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Game Theory and customer relations
halfcentman
Posts: 1,498 ✭✭✭
Game Theory is put simply as make decisions based on what other people decide.
It has so many practical application besides games. It is used in business, teaching, criminal justice, and many more areas.
There is an old adage in business that "the customer is always right." I like to use another adage, "the customer is never wrong." Think carefully; it's not the exact opposite.
You have heard me say it so many times, but the best way to deal with people and control a situation is to let them do what they are doing and give them a false sense that they are controlling the action, when in fact it's you.
I make no bones about it, but I am a superb manipulator when the situation warrants it. In business as a coin dealer (as many other coin dealers are doing as well), I know what items people overvalue and undervalue. We all have techniques to get people to come to us that are fair and honest, especially with more and more people shopping stuiff around.
Even though I do pick up that well on social cues, I can read people like books (comes from being a pro, fixed-limit Hold'em player) in a business or professional setting, whether it's in-person or over the phone. As one of my friends put it, "I can through peoples' souls!"
With that said, I treat my customers with respect and with the highest ethical standards. However, we all know that not all customers are alike.
No pun intended, but knowing how to "play the game" is vital. It's something that I did not do very well when I first began dealing. Now, I am a master at it having paid tuition and learning from some very seasoned and reputable dealers.
In short, if you follow the advice along with the "armor suit/rubber darts" philosophy, you will learn how to handle almost everything. Under no circumstances do you ever let customers take advantage of you, but there is a way to put them in their place (especially the ones who think they know more than they actually do) without them having a clue that you are putting them in your place.
This kind of stuff is the kind of out-of-the-box thinking that separates success from moderation to failure. This kind of thinking has nothing to do with intelligence. I know people with 100 IQ's who possess this, and I know people with 170 IQ's who don't. In this case, I have more respect for the person with the lower IQ and he is definitely smarter. Numbers do not tell the whole story.
Have a nice day,
Greg
It has so many practical application besides games. It is used in business, teaching, criminal justice, and many more areas.
There is an old adage in business that "the customer is always right." I like to use another adage, "the customer is never wrong." Think carefully; it's not the exact opposite.
You have heard me say it so many times, but the best way to deal with people and control a situation is to let them do what they are doing and give them a false sense that they are controlling the action, when in fact it's you.
I make no bones about it, but I am a superb manipulator when the situation warrants it. In business as a coin dealer (as many other coin dealers are doing as well), I know what items people overvalue and undervalue. We all have techniques to get people to come to us that are fair and honest, especially with more and more people shopping stuiff around.
Even though I do pick up that well on social cues, I can read people like books (comes from being a pro, fixed-limit Hold'em player) in a business or professional setting, whether it's in-person or over the phone. As one of my friends put it, "I can through peoples' souls!"
With that said, I treat my customers with respect and with the highest ethical standards. However, we all know that not all customers are alike.
No pun intended, but knowing how to "play the game" is vital. It's something that I did not do very well when I first began dealing. Now, I am a master at it having paid tuition and learning from some very seasoned and reputable dealers.
In short, if you follow the advice along with the "armor suit/rubber darts" philosophy, you will learn how to handle almost everything. Under no circumstances do you ever let customers take advantage of you, but there is a way to put them in their place (especially the ones who think they know more than they actually do) without them having a clue that you are putting them in your place.
This kind of stuff is the kind of out-of-the-box thinking that separates success from moderation to failure. This kind of thinking has nothing to do with intelligence. I know people with 100 IQ's who possess this, and I know people with 170 IQ's who don't. In this case, I have more respect for the person with the lower IQ and he is definitely smarter. Numbers do not tell the whole story.
Have a nice day,
Greg
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Comments
<< <i>"If you can't find the fish at the table, you must be at Long John Silvers!" >>
Bruce
<< <i>In short, if you follow the advice along with the "armor suit/rubber darts" philosophy, you will learn how to handle almost everything. Under no circumstances do you ever let customers take advantage of you, but there is a way to put them in their place (especially the ones who think they know more than they actually do) without them having a clue that you are putting them in your place.
>>
Are you just stating that there's a way to put them in their place, or did you actually describe how to do it and I missed it?
Proud recipient of two "You Suck" awards
2) I'm not revealing specifics because they have taken me a long time to master. Anyone who has been in the business for a while knows them anyway, but usually by implicit means.
3) Tells in 20-40 Hold'em become slightly more prevalent. They are not necessarily physical tells, but they are tendencies that players have because they do not randomize their play enough. Hence, you can put them on certain hands with a greater probability. I can tell you that I probably lost count when I was the fish at the table. That's when you get up and leave.
4) Since my actions are random, and you do not know how I am going to react, it makes it harder for you to react. Unlike most people, I think in numbers and I have the ability to beat scenarios to bloody death. It's a part of having Asperger's. Believe me, it really sucks sometimes because your brain does not stop unless you're sleeping. People like me are very, very driven. However, you don't need to be like that in order to understand the basics.
