Asperger's and Numismatics
halfcentman
Posts: 1,498 ✭✭✭
As many of you know, I have a high-functioning autistic disorder called Asperger's Syndrome. I also have two children who are autistic (one of them has Asperger's as well).
Coping with Asperger's is interesting because it has no cure. As far as insight is concerned, the best way to explain it is that when most people look at life one way I look at life another. My thought processes towards things which are qualitative to most are quantiitative to me. In other words, my whole life is actuarial.
Thinking like this is very volatile. That's because it can be a great boon or an incredible hindrance. Rarely is it middle ground.
The other problem with this disorder is social interaction. I do not attend weddings, parties, or any social functions because I am incapable of making small talk. My conversations are always drawn-out an intense (just like my posts). Typing 65-70 words per minute aids in that as well.
Coin shows provide a huge challenge to me. The din in the room in combination with having to interact with other people is very hard for me. Since my emotional reaction is one of stoicism or eruptions, I under and overreact to almost everything. I started wearing headphones to drown out the noise, but that did not solve the problem of interacting with dealers with tables. Starting Sunday at Parsippany, my 12-year-old daughter (who I pay $5/hr to work in my coin business) will go with me to all of my shows as my assitant/coach. As I have gotten older (I am 44), I have found that it's best that I take a family member with me (except my mom - she's too much like me!) to keep me on an even keel.
Like anything, learning to cope and not seeking perfection is the only way you can preserve your sanity. If you ever see me at your table, keep this in mind when I am interacting with you.
I believe firmly that there are lot of people in this hobby who have Asperger's and/or they do not even know it. The hobby is just too complex for most people to handle. Numismatists have very special insight and vision, and that's not the norm.
Lastly, people with Asperger's also have a tendency to have a very hard time learning certain concepts. I had the same problem with die variety attribution when I joined EAC 20 years ago. It was very intimidating to me. So what did I do? I invented my own method that suited the way my brain thinks.
If any of you have any questions or want to chat about this, please feel free. If I can educate just one person on all of this it's all worth it.
Have a great day,
Greg Heim
Coping with Asperger's is interesting because it has no cure. As far as insight is concerned, the best way to explain it is that when most people look at life one way I look at life another. My thought processes towards things which are qualitative to most are quantiitative to me. In other words, my whole life is actuarial.
Thinking like this is very volatile. That's because it can be a great boon or an incredible hindrance. Rarely is it middle ground.
The other problem with this disorder is social interaction. I do not attend weddings, parties, or any social functions because I am incapable of making small talk. My conversations are always drawn-out an intense (just like my posts). Typing 65-70 words per minute aids in that as well.
Coin shows provide a huge challenge to me. The din in the room in combination with having to interact with other people is very hard for me. Since my emotional reaction is one of stoicism or eruptions, I under and overreact to almost everything. I started wearing headphones to drown out the noise, but that did not solve the problem of interacting with dealers with tables. Starting Sunday at Parsippany, my 12-year-old daughter (who I pay $5/hr to work in my coin business) will go with me to all of my shows as my assitant/coach. As I have gotten older (I am 44), I have found that it's best that I take a family member with me (except my mom - she's too much like me!) to keep me on an even keel.
Like anything, learning to cope and not seeking perfection is the only way you can preserve your sanity. If you ever see me at your table, keep this in mind when I am interacting with you.
I believe firmly that there are lot of people in this hobby who have Asperger's and/or they do not even know it. The hobby is just too complex for most people to handle. Numismatists have very special insight and vision, and that's not the norm.
Lastly, people with Asperger's also have a tendency to have a very hard time learning certain concepts. I had the same problem with die variety attribution when I joined EAC 20 years ago. It was very intimidating to me. So what did I do? I invented my own method that suited the way my brain thinks.
If any of you have any questions or want to chat about this, please feel free. If I can educate just one person on all of this it's all worth it.
