The turn-off of stale stock
halfcentman
Posts: 1,498 ✭✭✭
I would like to hear from both sides of the aisle on this one:
As a non-table holder, I find that dealers who run "museums" with their stock to be a tremendous turn-off. However, that does not mean that their tables are not worthy of perusal because there may be a newp hiding in there.
On the other hand (I am going to pay someone a huge compliment here, and not just because he is my friend), "Seaeagle" on this forum is the antithesis of this. Alhtough not a huge dealer, Larry does a very good job of keeping his stock fresh when I used to attend Parsippany, NJ months back - but I also have heard from several people that nothing has changed. I do not think it takes a rocket scientist to wonder why Larry is literally attacked for the most of the day. People are willing to pay top dollar for what they want because Larry tries real hard to get it. In turn, Larry gets offered more material because he is a really nice guy to work with, and he's not shy at paying realistic market values.
The other point I want to make is what dealers with stale stocks are thinking when their coins languish month after month. I understand that some coins may not be a hot commodity in some areas of the region or country. However, I am referring to the dealers who set up at the same one or two shows every month. Wouldn't you think that an adjustment needs to be made to get some of that stuff moving so you can get some cash flow? Even if you take a hit, having that cash flow enables you to make it up on the next deal. To me, that's good PR and good business.
Your thoughts, and once again thanks for reading my post.
Greg
As a non-table holder, I find that dealers who run "museums" with their stock to be a tremendous turn-off. However, that does not mean that their tables are not worthy of perusal because there may be a newp hiding in there.
On the other hand (I am going to pay someone a huge compliment here, and not just because he is my friend), "Seaeagle" on this forum is the antithesis of this. Alhtough not a huge dealer, Larry does a very good job of keeping his stock fresh when I used to attend Parsippany, NJ months back - but I also have heard from several people that nothing has changed. I do not think it takes a rocket scientist to wonder why Larry is literally attacked for the most of the day. People are willing to pay top dollar for what they want because Larry tries real hard to get it. In turn, Larry gets offered more material because he is a really nice guy to work with, and he's not shy at paying realistic market values.
The other point I want to make is what dealers with stale stocks are thinking when their coins languish month after month. I understand that some coins may not be a hot commodity in some areas of the region or country. However, I am referring to the dealers who set up at the same one or two shows every month. Wouldn't you think that an adjustment needs to be made to get some of that stuff moving so you can get some cash flow? Even if you take a hit, having that cash flow enables you to make it up on the next deal. To me, that's good PR and good business.
Your thoughts, and once again thanks for reading my post.
Greg
0
Comments
One local B&M I follow attends shows 2-3X a month and the inventory probably only turns about once every 10 years. I can't figure it out. They are retired from a former 30 yr career, but they still have to pay the rent and utilities on the store in a fairly nice section near the shoreline. There is rarely anything worth purchasing out on display, and almost nothing fresh. One can only figure that either someone else is helping to front the store or it's basically there for buying only such that newps go right out the door to a favored wholesaler/retailer. Odd that they almost never even have a single $20 Saint or Lib for sale...and this during the biggest gold rush of the past 30 yrs. The shop has been in business for >5 yrs. A friend of mine sold them an average looking PCGS 65 seated dime back at the 2003 pre-ANA show. It's still in inventory and nowhere near close to current levels. The problem could also be that a more competitive store only 30 miles away gets the lion's share of the business.
roadrunner
<< <i>I love Larry. He's a great guy. My father was named after him. >>
Stale stock does not always mean bad coins. A coin can remain in inventory for a long time because it is priced too high. But some dealers won't reduce the listed price because they figure a buyer will eventually come along who is willing to pay it. However, if you see an otherwise great coin that you think is priced too high and it remains in a dealer's inventory for a month or more, you should ask if that's their best price. They could tell you it's on memo or some other reason and they have no flexibility with the price, or they could decide to sell it to you for less just to move the coin and because you're the first to ask.
TD
(P.S.: Also, you can't expect them to throw away stock after xxx days. These aren't bananas we're talking about here.......)
<< <i>Stale stock can but not always, can be a result of pricing that is not market based. >>
Yep, or else an item so esoteric that there are few people who would be interested in the item -- and it can take months to find a buyer even if the price is in the ballpark.
