Did the U.S. Mint grossly overproduce the 2001 Golden Dollars featuring Sacagawea???
Goldbully
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Goldbully
Posts: 17,986 ✭✭✭✭✭
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January 2001 through December 2001
......................................... 1 ¢ .................... 5 ¢ .................... 10 ¢ .................... 25 ¢ .................... 50 ¢ .................... 1 $ - GD .................... Total:
Denver ........................ 5374.99 M .......... 627.68 M .......... 1412.80 M .......... 2324.58 M .......... 19.50 M .......... 70.94 M .......... 9830.50 M
Philadelphia .............. 4959.60 M .......... 675.70 M .......... 1369.59 M .......... 2482.40 M .......... 21.20 M .......... 62.47 M .......... 9570.96 M
Total: ........................ 10334.59 M .......... 1303.38 M .......... 2782.39 M .......... 4806.98 M .......... 40.70 M .......... 133.41 M .......... 19401.46 M
2000 Circulating Coin Production (in millions)
January 2000 through December 2000
......................................... 1 ¢ .................... 5 ¢ .................... 10 ¢ .................... 25 ¢ .................... 50 ¢ .................... 1 $ - GD .................... Total:
Denver ........................ 8774.22 M .......... 1509.52 M .......... 1818.70 M .......... 2805.52 M .......... 19.47 M .......... 518.92 M .......... 15446.34 M
Philadelphia .............. 5503.20 M .......... 846.24 M .......... 1842.50 M .......... 3665.42 M .......... 22.60 M .......... 767.14 M .......... 12647.10 M
Total: ........................ 14277.42 M .......... 2355.76 M .......... 3661.20 M .......... 6470.93 M .......... 42.07 M .......... 1286.06 M .......... 28093.43 M
Then they figured it out:
2002 Circulating Coin Production (in millions)
January 2002 through December 2002
......................................... 1 ¢ .................... 5 ¢ .................... 10 ¢ .................... 25 ¢ .................... 50 ¢ .................... 1 $ - GD .................... Total:
Denver ........................ 4028.06 M .......... 691.20 M .......... 1379.50 M .......... 1720.30 M .......... 2.50 M .......... 3.73 M .......... 7825.29 M
Philadelphia .............. 3260.80 M .......... 539.28 M .......... 1187.50 M .......... 1593.40 M .......... 3.10 M .......... 3.87 M .......... 6587.95 M
Total: ........................ 7288.86 M .......... 1230.48 M .......... 2567.00 M .......... 3313.70 M .......... 5.60 M .......... 7.60 M .......... 14413.24 M
ya think they're looking for Cheerios first?!?!?!
Many people would get rolls of the new coins at the banks and spend them for their novelty value. I certainly did. It was nice spending nice, shiny coins.
Somewhere during 2001 the Mint and the Fed decided that "OK, it's time to start recycling them." This was not unreasonable, since coins are made to be used more than once.
Banks that ordered dollar coins from the Fed suddenly started getting rolls of slkightly used but usually somewhat tarnished Sackies mixed with (HORRORS!) used Susan B. Anthony dollars. The people out there still hated SBA's, and stopped ordering rolls from the banks. The surplus of 2001's, struck in response to the relatively large demand for the 2000's, never got shipped to the Fed or the banks.
TD
Someday soon, all those coins WILL be needed to meet circulating demand for one dollar denominations. Why else would they have produced 2+ Billion of them?
The name is LEE!
<< <i>sacs are also used in Ecuador.
True, but from what I understand, those SAC's are homemade!~
The name is LEE!
<< <i>Why else would they have produced 2+ Billion of them? >>
I'm not sure. that much logic can be applied to their decision making.
I'm thinking part of the story is overestimating demand and potential for circulation, although I also acknowledge the wisdom already supplied.
<< <i>
<< <i>Why else would they have produced 2+ Billion of them? >>
I'm not sure. that much logic can be applied to their decision making.
I'm thinking part of the story is overestimating demand and potential for circulation, although I also acknowledge the wisdom already supplied. >>
Look at production figures for the first three years of the Ikes, the Susies and the Sackies.
Can you detect a pattern here????????
<< <i>and to a lesser (slower) extent the Kennedy Half Dollars? >>
It took them a lot longer to die.
How about the twenty cent piece? Large first year mintage. Small second year mintage. Proof only in the third year.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Why else would they have produced 2+ Billion of them? >>
I'm not sure. that much logic can be applied to their decision making.
I'm thinking part of the story is overestimating demand and potential for circulation, although I also acknowledge the wisdom already supplied. >>
Look at production figures for the first three years of the Ikes, the Susies and the Sackies.
Can you detect a pattern here????????
The first 3 years of IKE production (288,024,991) wasn't even one-third of the First YEAR of Presidential Dollars (940,870,000) which through 2010 has a total production of 2,078,890,000 coins.
That figure doesn't include the SAC's and NA's which show totals from 2000 through 2010 at 1,616,341,110 coins.
