't estimate a grade from the images, but probably what Walkerguy21D
said.

joecopper · March 11, 2011 5:36AM

I agree with Wallker - I think that both are recolored (based on pics) and the green stuff on the first needs attention.
My EAC grades - #1 55/45+ (get rid of green w/o trouble could net higher)
# 2 40+/35+

RunnersDad · March 11, 2011 7:48AM

As always, thanks for the information guys! Do you suggest a qtip and acetone for the verdigras or a full dip?

Raybo · March 11, 2011 8:06AM

Full dip followed by a distilled water bath.

agentjim007 · March 11, 2011 8:21AM

blow the dust off those I'm freaking out. Dust off for computers work

RunnersDad · March 11, 2011 8:32AM

<< <i>blow the dust off those I'm freaking out. Dust off for computers work >>

I intend on it! The seller shipped them in Tissues, odd, but that explains the dust.

TheRegulator · March 11, 2011 9:04AM

I disagree with the recoloring opinions. From the pics, the first piece definitely does not look recolored. It would have to have been dipped and just does not have that odd pink color. I suppose the second piece could have been recolored, but with the pics it definitely deserves the benefit of the doubt. Just looks like a nice, attractive brown big cent.

I would also recommend just leaving the pieces alone. Acetone will not remove the verdigris on the first piece, and any attempts to "improve" the piece will probably just make it worse. It you don't like it, just sell it and move on.

Having said that... the first piece has some really cool repunching and the second piece just looks like a really nice piece.

RunnersDad · March 11, 2011 11:04AM

<< <i>I disagree with the recoloring opinions. From the pics, the first piece definitely does not look recolored. It would have to have been dipped and just does not have that odd pink color. I suppose the second piece could have been recolored, but with the pics it definitely deserves the benefit of the doubt. Just looks like a nice, attractive brown big cent.

I would also recommend just leaving the pieces alone. Acetone will not remove the verdigris on the first piece, and any attempts to "improve" the piece will probably just make it worse. It you don't like it, just sell it and move on.

Having said that... the first piece has some really cool repunching and the second piece just looks like a really nice piece.

>>

Thanks! In hand I agree with you that both pieces are original and haven't been recolored. The second piece though I believe has been lightly cleaned in the past, and when I say light I mean light. Otherwise I think that both are completely original.

TheRegulator · March 11, 2011 11:40AM

Don't forget... it's not cleaning, it's just "brushing."

Walkerguy21D · March 11, 2011 9:06PM

There is a huge difference between gently brushing a large cent and 'cleaning' a large cent, in our hobby's vernacular.
Cleaning involves dipping, and dipping destroys the original color of the cent. I have large cents I brushed that now reside
in high grade holders from both PCGS and NGC. If you wanna see some 'cleaned' large cents, look at the Bowers/Stacks auction.
They are in genny holders, despite having retoned to mostly brown coins.

keets · March 11, 2011 9:20PM

while i like the coins i don't care for the color of either, not being a fan or believer of 150 year old Copper which is still reddish in color. i would ask the question as such-----if we can pretty much agree that Silver of this age shouldn't be white, why should we expect that the more reactive Copper would retain its red color?? i understand these are brown but they would seem to me that they should by nature be darker which is why i lean towards the opinion shared by others, an old cleaning and retoned. the top coin appeals to me due to the date repunching and the bottom for overall appearance.

nice pickups.

lkeigwin · March 11, 2011 11:03PM

I wouldn't dip copper in acetone. As was mentioned, acetone does noting for verdigris anyway. If it's PVC, sure, acetone should take care of it. You risk the copper color, though.

Verdicare/verdigone might help. But it seems to work best on active verdigris (bright green and cakey).

Xylol is a good, safe treatment for grungy old copper but tends to leave a parched look, aching for Coincare or BR.

Personally, I'd leave them both alone, especially if I hoped for problem-free holders.
Lance.

SamByrd · March 12, 2011 1:26AM

I would never use acetone on copper that has any red still. I do think the second coin is recolored and has AU 58 details. The first one will bag due to enviro damage in my opinion. I do think it has UNC details. The first coin may be a good coin for NCS they may be able to stabilize it and perhaps gradable after conservation.

NewP(s): Opinions on these 2 1847 Large Cents

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