Have a great day,
Greg Heim
0
Comments
I'm like you in many ways... I avoid social situations, am logical (quantitative in lieu of qualitative), am very intuitive (I come to conclusions quicker than most), however, I'm not quick to eruptions and I'm not stoic. I don't like reading... more than a couple paragraphs. I prefer photos over words. I'm very visual and avoid verbal. I'm very grey, middle-of-the-road. I suspect most collectors have tendencies similar to you and I. We're probably mostly right-brained.
www.brunkauctions.com
<< <i>It would have been more accurate if your thread stated "Asperger's and Copper Collectors!"
I'm like you in many ways... I avoid social situations, am logical (quantitative in lieu of qualitative), am very intuitive (I come to conclusions quicker than most), however, I'm not quick to eruptions and I'm not stoic. I don't like reading... more than a couple paragraphs. I prefer photos over words. I'm very visual and avoid verbal. I'm very grey, middle-of-the-road. I suspect most collectors have tendencies similar to you and I. We're probably mostly right-brained. >>
Well that just about summarizes me, except I am more "Black and White" and I had to learn greyness.
People with disabilities or disorders are met with many challenges in their lives. But what gives us the drive is not letting those limitations to interfere with our daily life or routine, and certainly by not letting them restrict us from participation in many things that people without disabilities can do.
My wife and I like to bowl. We joined a deaf league at our local bowling center. I've been collecting coins since I was 16, and still enjoy it as much today as I did then. She comes with me to the local coin shows, and dealers to translate for me.
Rock on!
<< <i>great post, i have a brother who is autistic and only uses limited sign language to communicate.......do you feel that this hobby serves to give you an outlet in a way? just wondering >>
ABSOLUTELY!
I know a 12-year-old who is enamored with quarters. It keeps him occupied and sharp. Although he is not terribly interested in being a collector, the designs, dates, and mint marks keep his mind occupied. When I went to see him the second time, he had all 100 quarters arranged in date, mint mark, and year order AND he was able to tell what year every state entered the union (in random order), and their state capitals.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Coins bring me a great deal of pleasure and, when they speak to me, they never expect a reply!
<< <i>As many of you know, I have a high-functioning autistic disorder called Asperger's Syndrome. I also have two children who are autistic (one of them has Asperger's as well).
Coping with Asperger's is interesting because it has no cure. As far as insight is concerned, the best way to explain it is that when most people look at life one way I look at life another. My thought processes towards things which are qualitative to most are quantiitative to me. In other words, my whole life is actuarial.
Thinking like this is very volatile. That's because it can be a great boon or an incredible hindrance. Rarely is it middle ground.
The other problem with this disorder is social interaction. I do not attend weddings, parties, or any social functions because I am incapable of making small talk. My conversations are always drawn-out an intense (just like my posts). Typing 65-70 words per minute aids in that as well.
Coin shows provide a huge challenge to me. The din in the room in combination with having to interact with other people is very hard for me. Since my emotional reaction is one of stoicism or eruptions, I under and overreact to almost everything. I started wearing headphones to drown out the noise, but that did not solve the problem of interacting with dealers with tables. Starting Sunday at Parsippany, my 12-year-old daughter (who I pay $5/hr to work in my coin business) will go with me to all of my shows as my assitant/coach. As I have gotten older (I am 44), I have found that it's best that I take a family member with me (except my mom - she's too much like me!) to keep me on an even keel.
Like anything, learning to cope and not seeking perfection is the only way you can preserve your sanity. If you ever see me at your table, keep this in mind when I am interacting with you.
I believe firmly that there are lot of people in this hobby who have Asperger's and/or they do not even know it. The hobby is just too complex for most people to handle. Numismatists have very special insight and vision, and that's not the norm.
Lastly, people with Asperger's also have a tendency to have a very hard time learning certain concepts. I had the same problem with die variety attribution when I joined EAC 20 years ago. It was very intimidating to me. So what did I do? I invented my own method that suited the way my brain thinks.
If any of you have any questions or want to chat about this, please feel free. If I can educate just one person on all of this it's all worth it.
