Interesting!! South Carolina looking into minting their own currency...
ormandh
Posts: 3,111 ✭✭✭
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ormandh
Posts: 3,111 ✭✭✭
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Allen Berger worked at the Federal Reserve for 26 years as a financial economist and is now a professor of Banking and Finance at USC. He says there's no need for the state to create its own currency of gold and silver coins because people can already buy them as a hedge against inflation.
no thank you.
The strike below is on a silver alloy with the dies they use for the gold.
How's that for a retirement plan?
Will’sProoflikes
<< . . . Georgia, Virginia and Missouri are also looking at the same thing. >>
I'll buy a Georgia coin if it's minted in Dahlonega.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>backed by the full faith and trust of ...south carolina
no thank you. >>
I would agree with you if we were talking about paper money but gold or silver coins would probably be contracted out to one of the major refineries and should be safe to buy provided you only paid a small premium over melt value. Remember the vouchers that California was passing out when they ran out of money?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
COLUMBIA, S.C. (AP) — Tax collections and spending cuts have helped drop South Carolina's budget deficit closer to $700 million, down from an earlier forecast of $829 million.
Hey cornell's lawsite is great!
check this out From The Constitution!
No state shall enter into any treaty, alliance, or confederation; grant letters of marque and reprisal; coin money; emit bills of credit; make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts; pass any bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law impairing the obligation of contracts, or grant any title of nobility.
I read the "make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts" as not to require some state mandated burden on the people as the feds are responsible for "money" not the state.
emit bills of credit? I'll have to study up on that, but it makes me question Calif's IOUs.
<< <i>At least there was some voice of reason in the article.
Allen Berger worked at the Federal Reserve for 26 years as a financial economist and is now a professor of Banking and Finance at USC. He says there's no need for the state to create its own currency of gold and silver coins because people can already buy them as a hedge against inflation. >>
This Gerger guy's arguements totally miss the point and are suspect. He worked for the "Federal Reserve" who are running this country into financial ruin.... great credentials.
If SC has it's own currency that is widely accepted within the state, it would allow the people of SC to have a stable currency when the fiat currency of the US dollar goes through hyper inflation. Historically, between people getting their check and cashing it in, they would lose most of it's value. That's hyper inflation.
Sure, you can hold gold and silver but you will have to trade it in for the US fiat currency. Why go through the hassle and potential risks during the EMINENT coming death of the US dollar when a state accepted currency could just be traded in locally and conveniently.... protecting the local people to some degree.
He also claims that people would accept the fiat US dollars over silver and gold.... BS, let SC do it and let's see what the people choose. This is still America, isn't it?
Why are some of you people so oppose to local currencies backed with gold or silver? I mean I though you guys collected coins here?
Just sayin....
<< <i>
<< <i>At least there was some voice of reason in the article.
Allen Berger worked at the Federal Reserve for 26 years as a financial economist and is now a professor of Banking and Finance at USC. He says there's no need for the state to create its own currency of gold and silver coins because people can already buy them as a hedge against inflation. >>
This Gerger guy's arguements totally miss the point and are suspect. He worked for the "Federal Reserve" who are running this country into financial ruin.... great credentials.
If SC has it's own currency that is widely accepted within the state, it would allow the people of SC to have a stable currency when the fiat currency of the US dollar goes through hyper inflation. Historically, between people getting their check and cashing it in, they would lose most of it's value. That's hyper inflation.
Sure, you can hold gold and silver but you will have to trade it in for the US fiat currency. Why go through the hassle and potential risks during the EMINENT coming death of the US dollar when a state accepted currency could just be traded in locally and conveniently.... protecting the local people to some degree.
He also claims that people would accept the fiat US dollars over silver and gold.... BS, let SC do it and let's see what the people choose. This is still America, isn't it?
Why are some of you people so oppose to local currencies backed with gold or silver? I mean I though you guys collected coins here? >>
Because the Constitution doesn't allow it? You know - 'just that piece of paper'...
<< <i>I think any state can issue their own gold and silver bullion, but they can't denominate them in US dollars and demand payment for taxes in them. They would only be taking business away from any other bullion company that makes silver rounds and gold bars. So it comes down to this big question - "What's the point?" >>
Ohhhh.... I'd like to hear more on this interpretation of the Constitution.
