Break it down, Hammer time!!! 1921 Peace

mbogoman · February 9, 2011 8:40AM

I've been hunting for a well struck high relief 1921 Peace for my dollar type set and I think I've found it. Just plucked it off Ebay a few days ago and probably overpaid, but like I said, I've been looking for it for a while. It's raw, but it's absolutely HAMMERED, both obverse and reverse! I'm not sure where it will grade - it could go anywhere from 58 to 64. The rev has more dings than the obv, including a couple under the eagle's eye and some chatter around the word "DOLLAR". The obv is pretty clean with a small, intact lamination under the "T" in Trust. Oh, and with the help of the experts on this board, we've identified the VAM - it's "VAM-1E2".

Your opinions are welcome.

JupitarCoins · February 9, 2011 8:51AM

Wow very nice strike. Like you said its hammered!!!

AUandAG · February 9, 2011 8:52AM

I believe it's a 1E2 variety.

bob

amiller · February 9, 2011 8:55AM

Nice grab. I'm always envious of nicely struck 21's and long ago gave up looking for them raw.

I am curious, what am I seeing at the top of the ray through the first L in DOLLAR, and also below the first T in TRUST?

UtahCoin · February 9, 2011 8:57AM

That is a NICE strike!

jesbroken · February 9, 2011 9:00AM

Nicest strike on a 21 that I have seen on both the obverse and reverse. Great pickup and thanks for sharing. I believe Bob is correct and the Vam-1E2 is right.
Best of luck on the grade. Keep us posted.
Jim

bronzemat · February 9, 2011 9:01AM

Real nice pickup, congrats.

mbogoman · February 9, 2011 9:04AM

<< I am curious, what am I seeing at the top of the ray through the first L in DOLLAR, and also below the first T in TRUST? >>

That's a ding on the ray and below the T in Trust is an intact lamination.

amiller · February 9, 2011 9:14AM

Very nice. If you send it in don't worry about the grade it receives, it is a winner strike and nicer than most in ANY grade!

magikbilly · February 9, 2011 9:18AM

Good heavens! That is nasty! Awesome strike! The Obv. fields look sooo concave

Thanks,
Eric

SanctionII · February 9, 2011 9:26AM

Great looking coin.

What a relief,..................... to see a coin made with such a high quality "relief",..................... as opposed to the coins made by the mint today.

rld14 · February 9, 2011 9:34AM

QuarterCollector · February 9, 2011 9:34AM

Outstanding strike. It looks like the eagle is dawning his war paint.

Tom

magikbilly · February 9, 2011 9:40AM

I can't get over the deep concave Obv. It is like a jacuzzi for small mouse! Yes, today's coinage is a liiiitle lacking

Looking at the spread of the rays on the Rev., for some I never realized how large that sun would be if visible!

Eric

Broadstruck · February 9, 2011 9:57AM

The strike is close to what the matte proof 1921's look like.

Your example doesn't seem to have original surfaces.

Make sure you compare it to other full strikes as the one that RWB posted a few weeks ago.

As there have been a few raw examples on EBay in the last 2 years that have been tooled in the hair region to gain heavy full strike bidding action.

magikbilly · February 9, 2011 10:45AM

<< The strike is close to what the matte proof 1921's look like.

Your example doesn't seem to have original surfaces.

Make sure you compare it to other full strikes as the one that RWB posted a few weeks ago.

As there have been a few raw examples on EBay in the last 2 years that have been tooled in the hair region to gain heavy full strike bidding action. >>

I agree with both observations. Surfaces weird (did not think tooling though, I thought overdip, but this is not my series) and near Pr strike with lovely rims.

Best,
Eric

Broadstruck · February 9, 2011 10:48AM

<< I agree with both observations. Surfaces weird (did not think tooling though, I thought overdip, but this is not my series) and near Pr strike with lovely rims. >>

Not over dipped as it has a cleaned with baking soda dullness.

TomB · February 9, 2011 10:50AM

My first impression was high end AU, altered surfaces, terrific strike...but I think I like the coin very much.

AnkurJ · February 9, 2011 10:58AM

I wouldnt be surprised if it came back cleaned.

magikbilly · February 9, 2011 10:59AM

<< 

<< I agree with both observations. Surfaces weird (did not think tooling though, I thought overdip, but this is not my series) and near Pr strike with lovely rims. >>

Not over dipped as it has a cleaned with baking soda dullness. >>

Yes, I can see that now. I was just drooling over the design's increased beauty with this kind strike. I did notice the wear but I was really captivated by just the strike.

Thanks!

Eric

Coinosaurus · February 9, 2011 11:07AM

I don't like it. The bottoms of the digits are mushy.