Also note, it is not uncommon for a coin to sit unsold in inventory for a long time, and then sell for more at auction. Heritage has a gazillion buyers, the guy on the local show circuit gets only a few hundred walking past his table.
In terms of fresh inventory, the CRO guys have to be one of the best. Unfortunately they don't stock much of what I collect
<< <i>In terms of fresh inventory, the CRO guys have to be one of the best. Unfortunately they don't stock much of what I collect
I think it's pretty clear, then, that you need to change what you collect!
First, let me say that the CRO guys are my heros!!! Really... I truly admire their business model and would love to be a J6P version of them someday
and RYK... I would like to be able to say that my father was named after you but the best i can offer is that my cousin became a Radiologist cause he wanted to be like you... and I even used to work in the Radiology Dept at the Hospital where I work. For the most past, i always found the Radiologists to be the coolest and most laid back docs in the joint...
HalfCentMan... thanks for the thread. I am honored to be your friend and for being able to call you my friend!!! I might even send you a letter with a Love stamp on it
Now... to inventory management. A tough job in a business that has no factories or warehouses to order from. OK, if you handle moderns, you've got the mint... if you handle generics there are always wholesalers to order from... but if you want to handle unique, hard-to-find and desireable to the "hard-core"(rather than hole-filler, label buying) collector, well you have your work cut out for you.
Some of the best I know of personally are RichUrich, Glenn Holsonbake, Andy Lustig, JJ Teaparty. njcoincrank, TomB, Legend, Julian Leidman and there are others... but these folks come to mind as not just a great source for quality and uniqueness... they are also strong, ready buyers of quality coins who truly understand that price guides are only guides... and that a coin with a problem is always going to be a coin with a problem... and they are nice people to boot.
But like Julian has commented on this forum in the past, as well as others... just because a coin sits in inventory a long time is not always a negative... sometimes one has to wait for the "stars to align" and the "right" person to come along for a special (or sometimes a not so special) coin. I would say that if I am sitting on a generic coin for more than a few months, I may need to take a closer look at the coin... and maybe even "cut my losses" and move on.
Into my first year as a dealer, I heard words spoken by a "regular" at my table that I NEVER want to hear again... "Wow, when are you gonna get some new coins? This is the same stuff you have had for several months now"...
First move was to rearrange everything in the cases... that helped for a proverbial minute
Another lesson I learned early on... I heard it said that one of the keys to success in this business is to accept that NOT EVERY COIN WILL BE A MONEY MAKER. The trick is to be able to recognize when a coin needs to move on AND be willing to take the neccesary loss, if need be, to move it on. Take the money and reinvest... and strive to learn... to grow... to build relationships... and hope to minimize one's "mistakes"... do not avoid them... they will occur... but try to learn from them... and if you can be succesfully profitable at least 60-70% of the time, you will be ahead of the game when the dust settles (although the dust never really settles on an active business)
Remember, some coins just need to change location to find a buyer (a basic "rule" of retail). I can think of many times when this has happened... coins I have moved to another location in my display, that suddenly appear "brand new" to a regular customer... or coins I have purchased from a dealer set up near me, a coin they have "sat on" for months... and sold it at the same show on the same day!!
One weekend early last year, I "blew out" a large lot of stale inventory for a $1000 loss on a Saturday... then on Sunday with a refreshed inventory, I made $1600 in profit (remember, I'm a little guppy in the numismatic sea)... at a show where most dealers were twiddling their thumbs, while I could barely get away from my table to go pee. Overall, I call that a truly successful weekend!!!
And one of the keys I have learned from the dealers mentioned above... if you want to be able to offer special coins... be generous when making offers for special coins... and gracious when you must decline...and NEVER bury a customer in a coin... because, besides it not being a nice thing to do, the dirt may fall back on you one day...
A final thought (for now
I strive to learn... to adapt... to remain humbly open to advice and lessons...to learn what my customers want rather than CONvince them of what they should want...to always be willing to change when needed...
Heck, two years ago, I started a thread here stating that I was swearing off slabbed coins... now, after a number of humbling and eye-opening lessons, I have become an Authorized PCGS Dealer... live and learn... and collect what you like so that hopefully, you will always like what you collect.