I don't think they could make money of any sort no matter the currency (dollar, amero, palmettogold, SCpeso, etc), metal content, nor whether it is required usage (although what's the point of minting it if it's not required?)
"No State shall...coin money"
Article I, Section 8 of the US Constitution
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;
To establish a uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;
To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States; (I note the words "fantasy coin minting" are not mentioned!
To establish post offices and post roads;
To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;
To constitute tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court;
To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations;
To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;
To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;
To provide and maintain a navy;
To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces;
To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings;--And
To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.
That's my point. They would in effect just be minting bullion medals, not coinage. So, why not just use gold and silver American eagles as currency? Fix the rate at some percentage over spot and......hey wait a minute, that's what we do now!
Linkified
<< <i>That's my point. They would in effect just be minting bullion medals, not coinage. So, why not just use gold and silver American eagles as currency? Fix the rate at some percentage over spot and......hey wait a minute, that's what we do now! >>
I disagree. Even though it isn't "money," can't legally be called a "dollar," or any other denomination, it still has the imprimatur of the state. Don't discount that.
Also, any state could compete against the US Mint for bullion product sales and probably do it with a lot less overhead.
Would you rather own a first spouse gold coin with a high markup, or a South Carolina-authorized coin-like "gold bullion product" with a picture of the Confederate Flag on it at 5% over melt?
Political flames aside, I think market for the latter would be a lot stronger.
Given the claim that the private minters make on TV already (we've all seen the ads), think how much stronger those ads could be if they were legitimate state promotions.
<< <i>Ridiculous. >>
I agree since the States themselves are "backed" by the Federal Government whose "currency" they routinely draw from for various "pork barrel" projects to subsidize their "state economies".
Quite frankly, other than commemorative "coins" sold to supplement that ecomomy, talk of minting your own State Currency shows a lack of faith toward the Federal Government which also sounds a lot like civil rebellion. What next? Cessation when they are told no by the Feds?
In reality, the term "currency" does not belong in South Carolina's discussion since it "implies" a whole lot more than simply making something and selling it for profit.
The name is LEE!
It would get promoted with State money and not have any buy-in program, so the dealers would be the secondary market. The next destination - the melting pot.
<< <i>I think they would be just a popular as Franklin Mint stuff.
It would get promoted with State money and not have any buy-in program, so the dealers would be the secondary market. The next destination - the melting pot. >>
The thing of it is Rick, if so many states are contemplating this, they don't necessarily have to be made from PM's as there are heavy tourism markets that would eat these up in brass, copper or bronze with minimal costs. Of course Silver and Gold could always be options but they're simply trying to make up for lost Federal Revenues.
No state could stand on its own economy with the exception of those that have their own natural resources.
Idaho comes to mind.
And of course Nevada with their gambling and their many, ah-hem, "ranches".
The name is LEE!
<< <i>According to the article:
<< . . . Georgia, Virginia and Missouri are also looking at the same thing. >>
I'll buy a Georgia coin if it's minted in Dahlonega.
It's the state quarters all over again.
roadrunner
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
I think you are thinking that a state can actually make its own currency and then, what? Base it on the strength of its economy? If that is what you think, then you are expecting the states to replicate the Fed.
They (the states) will find that they can't even call their issues coins or currency.
<< <i>Because the Constitution doesn't allow it? You know - 'just that piece of paper'... >>
Yes, that same "piece of paper" that only allows for payment of debts in gold and silver coin.
roadrunner
Section 10 - Powers prohibited of States
No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make anything but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.
Of course, I think the Coinage Bill of 1965 changed the gold and silver provision.
<< <i>The thing of it is Rick, if so many states are contemplating this, they don't necessarily have to be made from PM's as there are heavy tourism markets that would eat these up in brass, copper or bronze with minimal costs. Of course Silver and Gold could always be options but they're simply trying to make up for lost Federal Revenues.
I think you are thinking that a state can actually make its own currency and then, what? Base it on the strength of its economy? If that is what you think, then you are expecting the states to replicate the Fed.
They (the states) will find that they can't even call their issues coins or currency. >>
I'm not thinking that at all Rick. I;m thinking states can coin commemoratives which they can sell for a premium to subsidize their weakened economies.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>Currencies "backed by the full faith of the government of the State of South Carolina?" >>
Given a choice between rapidly depreciating paper and a gold or silver coin that is appreciating in value, it's a no brainer.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Yes, its called investing.