In the end, it is the buyer's fault, plain and simple. However, I agree that the seller is attempting to pull a fast one and should alter the way they list their items.
<< <i>If you dont read the ad you might not get what your expecting, thats what this is BUT if you actually read the ad then you know what your getting. Like when you see a Toyota for 9000 new. You see the words NEW , TOYOTA 9000$ and maybe you see the gasmileage rating. What you dont see is manual windows no AC no cruise no radio and no power locks. The car witha bunch of deletes. So you walk in there thinking your getting a great deal to learn its not. If you dont read and you buy then you get burned. If you read and you still buy and are unhappy then you are SOL. >>
To be a fair analogy, the Toyota ad would need to include a picture of the power windows, locks and AC that you don't get with the car. Because the EBay listings include images of multiple coins which aren't included.
I have yet to hear the seller or any of his/her defenders provide a credible reason to include images of coins that aren't being sold, other than to deceive/trick.
im not one to be easily bullied into jumping on the CU bandwagon, read the listing so you know what you are buying, plain and simple. if you cannot read, ask someone to read it for you. there is no reason ANYONE would be duped or misinformed if they would have read the listing, i dont care what excuse anyone here can come up with, its the buyers responsibility to read the auction description, and the terms, if he does not understand the description then he should not bid. yes the seller could have shown only one coin, but being that he is paying for the auction, that decision is left up to him.
regardless of how many posts I have, I don't consider myself an "expert" at anything
<< <i>im not one to be easily bullied into jumping on the CU bandwagon, read the listing so you know what you are buying, plain and simple. if you cannot read, ask someone to read it for you. there is no reason ANYONE would be duped or misinformed if they would have read the listing, i dont care what excuse anyone here can come up with, its the buyers responsibility to read the auction description, and the terms, if he does not understand the description then he should not bid. yes the seller could have shown only one coin, but being that he is paying for the auction, that decision is left up to him. >>
You continue to speak of the buyer's responsibility, and I don't disagree with that. But you also continue to ignore the sellers's responsibility and the fact that he or she is trying to fool bidders.
possibly the seller didnt feel like taking 40 pictures, and took a group picture and clearly stated in the auction title AND the auction listing that the bid was for ONE coin ? that is what the sller did, i dont believe he meant to deceive anyone, he ASSUMED people would actually READ the auction. why is it when a buyer fails to read the description, or the terms, the seller becomes a thief ? would it not be more accurate to say that the buyer did not take the time to read the description ?
regardless of how many posts I have, I don't consider myself an "expert" at anything
mark, i read the description and i dont feel that the seller is devious, had i not read the description, well i would expect to receive all coins pictured,... but i regularly read the descriptions and not just look at the pictures. and im not defending the guy, i am merely refusing to jump on the CU bandwagon.
regardless of how many posts I have, I don't consider myself an "expert" at anything
<< <i>mark, i read the description and i dont feel that the seller is devious, had i not read the description, well i would expect to receive all coins pictured,... but i regularly read the descriptions and not just look at the pictures. and im not defending the guy, i am merely refusing to jump on the CU bandwagon. >>
Fair enough. You obviously have no obligation to jump on the CU bandwagon, into a lake or anywhere else.
<< <i>if he took a picture of a single coin say a 1945 then if he sent a 1943 he would still be "deceiving" the buyer. and yes it does make sense. >>
You can argue that. But that form of deceit wouldn't result in any appreciable difference in value. And certainly not to the extent that an additional 29 coins does.
the listing says ONE coin, the title says COIN. what doesnt make sense is why anyone would bid without at least asking, "how many coins am i bidding on" obviously either buyer believes war nickels have become scarce, or they didnt ask.
regardless of how many posts I have, I don't consider myself an "expert" at anything
i dont agree that the picture is deceiving, the listing (aside from the spelling) is clear. if you dont know precisely what is being offered, you ask. or risk the seller screwing you by delivering exactly what was listed
regardless of how many posts I have, I don't consider myself an "expert" at anything
<< <i>i dont agree that the picture is deceiving, the listing (aside from the spelling) is clear. if you dont know precisely what is being offered, you ask. or risk the seller screwing you by delivering exactly what was listed >>
Must make the high bidder in this one just downright stupid! $31.00 for a single, circulated WT Nickel?