<< <i>Aww shucks, guys... I like you too
First, let me say that the CRO guys are my heros!!! Really... I truly admire their business model and would love to be a J6P version of them someday
and RYK... I would like to be able to say that my father was named after you but the best i can offer is that my cousin became a Radiologist cause he wanted to be like you... and I even used to work in the Radiology Dept at the Hospital where I work. For the most past, i always found the Radiologists to be the coolest and most laid back docs in the joint...
HalfCentMan... thanks for the thread. I am honored to be your friend and for being able to call you my friend!!! I might even send you a letter with a Love stamp on it
Now... to inventory management. A tough job in a business that has no factories or warehouses to order from. OK, if you handle moderns, you've got the mint... if you handle generics there are always wholesalers to order from... but if you want to handle unique, hard-to-find and desireable to the "hard-core"(rather than hole-filler, label buying) collector, well you have your work cut out for you.
Some of the best I know of personally are RichUrich, Glenn Holsonbake, Andy Lustig, JJ Teaparty. njcoincrank, TomB, Legend, Julian Leidman and there are others... but these folks come to mind as not just a great source for quality and uniqueness... they are also strong, ready buyers of quality coins who truly understand that price guides are only guides... and that a coin with a problem is always going to be a coin with a problem... and they are nice people to boot.
But like Julian has commented on this forum in the past, as well as others... just because a coin sits in inventory a long time is not always a negative... sometimes one has to wait for the "stars to align" and the "right" person to come along for a special (or sometimes a not so special) coin. I would say that if I am sitting on a generic coin for more than a few months, I may need to take a closer look at the coin... and maybe even "cut my losses" and move on.
Into my first year as a dealer, I heard words spoken by a "regular" at my table that I NEVER want to hear again... "Wow, when are you gonna get some new coins? This is the same stuff you have had for several months now"...
First move was to rearrange everything in the cases... that helped for a proverbial minute
Another lesson I learned early on... I heard it said that one of the keys to success in this business is to accept that NOT EVERY COIN WILL BE A MONEY MAKER. The trick is to be able to recognize when a coin needs to move on AND be willing to take the neccesary loss, if need be, to move it on. Take the money and reinvest... and strive to learn... to grow... to build relationships... and hope to minimize one's "mistakes"... do not avoid them... they will occur... but try to learn from them... and if you can be succesfully profitable at least 60-70% of the time, you will be ahead of the game when the dust settles (although the dust never really settles on an active business)
Remember, some coins just need to change location to find a buyer (a basic "rule" of retail). I can think of many times when this has happened... coins I have moved to another location in my display, that suddenly appear "brand new" to a regular customer... or coins I have purchased from a dealer set up near me, a coin they have "sat on" for months... and sold it at the same show on the same day!!
One weekend early last year, I "blew out" a large lot of stale inventory for a $1000 loss on a Saturday... then on Sunday with a refreshed inventory, I made $1600 in profit (remember, I'm a little guppy in the numismatic sea)... at a show where most dealers were twiddling their thumbs, while I could barely get away from my table to go pee. Overall, I call that a truly successful weekend!!!
And one of the keys I have learned from the dealers mentioned above... if you want to be able to offer special coins... be generous when making offers for special coins... and gracious when you must decline...and NEVER bury a customer in a coin... because, besides it not being a nice thing to do, the dirt may fall back on you one day...
A final thought (for now
I strive to learn... to adapt... to remain humbly open to advice and lessons...to learn what my customers want rather than CONvince them of what they should want...to always be willing to change when needed...
Heck, two years ago, I started a thread here stating that I was swearing off slabbed coins... now, after a number of humbling and eye-opening lessons, I have become an Authorized PCGS Dealer... live and learn... and collect what you like so that hopefully, you will always like what you collect.
Some very good business practices!
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
First, I'm proud to call Larry my friend.
As a dealer, he also has a really great inventory, and he really is one of the "good guys". Larry has been instrumental in helping me build my Barber Half set that I cherish, and puts quite a lot of effort into maintaining a fresh stock of nice coins.
Plus he's fun to hang out with!
Sound advice, and right on the proverbial money.
Larry is a perfect example of out-of-the-box thinking. He's also an out-of-the-box kind of guy!!
Greg