You should have held out for a better struck one

mbogoman · February 9, 2011 12:37PM

<< <> Not over dipped as it has a cleaned with baking soda dullness. >>

Both are possible, I suppose. I don't think it has been tooled, however the cleaning comments could hold water. It does have an overall dull appearance, but has no hairline evidence of cleaning. It shimmers under light but does not cartwheel. It could have been dipped a few times too many. My first impression when I got it in hand was that it was not mint state, but having never seen an example from fresh dies, I wasn't clear how the lower luster high reliefs should look. The details are as sharp as I have encountered and the reeding is sharp and clean all the way around. It may very well end up a Gen 92, but it still is as hammered as they come!

In any case, I posted the pics to get other, more informed opinions and I appreciate all of your comments, positive and negative.

stealer · February 9, 2011 1:18PM

What's going on with the eagle's cheek? That isn't part of the vam is it?

Is it damage?

roadrunner · February 9, 2011 1:35PM

<< My first impression was high end AU, altered surfaces, terrific strike...but I think I like the coin very much. >>

Not 100% sure it would come back other than genuine.

roadrunner

lkeigwin · February 9, 2011 1:38PM

Very nice! Daniel Carr does great work, doesn't he?
Lance.

Broadstruck · February 9, 2011 1:39PM

<< What's going on with the eagle's cheek? That isn't part of the vam is it?

Is it damage? >>

Not damage as it's hit from another coins reeded edge, which is want happened when the mint tossed big coins in big bags.

metalmeister · February 9, 2011 2:05PM

Great strike indeed!

stealer · February 9, 2011 2:21PM

<< 

<< What's going on with the eagle's cheek? That isn't part of the vam is it?

Is it damage? >>

Not damage as it's hit from another coins reeded edge, which is want happened when the mint tossed big coins in big bags. >>

But doesn't that still count as damage? At least docked a few grades right? Not trying to downplay the coin, it's nice, I'm just trying to learn how grading goes as far as reeding marks.

DUIGUY · February 9, 2011 4:32PM

<< That is a NICE strike!

>>

RWB · February 10, 2011 12:05AM

Nicely struck coin. Certainly among the better examples regardless of wear or anything else. Eagle is good and has most fullness above right leg (chronically weak on 1921s). In my opinion, it is much nicer than some flat struck thing in a MS-65 holder.

Areas of weakness:
Obv – base of numerals near rim; ends of rays between B and E flat; highest hair points not fully rounded.
Rev – Upper surfaces of USA not fully rounded and flat toward rim.

IrishMikey · February 10, 2011 12:13AM

I know we are talking about the strike on a coin that typically comes weak, but for my
money, give me one with flashy original luster and an average strike. I have always
been a "luster guppy!"

Broadstruck · February 10, 2011 12:54AM

<< But doesn't that still count as damage? At least docked a few grades right? Not trying to downplay the coin, it's nice, I'm just trying to learn how grading goes as far as reeding marks. >>

It's not post mint damage and might cost a coin something grading wise.

Yet you need to realize that the pics posted are the coin blown up to the size of a dinner plate as in hand at real scale the hits are not as offensive.

leothelyon · February 10, 2011 1:10AM

A perfect example of a lower grade coin having more value than an upper grade with a less than full strike.

I've been searching for such a coin for years!

Leo

Edited to ask; Did the seller tell you how long he had it or how he obtained it? I think you were there at the right time in a very short span of time when the seller received it himself.

Connecticoin · February 10, 2011 1:24AM

Nicely struck, but the coin appears to have been messed with -- no original skin, and what looks like a lot of hairlines.

leothelyon · February 10, 2011 1:31AM

My guess is, this was an early morning purchase, a coin that was obtain from a local dealer before the opening of the show.

Nicely struck, but the coin appears to have been messed with -- no original skin, and what looks like a lot of hairlines.

But for this date with it's strike, such possible problems are forgiven a little more than your average struck coin?

Leo

mbogoman · February 10, 2011 2:00AM

<< Nicely struck, but the coin appears to have been messed with -- no original skin, and what looks like a lot of hairlines. >>

There are no hairlines, even under 10x magnification. However, it does have an overall dull appearance when compared to full luster coins. The photos were taken under diffused lighting to show the details better. I may try to take more photos under brighter light which could show the muted, "satiny" luster that is evident. I wish I had a good example of a graded, fully struck version to compare with. As I understand the issue of luster, the earlier states of the dies do not impart luster (or very little) on the coins. I think it is not uncommon among the well struck 1921 dollars. Still, if I were a betting man (and with the advantage of having the coin in hand), I would lean towards the coin having taken a dip or two...

scottgardener · February 13, 2011 10:51AM

I think this is a spectacular find. Most 1921 Peace dollars have weakness in the hair around the ear because of the higher relief. This one is very crisp. I find that much more important than shiny luster, especially in a coin that looks so great in matte.

Break it down, Hammer time!!! 1921 Peace

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