Add all those together and its 3,695,231,110 in copper/mayonnaise colored coins!
SBA's had a HUGE minting in the 1st year but was dead by the middle of 1980 as the coin was completely rejected. The mayo coins, on the other hand, have had a bit more sustaining power ......... OR ......... there's a bigger plan in the works.
The name is LEE!
The SBA's were in drastic decline in mintage by the end of 1979. A mint official calculated near date SBA's were as common as far date ones by counting the number of dies for each. I figure most of the near date dies were not ued due to the decline in mintage.
<< <i>Did the U.S. Mint grossly overproduce the 2001 Golden Dollars featuring Sacagawea??? >>
The first one produced was one too many. The American public does NOT WANT A DOLLAR COIN!
Edit to add: Sorry about the yelling, but it seems to take that for many people on the boards (as well as the Congress/mint) to hear.
<< <i>
<< <i>Did the U.S. Mint grossly overproduce the 2001 Golden Dollars featuring Sacagawea??? >>
The first one produced was one too many. The American public does NOT WANT A DOLLAR COIN!
Edit to add: Sorry about the yelling, but it seems to take that for many people on the boards (as well as the Congress/mint) to hear. >>
As long as there's a paper buck to use, your absolutely right.
Take away the paper and the need for a 1 dollar denomination still exists though. Both Canada and Great Britain eliminated the paper 1 and 2 dollar/pound notes in favor of 1 and 2 dollar/pound coins with no big back lash.
The name is LEE!
JH
Proof Buffalo Registry Set
Capped Bust Quarters Registry Set
Proof Walking Liberty Halves Registry Set
<< <i>
Take away the paper and the need for a 1 dollar denomination still exists though. Both Canada and Great Britain eliminated the paper 1 and 2 dollar/pound notes in favor of 1 and 2 dollar/pound coins with no big back lash. >>
Woud the general populace use a dollar coin if that was their only choice? Yes, probably so. But, making such a choice belongs to them not the mint. It shouldn't be forced upon them.
<< <i>
<< <i>
Take away the paper and the need for a 1 dollar denomination still exists though. Both Canada and Great Britain eliminated the paper 1 and 2 dollar/pound notes in favor of 1 and 2 dollar/pound coins with no big back lash. >>
Woud the general populace use a dollar coin if that was their only choice? Yes, probably so. But, making such a choice belongs to them not the mint. It shouldn't be forced upon them. >>
Thats really funny since most folks don't really care as long as it spends.
The name is LEE!
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Did the U.S. Mint grossly overproduce the 2001 Golden Dollars featuring Sacagawea??? >>
The first one produced was one too many. The American public does NOT WANT A DOLLAR COIN!
Edit to add: Sorry about the yelling, but it seems to take that for many people on the boards (as well as the Congress/mint) to hear. >>
As long as there's a paper buck to use, your absolutely right.
Take away the paper and the need for a 1 dollar denomination still exists though. Both Canada and Great Britain eliminated the paper 1 and 2 dollar/pound notes in favor of 1 and 2 dollar/pound coins with no big back lash. >>
That's not entirely accurate , Gt Britain is comprised of 4 countries and England wanted the pound note gone. Scotland still produces and uses the pound note while also using the English pound coins. I don't know about Ireland or if they still have the pound (punt) note and Wales certainly followed suit with England.
The Scots did not accept it and that could happen in the US too , some states might accept the demise of the $1 note and others not.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
Take away the paper and the need for a 1 dollar denomination still exists though. Both Canada and Great Britain eliminated the paper 1 and 2 dollar/pound notes in favor of 1 and 2 dollar/pound coins with no big back lash. >>
Woud the general populace use a dollar coin if that was their only choice? Yes, probably so. But, making such a choice belongs to them not the mint. It shouldn't be forced upon them. >>
Thats really funny since most folks don't really care as long as it spends.
They obviously do care since they have been making the conscious choice to use paper for the entire time that both have been available. If they truly didn't care one way or the other then dollar coins would circulate rather than sit around in vaults.
<< <i>If it's not forced it will never happen. We all know the country isn't going to come to an end if the dollar bill is phased out. I say force it on us! >>
...chances are better people will use their plastic.
<< <i>
<< <i>If it's not forced it will never happen. We all know the country isn't going to come to an end if the dollar bill is phased out. I say force it on us! >>
...chances are better people will use their plastic.
An excellent point and probably already has lots to do with why new coinage doesnt seem to circulate. I always wonder if plastic isnt the reason a lot of people rarely see the new quarters and smaller change as well,ive not experienced a shortage of any of them except the 09 D nickels.
It's not too many dollar coins being issued. It's too many pennies and too many
dollar bills.
Get rid of the penny, the nickel, and the paper. Make an aluminum 5c piece. This
isn't rocket science.
<< <i>
Woud the general populace use a dollar coin if that was their only choice? Yes, probably so. But, making such a choice belongs to them not the mint. It shouldn't be forced upon them. >>
This choice isn't being made by the people. It is being made by the banks who
refuse to issue the coins.