>>
I'm pretty sure I want to argue with you here but I'm not sure what it is about.
Maybe it's that "have a great day" crack.
I'm extremely literal and the older I get the more difficulty I have understanding those
who aren't or who use sentence fragments. I don't mind a good run-on sentence once
in a while but it's gotta be a complete thought.
I once thought everyone else could read minds so I taught myself to do it only to learn
that everyone else could read facial expresssions.
There probably is a correlation between autism and the desire to collect but it may not
be a strong one.
I have a question for you. You mentioned in your post that you tend to over or under react to everything in social situations. Do you find that you have the same reaction on these boards (or any form of typed medium)? Since this would be considered (in my mind) to be a form of social interaction, do you find your posts to fall into one of the two camps? Or do you find that the ability to collect your thoughts, edit, reshape, edit, reshape, edit your posts to be a way to find the middle ground reaction? You consider your posts to be intense, but honestly I appreciate discussion related posts like yours because it answers all the first level questions I may have had and allows me to consider second or third level questions related to your post.
Socially I am not a very good with people. I'm a bad small talker, bad debater (my wife destroys me), but once comfortable with the people I interact with on daily basis I find I can be quite funny and engaging (at least I think so). I also find that I develop passions that are intense, and usually shorter lived ( I have small collections or boxes, cigars, bowling balls, other stuff). Coins seem to be sticking around a lot longer, which is nice. There is so much to learn, so much I don't know and so many other people that are significantly more knowledgeable at this then me that I feel it might hold my attention longer.
Thanks again for the post, it made my day in a way, in only the way that a very well written, educational, interesting article can.
Nick E
<< <i>Greg, first, great post. An interesting insight into a facet of your life that I probably never would have known.
I have a question for you. You mentioned in your post that you tend to over or under react to everything in social situations. Do you find that you have the same reaction on these boards (or any form of typed medium)? Since this would be considered (in my mind) to be a form of social interaction, do you find your posts to fall into one of the two camps? Or do you find that the ability to collect your thoughts, edit, reshape, edit, reshape, edit your posts to be a way to find the middle ground reaction? You consider your posts to be intense, but honestly I appreciate discussion related posts like yours because it answers all the first level questions I may have had and allows me to consider second or third level questions related to your post.
Socially I am not a very good with people. I'm a bad small talker, bad debater (my wife destroys me), but once comfortable with the people I interact with on daily basis I find I can be quite funny and engaging (at least I think so). I also find that I develop passions that are intense, and usually shorter lived ( I have small collections or boxes, cigars, bowling balls, other stuff). Coins seem to be sticking around a lot longer, which is nice. There is so much to learn, so much I don't know and so many other people that are significantly more knowledgeable at this then me that I feel it might hold my attention longer.
Thanks again for the post, it made my day in a way, in only the way that a very well written, educational, interesting article can.
Nick E >>
In a word YES!!!
John
John Maben
Pegasus Coin and Jewelry (Brick and Mortar)
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800-381-2646
There's seems to be a commonality emerging here... With all of us that deplore social gatherings, it's amazing that coin shows are attended at all!
been a lurker here for years and just recently have gotten up the nerve
to post - If we were all sitting together in a big room discussing this, I
would be the invisible one in the back that room never saying a word-
thank you for the invention of the computer
Second, someone in a PM asked me "when did you know you were different?"
ANSWER: I was sitting by myself in Kindergarten counting. While the other kids were learning to count to ten, I figured out that even though you started counting with one, there were ten digits zdero through nine inclusive. I recognized that in front of all of the single-digit numbers, there was an implied zero. When you got to nine, you started "over" with a zero, but increased the digit to the left of it by one (obviously, I did not word it this way at five).
When Mrs. Pelin and the other kids heard me counting, I had just gotten to over 1,000. She stopped me at 1,067 (yes, I remember the number).
It all started there.
Edit: If I get to meet you at a show I promise to get out the spreadsheets quick to make it an easier conversation.
