Would you call this guy a crook?
GritsMan
Posts: 2,599 ✭✭✭
As an experiment, I walked into a local B&M place today that seems to specialize in gold and silver. I plonked down $10 worth of 40% halves and asked his buying price. After a diligent look at his computer, he said "Fifty dollars."
"Fifty dollars!" I exclaimed, barely keeping from laughing. "I think I'll keep it for that."
The guy looked a bit disgruntled and I wondered if I'd looked like such an easy mark! I also wondered if his look at the computer was really just taking a moment to see how much he could rip me off for.
Thoughts?
Winner of the Coveted Devil Award June 8th, 2010
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Comments
<< <i>Would you call this guy a crook? >>
No.
He's bordering on crooked.
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AL
<< <i>what is the going rate for $10 worth of 40% halves? >>
Jake's Marketplace is paying about $84 right now according to their website. So- if the local guy didn't have customers in his store looking for 40% sliver and instead sold it to a place like Jake's, he'd make a whole $34 on the deal, less shipping, taxes, time spent on the deal, etc. Hardly a windfall, if you ask me.
edited to add... I see I'm in the minority here. So- why don't one of you "dealer is a crook" guys man up and offer the OP 10x face for the coins? You know they're worth it- right?
Dwayne F. Sessom
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<< <i>Maybe he was expecting a little haggling? >>
Maybe he didn't really want them?
Crooked? No. Silly? Maybe.
Velocity, Not Valuation Defines A Bubble.
Having said that, I do realize a lot of dealers do not like messing with 40%
AL
<< <i>I should add that my impression of this store, driving by it several times a week, is that he does a high turnover. In fact, when I walked in someone was in the middle of buying a bunch of silver dollars. I'd be surprised if he couldn't unload the halves within a day or two, but am the first to admit I might be wrong. >>
I'd be willing to bet silver dollars are an easier sale than 40% halves, but that's neither here nor there. So tell us- what is the lowest offer you would have considered to be a "not a crook" offer?
No crime was committed, so the answer is no.
- Jim
He probably started a thread about telling a guy he'd pay him $50 for $100 worth of 40%, expecting the guy to chuckle and counter, but instead he said he'd keep it for that and walked out.
And to be fair I think he would be classified as an attempted crook.
<< <i>"Crook" implies criminal activity. Let's just call him unethical and let it go at that. >>
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"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
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<< <i>I should add that my impression of this store, driving by it several times a week, is that he does a high turnover. In fact, when I walked in someone was in the middle of buying a bunch of silver dollars. I'd be surprised if he couldn't unload the halves within a day or two, but am the first to admit I might be wrong. >>
I'd be willing to bet silver dollars are an easier sale than 40% halves, but that's neither here nor there. So tell us- what is the lowest offer you would have considered to be a "not a crook" offer? >>
For clarification, I did not call this guy a crook. I asked which of you would call him that. As far as what I would have accepted, I probably would have taken $85, maybe even $80. At $90 or higher, I would have brought him additional silver later. I was so flabbergasted at the $50 offer, however, there didn't seem any point in making a counter-offer.
I'm also not upset for myself (actually, I'm not upset at all). But I do imagine the proverbial Little Old Ladies walking into this shop and just getting taken to the cleaners. I also don't buy that he would have given me an upright quote on the 90%. Sure, the guy has every right to offer whatever he wants to, but I think he really is taking advantage, and it does seem like lousy business practice. Maybe there are enough suckers around that he doesn't have to worry about it.
<< <i>But I do imagine the proverbial Little Old Ladies walking into this shop and just getting taken to the cleaners. I also don't buy that he would have given me an upright quote on the 90%. Sure, the guy has every right to offer whatever he wants to, but I think he really is taking advantage, and it does seem like lousy business practice. Maybe there are enough suckers around that he doesn't have to worry about it. >>
No, that doesn't sound like you're calling him a crook at all. I'm sure any dealer would be happy to be getting such praise from a potential customer.
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<< <i>I should add that my impression of this store, driving by it several times a week, is that he does a high turnover. In fact, when I walked in someone was in the middle of buying a bunch of silver dollars. I'd be surprised if he couldn't unload the halves within a day or two, but am the first to admit I might be wrong. >>
I'd be willing to bet silver dollars are an easier sale than 40% halves, but that's neither here nor there. So tell us- what is the lowest offer you would have considered to be a "not a crook" offer? >>
For clarification, I did not call this guy a crook. I asked which of you would call him that. As far as what I would have accepted, I probably would have taken $85, maybe even $80. At $90 or higher, I would have brought him additional silver later. I was so flabbergasted at the $50 offer, however, there didn't seem any point in making a counter-offer.
I'm also not upset for myself (actually, I'm not upset at all). But I do imagine the proverbial Little Old Ladies walking into this shop and just getting taken to the cleaners. I also don't buy that he would have given me an upright quote on the 90%. Sure, the guy has every right to offer whatever he wants to, but I think he really is taking advantage, and it does seem like lousy business practice. Maybe there are enough suckers around that he doesn't have to worry about it. >>
He doesn't have to worry about it. Knowledge is power. You have accumulated knowledge and it kept you out of what you felt was a bad deal.
Cash4Gold pays for their TV advertisements with something. It is the lack of knowledge of the people who deal with them.
<< <i>50% of spot price is a ripoff no matter how you look at it. You sure you didn't walk into a pawn shop by accident?
A couple times I've even seen Rick on the Pawn Stars program tell people that they were asking him to pay too little for their item and he then offered them more than they asked. That's what being ethical and fair is all about. I guess if we wanted to be cynical, we could think that he did it because the cameras were rolling, but at least the act itself shows what a fair person should and would do.
- Jim
<< <i>40% is always discounted more than 90% or fine silver. And at these levels, the market could take a major dive at any minute. Any dealer is going to hedge himself, first in case he can't make a quick turnover, and second, in case of a big correction. Any time you are at the top of any market, you are on shaky ground....... >>
Yes, the (silver) market could take a major dive. OR, it could soar. That doesn't sound like ample justification to offer such a low price.
If silver prices were gyrating daily to the tune of double digit percentages, that would be different.
<< <i>50% of spot price is a ripoff no matter how you look at it. You sure you didn't walk into a pawn shop by accident?
I called my local pawn shop yesterday to see what they were buying at.
She'll pay 20X for 90% and $21.00 for Silver Dollars....so they're not all bad.
This makes it tought since I try to buy higher than the local coin shops and pawn store, especially with spot where it's at. So maybe he's hedging for the uncertainty?
It was low and I wouldn't sell at all, but many would and do.
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There is no shortage of people in the world who set themselves up in the business of exploiting
ignorance for profit. You are entitled to think whatever you want of this practice and the people
who engage in it. However, it is not illegal. Another thing to factor into the equation is the
overhead associated with running a storefront.
It is incumbent upon the seller of an item to know its true market value and how to best realize
same.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Lance.
<< <i>If instead of the owner of the B&M who offered $50.00 working the counter, the counter was being worked by his part time, 19 year old new employee (with little or no training in spot prices of precious metals, nor of the difference between 40% silver halves and 90% 1964 silver halves); or by the shop owner's stay at home wife (who knows nothing about the business) for 90 minutes while the shop owner was away at a dentist appointment and you offered the $10.00 in face value 40% silver coins for $200.00 and the 19 year old or the wife said "deal" and took out two $100.00 bills to pay you, should you be called a "crook"? >>
Sanction II, you have a rich fantasy life!
It is a weird hobby. Some dealers get called "crooks" for selling coins for too much money. Others with prices not quite as high, but still way higher than average, tend to be the most respected dealers in the industry.
Some guy with a local shop gets called a crook for offering half of melt value for tough to move coins. It would depend on the area of the country whether that offer is competitive or not. Those coins are tough to move. If I brought over 50% silver Canadian coins and asked for an offer, would half of melt be crooked? How about 50% U. K. coins or 10% silver Mexican coins?
The other weird thing is that 50% of retail price might be the best offer in town for a person that brings in typical raw collector coins, say better date, but not key date Lincoln cents or Indian cents. 25% of retail might be typical for hard to move stuff such as Civil War tokens or so-called dollars.
Ah well, it never changes. Collectors often have exceedingly high expectations, and expect every dealer to match the high offer or at most be 10% back and work for that 10%. Collectors might become very afraid if they knew what the collector coins they paid retail prices for traded at during certain times in the cycle. It isn't crooked. It is business. It is the numismatic food chain at work.
I was recently offered a lowball bid on a coin I listed on BST. To justify his lowball bid, the fellow remarked that such coins were taking a nosedive on ebay in price and even that a recent auction had no bids at all. My price is quite healthy, which does reflect my expectations for the coin and my lukewarm intentions to sell it unless the price is right. He wasn't even a jerk, but by the same token he isn't getting that coin for a lowball number.
The difference here - is that in Grits' case the dealer thought he was dealing with someone who didn't know values. In my own case, we both know what the coin is and is not.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>The difference here - is that in Grits' case the dealer thought he was dealing with someone who didn't know values. >>
Not to be argumentative, but nobody (except for the dealer himself) really knows what the dealer thought. Maybe someone could have asked him instead of acting insulted and walking away?
Just a thought.
<< <i>A fair offer would've been around 80% to 85% of melt, as you indicated. Since he really didn't misrepresent anything to you as being fair value or try to talk you into thinking he was making you a great deal, I couldn't call him a crook. A jerk maybe, but not a crook.
I was recently offered a lowball bid on a coin I listed on BST. To justify his lowball bid, the fellow remarked that such coins were taking a nosedive on ebay in price and even that a recent auction had no bids at all. My price is quite healthy, which does reflect my expectations for the coin and my lukewarm intentions to sell it unless the price is right. He wasn't even a jerk, but by the same token he isn't getting that coin for a lowball number.
The difference here - is that in Grits' case the dealer thought he was dealing with someone who didn't know values. In my own case, we both know what the coin is and is not.
In some areas the 40% silver coins might SELL for 90% of melt as retail price and still sit for weeks and weeks. I don't see much sense in offering 5% back of retail value for hard to move coins, or how a small dealer can stay in business paying retail and trying to sell at retail. We also don't know if this is the typical offer, or if the dealer already has 100 rolls of the stuff in inventory.
These kind of threads are common. Local dealer gets painted as the bad guy when an educated collector brings in items that probably don't have much local demand. I would think smart folks would learn that the low offers and wide spreads are typical. If they are typical offers, and they aren't illegal, to call them crooks, makes the expectations unrealistic. What is the proper derogatory name for those with unrealistic expectations?