Given the bidding patterns in ALL this type of auction that this seller has running, I don;t think it really matters WHAT the auction says because folks continually mis-interpret it. I don;t think that stupidity is at play here as much as the taking advantage of peoples inherent ability to NOT read the fine print and IMO, there really shouldn't be FINE print for eBay listings.
People see a grouping of coins and naturally assume they are bidding on the group. Most don;t bother with some of the incoherent blather that a lot of sellers fill their descriptions with just like most folks don;t read each and EVERY page of a Deed of Trust when signing for a home purchase.
BTW, the under bidder has 688 separate experiences with eBay AND he's bidding on the other 3 exact same acutions this seller has.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
it's deceitful on the sellers part, which occurred as soon as he posted the item"s" for sale and before any "bidiots got involved." The title says one thing and the pic shows another. = intentional deceit. End of story
<< <i>Then a picture of a single coin would have sufficed! >>
Of course even then they would have to disclose that this was a "stock photo" and that the coin they receive probably won't be the same example which is pictured. Still, that's a lot less (intentionally) deceptive than taking a picture of 30 coins and burying the disclosure that you are only receiving one. Slimy.
<< <i>it's deceitful on the sellers part, which occurred as soon as he posted the item"s" for sale and before any "bidiots got involved." The title says one thing and the pic shows another. = intentional deceit. End of story >>
If I recall correctly, the picture of an item in an eBay auction is supposed to be of the "item" being sold and not a "bunch of the same items" being sold. This, I believe, is where the bidders are tripping up.
If I were to list a Dutch Auction for 20 1971 Kennedy Half Dollars but have a picture of 10 Kennedy Half's with 10 Franklin Half Dollars or 10 Walking Liberty Half's, I might attract a bunch of bidders but I'd also attract a bunch of negative publicity AND possibly invoke the wrath of the eBay Trust and Safety Team. Not to mention all the negs I'd get.
But then, where's the problem since the listing clearly states "1971 Kennedy Half Dollar".
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
i just asked the seller for clarification of how many coins were included in the sale, he responded within an hour... one coin. im assuming anyone else could have asked this same question as well if they had read the description and were even the slightest bit confused. i have no sympathy for people that dont/cant read. those people are 99% of the reason that ebay and paypal have gotten into the hand holding buisiness.
regardless of how many posts I have, I don't consider myself an "expert" at anything
I havn't looked into the aforementioned bidding patterns , but i think the poster of the comment was pointing something quite important out and might well be the crux of how the scam works.If theres a picture of 30 war nickels and an ebayer sees the bidding at $15 then it's a given that right away one assumes its for all the nickels.The trick is getting the bidding up which may or may not relate to the bidding patterns , i cant be ar$ed looking lol
<< <i>I havn't looked into the aforementioned bidding patterns , but i think the poster of the comment was pointing something quite important out and might well be the crux of how the scam works.If theres a picture of 30 war nickels and an ebayer sees the bidding at $15 then it's a given that right away one assumes its for all the nickels.The trick is getting the bidding up which may or may not relate to the bidding patterns , i cant be ar$ed looking lol >>
<< <i>i just asked the seller for clarification of how many coins were included in the sale, he responded within an hour... one coin. im assuming anyone else could have asked this same question as well if they had read the description and were even the slightest bit confused. i have no sympathy for people that dont/cant read. those people are 99% of the reason that ebay and paypal have gotten into the hand holding buisiness. >>
All of that might be true. But the listings should be presented in such a way that there is no question regarding how many items are included. And, as far as I know, that is Ebay's policy, not just mine. Some of us think it's rather obvious why the seller chose to do things differently.
<< <i>Then a picture of a single coin would have sufficed! >>
Of course even then they would have to disclose that this was a "stock photo" and that the coin they receive probably won't be the same example which is pictured. Still, that's a lot less (intentionally) deceptive than taking a picture of 30 coins and burying the disclosure that you are only receiving one. Slimy. >>
Yep. That's why I think that sellers should do it right, or not use ebay at all. Too much work to take a quick photo (for stuff like this, photo doesn't have to be set up for take 20 minutes...more like 2 minutes or less), then don't bother selling it (I practice what I preach on that as I have things I want to sell but consider it too much work, so I don't bother).
<< <i>Well, I don't know what anyone else sees, but it's pretty clear to me.
The auction is for, as it clearly states, a 35% silver 'war nickel'.
The guy even shows how much it's worth: $1.78 (when I checked the listing.)