The thing you need to understand is this: Many people can do this stuff without a lot of effort. Chances are that you are doing most of this without even thinking about it, but you're not doing all of it. I am not good at thinking on my feet, so this is a necessary evil for me.
"Not knowing something is not a crime. Not wanting to know is."
<< <i>Modesty must not be a part of game theory. >>
Funny! I know where my talent lies because I suck at so many other things that I have tried.
People underestimate themselves. Anyone is capable of understanding the qualitative aspects of this if they put their mind to it, so do not shortchange yourself.
<< <i>
<< <i>Modesty must not be a part of game theory. >>
Funny! I know where my talent lies because I suck at so many other things that I have tried.
People underestimate themselves. Anyone is capable of understanding the qualitative aspects of this if they put their mind to it, so do not shortchange yourself. >>
Absolutely amazing.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
However, I always found it useful to have a Plan B, which consisted of a trap door on the outside of the sales counter with an alligator pit down in the basement.
I am sorry if it came out conceited, because that was not the intent. That's not my way.
I would be very interested in hearing your views about the concepts.
One last thing, the word "manipulate" was a poor choice of words. It's more like taking control of a situation.
Once again, my apologies.
Greg
<< <i>Tells or reading people in middle limit hold'em is way over rated. It will have very little effect on your overall win/loss rate.
Bruce >>
So what does affect your win rate?
BTW, what are you considering middle limit holdem. To me, middle limit means $20-$40 through $80-$160 limit holdem.
Paul
<< <i>OK, I just read the original post and the replies. It did not come out right.
I am sorry if it came out conceited, because that was not the intent. That's not my way.
I would be very interested in hearing your views about the concepts.
One last thing, the word "manipulate" was a poor choice of words. It's more like taking control of a situation.
Once again, my apologies.
Greg >>
Hi Greg - I know that you have recently posted about having Asperger's, and that sometimes things like small talk can be a challenge. Your recent half cent posts have been interesting and informative. But, you are right on your re-read of your OP - the tone probably did not come out the way that you intended it. It did come out a bit conceited and manipulative - which I don't think was your intent.
Anyway, I am not sure what aspects of game theory you are speaking about. Poker is a game with winners and loser. There is not really an in-between. For a coin dealer, or most businesses, the idea of a win-win transaction is desirable. Instead of maximizing the profit on each deal, a good strategy is to make a fair profit and establish long term relationships - repeat business.
I would be interested on your thoughts of game theory with this in mind.
PS - it was good to see you at Parsippany on Sunday.
merse
However, I always found it useful to have a Plan B, which consisted of a trap door on the outside of the sales counter with an alligator pit down in the basement.
Tom - My understanding is that that trap door is your customers' best chance for survival in your store.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
OK, here's a retail one:
I answer the phone last week, the first words out of the guy's mouth are "hey, want to buy a bag of 90, buddy?"
Now I know what kind of person I am dealing with. Instead of saying "do you know how much face value is in a bag?" I said "Wow, you have $1K face to sell me in 1964 and before silver?"
Doing this puts the impetus on him. It does not insult his intelligence, and does not assume he knows what a bag is. If he doesn't, he'll answer his own question. He knew what it was, which is what I thought.
He asks me how much I would pay. So know my question to him is "how is the silver stored?" Notice I did not give him examples, I want him to tell me. It's all loose in Ziploc bags, so I can just weigh it after I spot-check it. I am 99% sure that he is shopping it around (he actually tells me later that he's called at least four other stores before me at the end of the call). With all of that information, I gave him an appropriate quote given the above information.
Now, here's the funny part. I live in South Plainfield, NJ. This guy lived in the next town over. When he called me back (which was very nice of him), he told me that he drove 50 miles roundtrip and spent almost an hour in someone else's store for $65 more. Frankly, as much as I would have liked to buy it, I almost did not care (that's ALMOST).
In my older days, I would have said "Wait, you spent all of that time and all of that money on gas and tolls for that?" That's a really good way to insult someone since it's their prerogative.
Instead, I said "Oh, you sold it to (Tom). He's a great guy and very reputable. I have done business with him since I was in high school. I am sure he took good care of you."
I did not get that deal, but left on good terms AND I really meant it. Because of that, he gave my name to someone else who I did have a solid and easy transaction with.
-----
As I said before, I have to think of stuff like this in order for it to work - most people don't. It's like thinking about breathing!! However, by doing so and putting in the work it's enabled me to deal with people a lot better and more respectively because it enables you to have empathy for others. Empathy is not an easy concept for people with Asperger's because they have tunnel vision and live with blinders on when it comes to social cues.
I appreciate your time reading my lengthy threads.
Have a nice night,
Greg