I often wonder how I will bridge the gap between this and getting him to take interest in collecting.
I too have it but not bad. That said when I do go to shows I stay in the same hotels. goto the same place to eat (every meal if possible) and only to the same cities I know.
I have not attended a local show in a very long time either.
It is a not easy but it is also just another hurdle in life, one most people can't understand.
Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.
Buying great coins - monster eye appeal only.
<< <i>I too fit the pattern and, although not professionally diagnosed (however, I am a psychologist), I'd say that I have "Asperger's Lite." I'm able to appropriately interact socially, but it takes me a great deal of effort and I rarely find enjoyment from doing so. >>
I'd go along with this as well - but i'm not a psychologist...
Great post Greg
I also share a lot of similar traits with you but have never been officially diagnosed with anything. And on the flip side of that I have a 5 year old son that suffers from a rare genetic seizure disorder and thus cannot communicate with us, but you can see that he has a lot to say but cannot express himself. Through his therapies, the Special School District and the hospital we have spent TOO much time at I have had the pleasure of meeting and working with many children that carry with them official diagnosis's of Asperger's or a high functioning level of Autism. I have also had the pleasure of coaching a young man with high functioning Asperger's a couple of Cross Country seasons ago.
What I have determined is that all of these individuals share an outlook on life that cannot be emulated by anyone. The way they look at and interpret life is unique and in turn they have many unique perspectives to share with us. I have come to appreciate and value these different perspectives over the course of the last several years.
Your insight into how your struggles with Asperger's relate to numismatics is enlightening and provides I am sure only a small glimpse into some of the struggles that you deal with, but it sounds like you have a good handle on it!
Might I also ask do your children attend SSD or are integrated into a normal classroom.
Visit my son's caringbridge page @ Runner's Caringbridge Page
"To Give Anything Less than Your Best, Is to Sacrifice the Gift" - Steve Prefontaine
<< <i>Greg, thank you for taking the time to share your story.
I also share a lot of similar traits with you but have never been officially diagnosed with anything. And on the flip side of that I have a 5 year old son that suffers from a rare genetic seizure disorder and thus cannot communicate with us, but you can see that he has a lot to say but cannot express himself. Through his therapies, the Special School District and the hospital we have spent TOO much time at I have had the pleasure of meeting and working with many children that carry with them official diagnosis's of Asperger's or a high functioning level of Autism. I have also had the pleasure of coaching a young man with high functioning Asperger's a couple of Cross Country seasons ago.
What I have determined is that all of these individuals share an outlook on life that cannot be emulated by anyone. The way they look at and interpret life is unique and in turn they have many unique perspectives to share with us. I have come to appreciate and value these different perspectives over the course of the last several years.
Your insight into how your struggles with Asperger's relate to numismatics is enlightening and provides I am sure only a small glimpse into some of the struggles that you deal with, but it sounds like you have a good handle on it!
Might I also ask do your children attend SSD or are integrated into a normal classroom. >>
----
I did not know that I had AS until I was 40! (January 2007). It was when my then 2-year-old son was diagnosed.
There is a heck of a lot more to it with regards to familial matters. One of the biggest problems that we have is that our ENTIRE family has only four additional people not including the five of us. My mother and father, and my mother's sister and her husband (they never had kids). I am an only child and I was an only grandchild. My mother still works full-time as a hairdresser, and my dad has a real hard time keeping up with my son. Lisa's does not have family - they're all dead.
However, we do have sitters as we are making more of a concerted effort to get out of the house. Even going out to Target and Lowe's for two hours does wonders. Lisa and I are going to the Baltimore show on April 2, and we are going to the ANA in Chicago BY OURSELVES! It's the first time Lisa will be going to an ANA with me since 2004.