I would guess a lot of people on this forum don't know ebay very well... that's a very common type of auction. >>
Really? I think that those of us who have a problem with the seller's listings know Ebay well enough. And, since you believe that's a very common type of auction, what percentage of EBay listings do you estimate, show images of 30 coins, when only one of them is actually for sale?
<< <i> The "what more" that I want is for a seller who is selling one coin to show a picture of that coin, and not a group of coins.
It is obvious that the seller's attempts at deception are successful and bidders are being fooled. Again, why show a group of coins like that, if not to deceive? >>
Of *course* they hope to deceive. (It's called 'business as usual in america'.)
Once there is a law, or an ebay *regulation* (as opposed to "recommendation") that requires sellers to be "express" and "direct" with their imagery, I'm sure the seller, and the thousands of others like them, (in various businesses, all across the USA,) will show an image of one coin and only one coin.
But don't expect it to happen in your lifetime. >>
Current EBay policy:
"Include a clear picture of the actual item being sold—don't use only stock pictures."
Keep the following guidelines in mind when you’re listing coins and paper money:
Include all relevant information that you know about the item, such as origin, date of issue, and condition.
Include a clear picture of the actual item being sold—don't use only stock pictures.
Include all information about any alterations that may have been made to the item.
Individually identify every item listed to avoid misunderstandings about what is for sale.
Don’t list the item if you’re unsure of its origin or authenticity.
Raw and uncertified coins
A raw or uncertified coin is defined as any coin not graded by an authorized grading company. Sellers can list these items on eBay as long as:
A numeric grade (such as MS-65, VF-25) is not included in the title of the listing. A numeric grade can only be included in the item description.
No grading company is referenced in the title or description.
No estimate of value (even if personal opinion) or reference to a price guide is included in the title or description.
The listing includes a photo of the coin being sold. Images that are dark, out of focus, edited, or might be misleading aren't allowed. Also, stock photos aren't allowed.
We realize that there are many dishonest sellers on EBay. But when you said that the type of listing being discussed was common, I thought you meant (literally) listings of that type - with images of many coins, but selling just one. Apparently, you meant misleading or dishonest listings, in general. And on that, we can agree.
Edited to add: Per EBay: "Make sure your listing follows these guidelines. If it doesn't, it may be removed, and you may be subject to a range of other actions, including limits of your buying and selling privileges and suspension of your account."
It happens frequently enough on ebay....at least for this seller since he has about 2 dozen auctions listed with the same 20-30 coin photos....all for a single coin.
The bidding pattern by one high (shill) bidder is indicative of a con. On some war nickel lots they bid to <$2, and on a couple of others they've jumped the bid straight to $15-$20.
If you read through several of these auctions you will find plurals at times (ie coins). The seller is not too good and keeping the coin(s) scam out of his own head.
<< <i>i dont agree that the picture is deceiving, the listing (aside from the spelling) is clear. if you dont know precisely what is being offered, you ask. or risk the seller screwing you by delivering exactly what was listed >>
Must make the high bidder in this one just downright stupid! $31.00 for a single, circulated WT Nickel?
Given the bidding patterns in ALL this type of auction that this seller has running, I don;t think it really matters WHAT the auction says because folks continually mis-interpret it. I don;t think that stupidity is at play here as much as the taking advantage of peoples inherent ability to NOT read the fine print and IMO, there really shouldn't be FINE print for eBay listings.
People see a grouping of coins and naturally assume they are bidding on the group. Most don;t bother with some of the incoherent blather that a lot of sellers fill their descriptions with just like most folks don;t read each and EVERY page of a Deed of Trust when signing for a home purchase.
BTW, the under bidder has 688 separate experiences with eBay AND he's bidding on the other 3 exact same acutions this seller has. >>
You don't need to go to the fine print, and I saw very little "incoherent blather". The seller tells you everything you need to know, very clearly in BIG GIANT print, including the auction title. I was taught long ago that when I'm buying something, to look it over very closely and be sure to know exactly what I'm getting for my money, and to always remember - what is written down takes precedence over the sellers "word". I'm not making excuses for "scumbags". I don't see this as big-time deceit. What I DO see, is a lot of (lazy) fools being separated from their money.
In reagards to the Toyota advert comparison, I have seen countless times where a car manufacturer (not just Toyota) shows a fully loaded sedan or truck with "Prices starting at just $19,000" in giant print above the car. Below, in microprint, if you look fast enough, it usually says something like "Vehicle Art for illustrations only". This means that that car you are looking at with the really great looking wheels might not have those wheels on the one you buy. Or, maybe it doesn’t even have that sunroof you see in the picture. They all do it. It's part of advertising, and actually this ebay auction is not as bad as nearly any television advertising. I really don't see what all the hubbub is about.