Frankly, if people are going to be making such stupid choices as using a rag dollar
that spreads disease and wastes resources then the choice should be removed
from them and made by someone else.
But the fact is we haven't had a choice. I've spent every single dollar coin I've
ever recieved but the banks don't issue them.
<< <i>My theory is that they are stockpiling dollar coins in anticipation of the inevitable demise of the paper dollar. >>
an interesting note to that is the metal content of the current $1 coinage is worth only 7.8 cents. Much more than the paper ones are worth, but much less than the face value.
the vast majority of the american public obviously prefers the paper dollar to the coin, it makes no sense to waste billions of dollars minting coins only to have them sit in vaults, it would make much more sense to produce a dollar bill that lasts longer. probably would cost a small fraction of the billions of "golden dollars" that no one uses. and lets cut production of the penny in half, there will still be too many of them but this would effectively cut in half the losses to the mint (and thus the taxpayer) if the mint never makes another penny, ther will still be an overabundance for the next 100 years.
TD
<< <i>I have no trouble spending dollar coins, but the merchants never give them back out in change. They just go straight back to the bank in the deposit.
TD >>
I always at register and if I see some I always ask for them and then check em out....usually use them for parking in NYC or roll em and deposit them.
<< <i>My theory is that they are stockpiling dollar coins in anticipation of the inevitable demise of the paper dollar. >>
I hope you are right.
Circulation is much, much more than simply what the public uses. Its more about what banks and merchants use since payroll is typically done with either a "paycheck" or "payroll transfer". Checks get deposited and cash gets withdrawn from the largest down to the smallest denomination. Then the money gets spent.
ATM machines issue $20 bills and on rare occasions $10 bills for folks that want to carry cash.
Bills then get spent at some local establishment or merchant who issues change back to the customer for their purchase. Occasionally a customer will ask for 4 quarters or 8 quarters (for whatever reason) instead of dollar bills but other than that, folks just insure that they've received the "correct" amount of change before leaving the cashier.
Eliminating the dollar bill and replacing it with a coin changes nothing within the above money flow. Nothing. The fact of the matter is that the public doesn't use them simply because "they aren't there".
Since merchants don't order them for use (no point in confusing them folks issuing change now is there?) there's no spot for them in the register. Any coins that are received as payment, get sent back to the bank who in return sends them back to the Federal System.
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Too many coins to carry? Sure, turn em in for bigger bills just like you do when you have 28 one's or 18 five's or a "pocket full of quarters".
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Production cost factor? 7.8 cents to produce the coin but you only have to produce it once every 30 years vs replacing a bill once every 18 months.
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<< <i>That's not entirely accurate , Gt Britain is comprised of 4 countries and England wanted the pound note gone. Scotland still produces and uses the pound note while also using the English pound coins. I don't know about Ireland or if they still have the pound (punt) note and Wales certainly followed suit with England. >>
I was in Scotland in December and saw not one single 1 pound Scottish note. Not one. Being a money collector, I definitely looked.
A search for Scottish One Pound note on the Net will get you to this page which states that yes they produce a one pound note but it also states: "It is the only UK bank still with the low denomination one pound note in circulation - though it has been largely been superseded by the one pound coin issued by the Mint." (Looks like Ireland dropped the pound note as well.)
Another Page (from the same domain) notes that: "Scottish banks issue 5,10 and 20 pound notes. They also issue large denomination 50 and 100 pound notes but tourists are best to avoid these. There are also a few Royal Bank of Scotland one pound notes still in use."
I'm of the opinion that a transistion from one dollar notes to one dollar coins "might" casue some confusion but it would be short lived and the transition would be successful after only a couple of years.
Other countries have done it successfully without their economies collapsing due to "public rejection" so it's time that this country makes the move instead of continuing to produce both.
I'm also of the opinion that since there is multiple "billions" of one dollar notes currently circulating, you can't just pull the plug without having that transition coinage ready to replace all those notes.
The name is LEE!
The first one produced was one too many. The American public does NOT WANT A DOLLAR COIN!
Edit to add: Sorry about the yelling, but it seems to take that for many people on the boards (as well as the Congress/mint) to hear.
Agree, 100%.
'm quite happy with the paper dollar. Saying the dollar coin would circulate if only we forced people to use it by getting of the paper dollar is like saying that people would all ride buses if only we'd get rid of cars. Obviously the public wants little to do with dollar coins. I've lived long enough to see the Mint's attempts to foist Ikes, SBAs, Sackies, Native Americans and Presidentials upon an unwilling public. Only a moron would go thru 5 failures in a row and still not get the message.
Agree, 100%.
I also think that the arguments about cost savings of switching from paper bills to coins fail to fully account for the environmental impact of mining the metals used, the fuel and labor costs of transporting coins versus paper bills -- (compare the weight of $2,000 in sacs to $2,000 in dollar bills sometime), etc.
The arguments about the efficiency or lifespan of one versus the other are largely rendered moot, as more and more transactions are handled with plastic.