My 6-year-old son goes to a regular school, but he is in a K-1 special needs classroom. He is non-verbal, but getting much better at communicating his wants and needs. My other daughter attends regular public school.
umm.....hi
eric
I actually enjoy small talk to some degree, something I certainly did not in the past. But it still bugs me when people tell me the same thing more than once. I heard you the first time, even if I didn't respond
Now, she is a true extrovert. An introvert is someone, like me, who derives energy from being by themselves, reading, studying, playing with their numismatic treasures, watching TV, whatever one does solo. An extrovert like her derives energy from talking to other people, social interaction, being in groups, talking on the phone to friends. We have a good marriage, in that she gives me time for myself, and I make sure to talk to her and go places with her where we can be around other people--most of whom are much better conversationalists than I am!
However, no generalization is worth a damn, as the saying goes. I'm not sure if a preponderance of coin collectors are introverted or not. Perhaps serious numismatists have a greater tendency in that regard? And I would be surprised to learn that any greater percentage of numismatists have Asperger's than the general population--although the few (three) people I have known with Asperger's tend to be extremely intelligent, socially awkward, and as Greg says quantitative to a high degree.
It's important to understand that we all fall somewhere on a continuous spectrum of behavior and while many of us have introverted periods of pleasure alone with our coins, we also enjoy sharing and interacting with other collectors.
People with AS have a very difficult time with normal social interactions and no one reading this should diagnose himself as AS based on the fact that we all have these AS traits in a lesser degree.
Commems and Early Type
Thank you for the post. It is always so pleasant to hear such candor combined with insight. You didn't mention your memory (other than the 5yo counting number 1067) which I associate with the dynamics you mention. Do you mind my asking?
Which coins do you find most interesting? Why?
<< <i>Greg,
Thank you for the post. It is always so pleasant to hear such candor combined with insight. You didn't mention your memory (other than the 5yo counting number 1067) which I associate with the dynamics you mention. Do you mind my asking?
Which coins do you find most interesting? Why? >>
Mass. 1/2C, US Half Cents, and 1816-1835 Large Cents. I started collecting the Large Cents when I joined EAC in 1991, but stopped in 1994. I like buying and selling them.
When it comes to anything (including numismatics), memory and recall are lower forms of intelligence. What separates the Dave Bowers from the rest of the world is the ability to analyze and synthesize information.
Like baseball stats, numbers alone do not tell the whole story. With 1931-S Lincolns, the mintage of 866K does not tell the whole story.
This is not easy for people with AS to do. It takes time. Very few youngsters can do this. It was not until I was in college for my math degree from 1991-1996 did I get this concept.
The same holds true when I am doing a "Quickfinder" for die varieties. You have to make the condition of the coin into consideration. Somthing on an XF may not be as easy to find on a VG.
Greg
I love the half cent coins, too, but have never specialized in anything in particular. Coincidentally, that is the coin I have used to try to get my grandson interested in collecting. Something about that huge old copper...not to mention the fractions.
<< <i>Thanks for the very educational post! My son has autism. Presently he wants to be a gem dealer. He has already picked out the car he wants to use to transport all the gems he is going to find. He has no idea on how to make money in gems, just a very strident notion that that is what he wants to do. He's 14. >>
Rick, my son is AS also, much more than myself. I am a gemstone facetor also, and he and I joined the local gem and mineral society, and I was surprised at the number of possible AS there. Gem or mineral collecting/classification fits very well into my son's desires. He is 28 and we are trying to interest him in Geology or Gemology as a possible career. He has a great musical talent and having been in many public performances, his social interaction has greatly increased, although he still has a difficult time reading faces and emotions.
Jim
I believe Aspberger's is a form of ability - certainly not a disability. Frankly some very successful entrepreneurs admit to, or very likely have Aspberger's - Bill Gates, and David Neely(CEO of JetBlue) are amongst them. The social aspect of AS might be challenging, but the abilities to focus intently on other aspects of life and achievement appear to be an advantage.
<< <i>When it comes to anything (including numismatics), memory and recall are lower forms of intelligence.
What separates the Dave Bowers from the rest of the world is the ability to analyze and synthesize information. Like baseball stats, numbers alone do not tell the whole story. With 1931-S Lincolns, the mintage of 866K does not tell the whole story. >>
You have caught me envying a lower form of intelligence. I have no shame.
The latter part of the statement strikes me as excellent synthesis of information, so you obviously did get the concept!
Best wishes to you and your daughter with the collection.
Maybe some remember "Boston Legal" with the AS lawyer who play acted when he was in court ( Sam Spade like). Unbelievable, but that is a pillar of AS training ( IMO). They can talk and react differently as if they feel they are in a "normal people" play. Food and Dress conflicts can be a problem
Thank all of you for giving a chance to explain some problems. My son was turned off to coins by a dealer who made fun of his determination to find a certain IHC that had to match the exact wear and color of his other. Sound familiar?
I am editing this to be sure no one thinks I blame the dealer. We were there for a long time, and he did offer my son even a better condition coin than he was looking for, but to my son at that age (10), that the coins matched was more important.
Jim
Andrew
Please visit my website Millcitynumismatics.com
For most of my life I've been fairly extroverted and I've always enjoyed meeting new people. For those who have social anxieties perhaps baby steps like a simple hi and some small talk could help and in turn build their confidence from there.
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
Last year, one of my patients went on a 20 minute rant about her husband, and the fact that she had discovered he was an Asperger's sufferer. As I recalled my encounters with him, again, I realized she might have been describing me, of course she doesn't know me as well. This syndrome, or myriad of odd somewhat iconoclastic/antisocial behaviours, are nearly impossible for wive's to understand, let alone tolerate. If you ever want to chat about these problems, I'm all over that. It's very sad how so many people react negatively to people with syndromes such as these, and any educational advancements by the public are well worth the effort.
Next time I go to a coin show, I'm taking my teenage daughter.
Respectfully,
Steve
Looking for uncirculated Indian Heads and PRS electric guitars
I am high strung and do not like people in general, i am sure this has a name also.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
There are several features that have not been mentioned yet.
It was not added to the US Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental disorders until 1994 and it may well be dropped in 2013.
I never heard of the term until I was pass 70. 50 years of marriage had smoothed off some of my rough edges. I have lost some more since then. But I still have some. I find it difficult to look anybody in the eye. We have been told we have to look a job interviewer in the eye. We can force ourselves to do this, but we don't do it right. Their conclusion is that we are shifty eyed and hence dishonest. Actually many of us can not lie and are honest. I have not had a job since 1991.
Some of us have face blindness (Prosopagnosia). That is quite a handicap. (Maybe if we could look somebody in the eye, we could do better). At work there were several pairs of folk and one triplet, that I could not tell apart. Other folk told me they looked nothing alike.
I am fairly severely hearing impaired and as a child, I was not socially adept. Coin collecting found me as well as a myriad of activities such as boy scouting and intensive speech and hearing therapy back in the 1960's. I was taught to lip read but not to use sign language. Over the years I have learned to become more socially interactive even in larger social settings such as in coin shows.
My strength has always been one on one or one on two interaction and gradually weaken as the numbers increase.
I also have a 25 year old autistic daughter (she is a twin - her sister is not autistic or AS)) who is non-verbal nor fully toilet trained and who is starting to adapt to larger social settings such as a coin show. The "white" noise of a large show used to bother her terribly. When she was a youngster, she would shut down from such a large setting and/or start crying. Over the years she has learned to adapt while still being non verbal.
I too will attend the same Parsippany show this Sunday as you. I would like to meet you one on one. I have not been bringing my daughter as that would normally mean my wife would have to come as well (the bathroom becomes an issue for me).
This may sound like common sense, but you need to be diagnosed by a qualified medical professional!!
I was not diagnosed until I was 40! It was when my son (now 6) was diagnosed. I always knew something was different about me. I had never even heard about Asperger's until then.
Your story about the counting of numbers when you were five amazes me. Educators should consider the coping skills of a variety of children and employ them where needed, instead of trying to force square pegs into a round hole.