<< <i>Don't worry, the "winner" will get a good education for a relatively small amount of money. >>
.....and the seller will get a neg for not shipping what he has pictured so they will both get an education.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Comments
<< <i>If you dont read the ad you might not get what your expecting, thats what this is BUT if you actually read the ad then you know what your getting. Like when you see a Toyota for 9000 new. You see the words NEW , TOYOTA 9000$ and maybe you see the gasmileage rating. What you dont see is manual windows no AC no cruise no radio and no power locks. The car witha bunch of deletes. So you walk in there thinking your getting a great deal to learn its not. If you dont read and you buy then you get burned. If you read and you still buy and are unhappy then you are SOL. >>
To be a fair analogy, the Toyota ad would need to include a picture of the power windows, locks and AC that you don't get with the car. Because the EBay listings include images of multiple coins which aren't included.
I have yet to hear the seller or any of his/her defenders provide a credible reason to include images of coins that aren't being sold, other than to deceive/trick.
<< <i>im not one to be easily bullied into jumping on the CU bandwagon, read the listing so you know what you are buying, plain and simple. if you cannot read, ask someone to read it for you. there is no reason ANYONE would be duped or misinformed if they would have read the listing, i dont care what excuse anyone here can come up with, its the buyers responsibility to read the auction description, and the terms, if he does not understand the description then he should not bid. yes the seller could have shown only one coin, but being that he is paying for the auction, that decision is left up to him. >>
You continue to speak of the buyer's responsibility, and I don't disagree with that. But you also continue to ignore the sellers's responsibility and the fact that he or she is trying to fool bidders.
<< <i>mark, i read the description and i dont feel that the seller is devious, had i not read the description, well i would expect to receive all coins pictured,... but i regularly read the descriptions and not just look at the pictures. and im not defending the guy, i am merely refusing to jump on the CU bandwagon. >>
Fair enough. You obviously have no obligation to jump on the CU bandwagon, into a lake or anywhere else.
<< <i>possibly the seller didnt feel like taking 40 pictures, and took a group picture ... >>
Then a picture of a single coin would have sufficed!
<< <i>
<< <i>possibly the seller didnt feel like taking 40 pictures, and took a group picture ... >>
Then a picture of a single coin would have sufficed!
Yeah, that didn't make a whole lot of sense.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>if he took a picture of a single coin say a 1945 then if he sent a 1943 he would still be "deceiving" the buyer. and yes it does make sense. >>
You can argue that. But that form of deceit wouldn't result in any appreciable difference in value. And certainly not to the extent that an additional 29 coins does.
<< <i>i dont agree that the picture is deceiving, the listing (aside from the spelling) is clear. if you dont know precisely what is being offered, you ask. or risk the seller screwing you by delivering exactly what was listed >>
Must make the high bidder in this one just downright stupid! $31.00 for a single, circulated WT Nickel?
Given the bidding patterns in ALL this type of auction that this seller has running, I don;t think it really matters WHAT the auction says because folks continually mis-interpret it. I don;t think that stupidity is at play here as much as the taking advantage of peoples inherent ability to NOT read the fine print and IMO, there really shouldn't be FINE print for eBay listings.
People see a grouping of coins and naturally assume they are bidding on the group. Most don;t bother with some of the incoherent blather that a lot of sellers fill their descriptions with just like most folks don;t read each and EVERY page of a Deed of Trust when signing for a home purchase.
BTW, the under bidder has 688 separate experiences with eBay AND he's bidding on the other 3 exact same acutions this seller has.
The name is LEE!
for sale and before any "bidiots got involved."
The title says one thing and the pic shows another. = intentional deceit.
End of story
<< <i>Then a picture of a single coin would have sufficed!
Of course even then they would have to disclose that this was a "stock photo" and that the coin they receive probably won't be the same example which is pictured. Still, that's a lot less (intentionally) deceptive than taking a picture of 30 coins and burying the disclosure that you are only receiving one. Slimy.
<< <i>The sellers feedback already makes interesting if painful reading , it might get a whole lot more interesting in the coming days. >>
<< <i>if he took a picture of a single coin say a 1945 then if he sent a 1943 he would still be "deceiving" the buyer. and yes it does make sense. >>
How is this any different than taking a picture of 20, including a 1943 and 1945 and only sending one? You are proving the argument for everyone else.
<< <i>it's deceitful on the sellers part, which occurred as soon as he posted the item"s"
for sale and before any "bidiots got involved."
The title says one thing and the pic shows another. = intentional deceit.
End of story >>
If I recall correctly, the picture of an item in an eBay auction is supposed to be of the "item" being sold and not a "bunch of the same items" being sold. This, I believe, is where the bidders are tripping up.
If I were to list a Dutch Auction for 20 1971 Kennedy Half Dollars but have a picture of 10 Kennedy Half's with 10 Franklin Half Dollars or 10 Walking Liberty Half's, I might attract a bunch of bidders but I'd also attract a bunch of negative publicity AND possibly invoke the wrath of the eBay Trust and Safety Team. Not to mention all the negs I'd get.
But then, where's the problem since the listing clearly states "1971 Kennedy Half Dollar".
The name is LEE!
<< <i>With that kind of grasp on the English language, how could you go wrong?
ware time nickel.
its definetly singular...
<< <i>I havn't looked into the aforementioned bidding patterns , but i think the poster of the comment was pointing something quite important out and might well be the crux of how the scam works.If theres a picture of 30 war nickels and an ebayer sees the bidding at $15 then it's a given that right away one assumes its for all the nickels.The trick is getting the bidding up which may or may not relate to the bidding patterns , i cant be ar$ed looking lol >>
<< <i>i just asked the seller for clarification of how many coins were included in the sale, he responded within an hour... one coin. im assuming anyone else could have asked this same question as well if they had read the description and were even the slightest bit confused. i have no sympathy for people that dont/cant read. those people are 99% of the reason that ebay and paypal have gotten into the hand holding buisiness. >>
All of that might be true. But the listings should be presented in such a way that there is no question regarding how many items are included. And, as far as I know, that is Ebay's policy, not just mine. Some of us think it's rather obvious why the seller chose to do things differently.
<< <i>
<< <i>Then a picture of a single coin would have sufficed!
Of course even then they would have to disclose that this was a "stock photo" and that the coin they receive probably won't be the same example which is pictured. Still, that's a lot less (intentionally) deceptive than taking a picture of 30 coins and burying the disclosure that you are only receiving one. Slimy. >>
Yep. That's why I think that sellers should do it right, or not use ebay at all.
Too much work to take a quick photo (for stuff like this, photo doesn't have to be set up for take 20 minutes...more like 2 minutes or less), then don't bother selling it (I practice what I preach on that as I have things I want to sell but consider it too much work, so I don't bother).
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>Well, I don't know what anyone else sees, but it's pretty clear to me.
The auction is for, as it clearly states, a 35% silver 'war nickel'.
The guy even shows how much it's worth: $1.78 (when I checked the listing.)
I would guess a lot of people on this forum don't know ebay very well... that's a very common type of auction. >>
Really? I think that those of us who have a problem with the seller's listings know Ebay well enough. And, since you believe that's a very common type of auction, what percentage of EBay listings do you estimate, show images of 30 coins, when only one of them is actually for sale?
<< <i>
<< <i>
The "what more" that I want is for a seller who is selling one coin to show a picture of that coin, and not a group of coins.
It is obvious that the seller's attempts at deception are successful and bidders are being fooled. Again, why show a group of coins like that, if not to deceive? >>
Of *course* they hope to deceive. (It's called 'business as usual in america'.)
Once there is a law, or an ebay *regulation* (as opposed to "recommendation") that requires sellers to be "express" and "direct" with their imagery, I'm sure the seller, and the thousands of others like them, (in various businesses, all across the USA,) will show an image of one coin and only one coin.
But don't expect it to happen in your lifetime. >>
Current EBay policy:
"Include a clear picture of the actual item being sold—don't use only stock pictures."
<< <i>Well, I don't know what anyone else sees, but it's pretty clear to me.
The auction is for, as it clearly states, a 35% silver 'war nickel'.
The guy even shows how much it's worth: $1.78 (when I checked the listing.)
I would guess a lot of people on this forum don't know ebay very well... that's a very common type of auction. >>
Yeah, that must be it. We don't know eBay very well.
(And, no, it isn't a "common" type of auction).
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>
<< <i>Current EBay policy:
"Include a clear picture of the actual item being sold—don't use only stock pictures." >>
If you don't mind, give me the link to that.
That used to be only a 'recommendation'.
In fact, you don't even HAVE to use an image, ANY image, (unless that's been changed.)
I hope they DID change it, but I have my doubts. >>
Here you go
Coins and paper money
Keep the following guidelines in mind when you’re listing coins and paper money:
Include all relevant information that you know about the item, such as origin, date of issue, and condition.
Include a clear picture of the actual item being sold—don't use only stock pictures.
Include all information about any alterations that may have been made to the item.
Individually identify every item listed to avoid misunderstandings about what is for sale.
Don’t list the item if you’re unsure of its origin or authenticity.
Raw and uncertified coins
A raw or uncertified coin is defined as any coin not graded by an authorized grading company. Sellers can list these items on eBay as long as:
A numeric grade (such as MS-65, VF-25) is not included in the title of the listing. A numeric grade can only be included in the item description.
No grading company is referenced in the title or description.
No estimate of value (even if personal opinion) or reference to a price guide is included in the title or description.
The listing includes a photo of the coin being sold. Images that are dark, out of focus, edited, or might be misleading aren't allowed. Also, stock photos aren't allowed.
<< <i>Thanks, I'll check it out & BBL.
In the meantime, just scroll down THIS list: (link below, to ebay main coins category: search: "roll")
If you think ebay is filled with honest sellers... well... (now you see, I don't even have a good joke to end that with, LOL!!)
Roll-ebay >>
We realize that there are many dishonest sellers on EBay. But when you said that the type of listing being discussed was common, I thought you meant (literally) listings of that type - with images of many coins, but selling just one. Apparently, you meant misleading or dishonest listings, in general. And on that, we can agree.
Edited to add: Per EBay: "Make sure your listing follows these guidelines. If it doesn't, it may be removed, and you may be subject to a range of other actions, including limits of your buying and selling privileges and suspension of your account."
If it is for one coin they should show one coin.
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
The bidding pattern by one high (shill) bidder is indicative of a con. On some war nickel lots they bid to <$2, and on a couple of others they've jumped the bid straight to $15-$20.
If you read through several of these auctions you will find plurals at times (ie coins). The seller is not too good and keeping the coin(s) scam out of his own head.
roadrunner
<< <i>
<< <i>i dont agree that the picture is deceiving, the listing (aside from the spelling) is clear. if you dont know precisely what is being offered, you ask. or risk the seller screwing you by delivering exactly what was listed >>
Must make the high bidder in this one just downright stupid! $31.00 for a single, circulated WT Nickel?
Given the bidding patterns in ALL this type of auction that this seller has running, I don;t think it really matters WHAT the auction says because folks continually mis-interpret it. I don;t think that stupidity is at play here as much as the taking advantage of peoples inherent ability to NOT read the fine print and IMO, there really shouldn't be FINE print for eBay listings.
People see a grouping of coins and naturally assume they are bidding on the group. Most don;t bother with some of the incoherent blather that a lot of sellers fill their descriptions with just like most folks don;t read each and EVERY page of a Deed of Trust when signing for a home purchase.
BTW, the under bidder has 688 separate experiences with eBay AND he's bidding on the other 3 exact same acutions this seller has. >>
You don't need to go to the fine print, and I saw very little "incoherent blather". The seller tells you everything you need to know, very clearly in BIG GIANT print, including the auction title.
I was taught long ago that when I'm buying something, to look it over very closely and be sure to know exactly what I'm getting for my money, and to always remember - what is written down takes precedence over the sellers "word".
I'm not making excuses for "scumbags". I don't see this as big-time deceit. What I DO see, is a lot of (lazy) fools being separated from their money.
In reagards to the Toyota advert comparison, I have seen countless times where a car manufacturer (not just Toyota) shows a fully loaded sedan or truck with "Prices starting at just $19,000" in giant print above the car. Below, in microprint, if you look fast enough, it usually says something like "Vehicle Art for illustrations only". This means that that car you are looking at with the really great looking wheels might not have those wheels on the one you buy. Or, maybe it doesn’t even have that sunroof you see in the picture. They all do it. It's part of advertising, and actually this ebay auction is not as bad as nearly any television advertising.
I really don't see what all the hubbub is about.
<< <i>Don't worry, the "winner" will get a good education for a relatively small amount of money. >>
.....and the seller will get a neg for not shipping what he has pictured so they will both get an education.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire