D.Carr's restrikes have taken front seat, as noone bothered reporting this or this, yet one was listed in the actual coin section (the other in 'antiques'....which this is not either....check out the reverse disclaimer) . Boy, you haters/tattletales should really spread out all over ebay....there were only a few more than 1,600 of Daniel Carr's restrikes made....I'd bet there are WAY more real fakes/counterfeits, like the two I linked, without 'copy' on them (nah, no bet, it's FACT and we ALL know it).
<< <i>Bought for $150. Sold for $300. Out & Done. >>
Ah, yes... the bottom line. Methinks this is the main reason for this object's attraction. >>
Not exactly unique in the realm of coins now, is it?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>D.Carr's restrikes have taken front seat... >>
I'm curious, where did you get "restrikes" from? Even the website doesn't mention anything about restrikes! >>
I think his hate is causing him to misquote Mr. Carr.
Numismatist. 54 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Also won the PNG's Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
<< <i>D.Carr's restrikes have taken front seat... >>
I'm curious, where did you get "restrikes" from? Even the website doesn't mention anything about restrikes! >>
I think his hate is causing him to misquote Mr. Carr. >>
Oh, I'm so sorry to have used 'restrike' when I should have said 'overstrike'. Also, my 'hate' is keyed only to those that think this is something that needs to be reported to ebay (hence my comment 'tattletale'), even though there is a totally seperate category where they ARE listed in accordance with ebay. There are NO existing '64-D Peace Dollars, so it IS a fantasy 'overstrike' (so as not to step over that fragile line you that oppose these pieces have so gingerly drawn in the sand).
Where are all the 'tattletales' in response to the blatant fraudulently listed coin I linked to? I'll tell you where....they are just sitting on the Peace Dollar listings just waiting to play 'hall monitor'.
I honestly think those that are reporting them are just ticked they didn't get in so they could double, triple or quadruple their initial buy price.......but we all know that you buy something in the numismatic/exonumic categories to COLLECT, not to re-sell (heaven forbid someone makes a PROFIT). Oh, wait....there are those that DO just that.......most are called dealers. You people that are opposed to these...I'd love to know how many have a Henning nickel....something specifically made to deceive and be used as real money. These were NOT made for that purpose.
<< <i>I honestly think those that are reporting them are just ticked they didn't get in so they could double, triple or quadruple their initial buy price... >>
What you think is NOT accurate! No need to use your stomach to measure people.
<< <i>I honestly think those that are reporting them are just ticked they didn't get in so they could double, triple or quadruple their initial buy price... >>
What you think is NOT accurate! No need to use your stomach to measure people. >>
That is your opinion....you are entitled to it. Though, personally, I don't need to use my stomach to measure people.
it's all about the love ............the love of collecting , the love of Silver Dollars , the love of each other .
I was one of the under bidders on a cool toned '78-S Dollar Morgan in MS65 tonight @ 420$ ; I would have never thought of bidding on a Dollar before collecting the D.Carr Peace Dollars !
I see more and more of them appearing on eBay with spirited bidding , despite potential bidders being chastised here on the boards by some .
I see the battle as over ; D.Carr was never arrested, the coins were sold out ...the demand was strong .
There is a thriving aftermarket , seems anyone desiring to sell is easily doubling their money .
The controversy has made the Fantasy Dollars one of the most talked about coins in numismatic circles , and D.Carr will undoubtedly be pressing some new creations very soon .
Not only is the battle over , but one side was soundly defeated........thrashed .., whooped ., stomped on all fronts .
So lets be good loser's , and remember it's not if you win or loose - but it's how you play the game .
Up until now , the negative side has attempted to use every dirty trick in the book ......, whats say it's time to admit the better men won and give credit where credit is due,
Anytime Mr. Carr wishes to declare himself winner he can always send one of the 1964-D's to the Secret Service and ask for their opinion of it. They will not hear about them from me, but until their shoe drops nothing is decided. TD
Numismatist. 54 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Also won the PNG's Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
<< <i>Hey Paulpaw, I don't have a dog in this fight in fact don't really care. But what measure are using to determine the winner? Who is the winner in all this?
Potential winners: 1) D Carr for sure 2) flippers (those that have already flipped) 3) The buyers from the flippers? doubt it. 4) long term holders? not sure, maybe but doubt it. 5) those who actually want the coin because they like it.
To me it seems more like the beany baby frenzy 20 years ago, once all the hype is gone I think (and don't care) the prices will plummet. If I bought to flip, now is the time to flip, otherwise just be happy with the coin and keep it. >>
You've been proved correct tonight on the "will these get whacked" thread , both auctions ended with nothing sold.
Wow, I love this coin because I like the coin and it is beautiful. I am not trying to flip it and mine not for sale at 3x what I bought them for. I think a lot of other buyers have similar sentiment.
Love that Milled British (1830-1960) Well, just Love coins, period.
<< <i>Not only is the battle over , but one side was soundly defeated........thrashed .., whooped ., stomped on all fronts .
So lets be good loser's , and remember it's not if you win or loose - but it's how you play the game .
Up until now , the negative side has attempted to use every dirty trick in the book ......, whats say it's time to admit the better men won and give credit where credit is due, >>
Boggs notes, I think, are incomplete and not nearly as believable as this Carr item. To me it does not look real and I know when they were minted - but should one get into "circulation"...to a "normal" person they could easily appear as just another silver dollar. Uh...anyway - the drawings are not used as cash - I think he is letting people decide if they want to take his drawing or not as part of some larger statement, performance or comment. I was asking about the issue of the genuine de Francisci Peace design and who owns the right to allow its alteration etc., if anyone.
Best wishes, Eric >>
If what you're asking is, are the designs created by U.S. Mint sculptors for use on U.S. Mint coinage, copyrighted; then the answer is no they are not.
Evidence they are not and can be used by anyone, the gold plated Buffaloes selling for $19.95 on t.v., which feature the design created by U.S. Mint sculptor James Earle Fraser for the Buffalo nickel. >>
Thank you for taking the time to answer my question. Did not think of that example. I do not watch TV really.
All the seller has to do is list for 1 day and/or add a buy it now. Usually takes longer than that for the ebay police to take action. Once auction is completed both parties may still get an email from ebay, but the transaction can still be honored by the seller if the buyer wants the item.
"A car is a tool that takes you from one place to another. Everything beyond that is a payment for other people's perception of you."
"If what you're asking is, are the designs created by U.S. Mint sculptors for use on U.S. Mint coinage, copyrighted; then the answer is no they are not.
Evidence they are not and can be used by anyone, the gold plated Buffaloes selling for $19.95 on t.v., which feature the design created by U.S. Mint sculptor James Earle Fraser for the Buffalo nickel. "
Actually, some designs are in fact copyrighted from I can see: Link
<< <i>"If what you're asking is, are the designs created by U.S. Mint sculptors for use on U.S. Mint coinage, copyrighted; then the answer is no they are not.
Evidence they are not and can be used by anyone, the gold plated Buffaloes selling for $19.95 on t.v., which feature the design created by U.S. Mint sculptor James Earle Fraser for the Buffalo nickel. "
Actually, some designs are in fact copyrighted from I can see: Link
Best, Eric >>
I think the older designs are not under copyright protection, but all the newer ones are. Keep in mind that the federal government cannot "own" a copyright of anything but it can hold copyrights and enforce them just as if they did own them.
<< <i>"If what you're asking is, are the designs created by U.S. Mint sculptors for use on U.S. Mint coinage, copyrighted; then the answer is no they are not.
Evidence they are not and can be used by anyone, the gold plated Buffaloes selling for $19.95 on t.v., which feature the design created by U.S. Mint sculptor James Earle Fraser for the Buffalo nickel. "
Actually, some designs are in fact copyrighted from I can see: Link
Best, Eric >>
I think the older designs are not under copyright protection, but all the newer ones are. Keep in mind that the federal government cannot "own" a copyright of anything but it can hold copyrights and enforce them just as if they did own them. >>
In the link posted by the OP, it does clearly state, the Mint "may" own copyrights. Not that it does or must.
<< <i>Some people find their enjoyment in their profits; others find their enjoyment in their hobby... I'm with the latter. >>
And some people enjoy ratting out other people's Ebay listings......these self appointed Ebay police must live empty lives.
(PS: I am not referring to the person quoted)
Advanced collector of BREWERIANA. Early beer advertising (beer cans, tap knobs, foam scrapers, trays, tin signs, lithos, paper, etc)....My first love...U.S. COINS!
<< <i>I think the older designs are not under copyright protection, but all the newer ones are. Keep in mind that the federal government cannot "own" a copyright of anything but it can hold copyrights and enforce them just as if they did own them. >>
Given the government's history of exempting itself from laws it passes on the rest of us, I wouldn't be sure they couldn't come back and enforce a "copyright" on a century-old (or older) design.
<< <i>Maybe the detractors should show the same restraint as the government or Secret Service until these are proven to be illegal in this form. But these people seem more intent in being judge and jury, not willing to wait for any legal ruling, if one will even be forthcoming. >>
Carr can pick up some additional cash by suing some of these people who claim he has committed a crime.
Frank Provasek - PCGS Authorized Dealer, Life Member ANA, Member TNA. www.frankcoins.com
<< <i>I think the comment about eBay worried about the HPA is funny. How long would it take them to prove the Chinese counterfeiters are not complying with the HPA? These guys are doing more damage to our hobby than Dan ever will. If people are worried about the guys hiding real 64 D Peace dollars, get them to bring them out and fight the fight or give it a rest. IMHO. >>
The HPA does not apply to sellers outside the US, any more than French laws that you can't sell Nazi stuff apply to American sellers. The only risk is that customs might seize the items, or that the Federal Trade Commission will file civil charges for "deceptive trade practices" which they will not do unless the same US seller is dealing in multi million dollar quantities. In other words, there is no enforcement at all for these eBay sellers in China. That's why eBay needs to be lobbied and shamed into banning ALL reproduction coins. I'd accept losing the Gallery Mint stuff in exchange for knowing that only real coins are allowed to be sold on eBay.
Frank Provasek - PCGS Authorized Dealer, Life Member ANA, Member TNA. www.frankcoins.com
<< Maybe the detractors should show the same restraint as the government or Secret Service until these are proven to be illegal in this form. But these people seem more intent in being judge and jury, not willing to wait for any legal ruling, if one will even be forthcoming. >>
Shouldn't that be "...until proven TO this Forum?" I didn't know "they listen to us" and I think we've demonstrated as an entity that we have been unable to decide, well - some of us, what the status of this thing is anyway to where we can be less than civil. Some asked reasonable, salient question and were chided. I don't like the thing myself and have kept my comments to a minimum, but I would hope people have better things to do and the S.S. either does not care or is well aware from just the questions he asked to the appropriate people in preparation for the implementation of this scheme. I have no interest in collecting fantasy things, or paying premiums, or riding bandwagons or flipping to make money off controversy or anything else. That is not my business and not concern. Not me - that's good enough for me. A few of you know, through PM, that I have much better things to do. I hope you all do. I wish the same were true of some - if anyone has actually called the S.S. I'd suggest you think of better things to do. It is not me being naive, it is me thinking, hoping, no one could be so.....whatever as to waste valuable personal time on such an issue - important thing yes, but this will be a blip in years to come. I hope. It is revenue generating fantasy and that's cool I guess - he did his research and played by enough rules to keep it legit apparently. As I don't own or want one I don't care...its impact on the hobby is something that will play out slower than faster, quick flips aside. I will say that I have rarely seen people flip things they really love so fast - reveals motive TO ME, IMHO - I still don't care. It wasn't a blip for me when new. Those that may make such reports or have - I wish I had time to worry about things like this beyond posting a few words. I think this the only thread I have even commented in. Yes, people have different opinions and concerns - Hobby Protection Act and all that. As someone who thinks they are not good looking rounds, who thinks 'copy" might have been employed, who thinks the borrowed design is not quite accurate and the whole thing tacky and a transparent marketing scheme (and who has no dog in this fight and has even less interest in any more of this) - I say leave Dan Carr, his "interesting" round and this topic ALONE already? In 41 years I have learned that many things work themselves out - sometimes correctly too. What that end is I really don't know and I don't care. The hobby is big enough to eventually work this out if not already then in time. It has survived all kinds of stuff. Self policing? Where has that notion got up but new strict rules here.
TO ME, this is like someone taking scrap steel and rusting it in a bucket (don't get any ideas Dan ; I know you have a rust bucket - just kidding- just kidding!) and then selling it because it looks like a fragment of the Lusitania. Not everyone can afford $1000 for a bit of rust with documentation from the only salvage operation in 1982. If someone feel closer to the wreck by owning a bit of rusted god knows what that's fine with me. I have what I deem collectible to me and that's what matters to me. Others have other priorities.
The rest of the related issues I let others deal with. I have collecting to do. Beyond the comment by Mr. Hall - " I think there's a better than 50% chance that a few 1964 Peace dollars exist. However, I have never heard of anyone who has actually seen one and I, like you, find it hard to believe that one hasn't turned up, or at least been covertly shown to a few people." - that enough for me. His opinions seems to carry weight here and rightly so. Moving forward now....
Best to all, malice to none and with nothing further to say, Eric
I need help on this coin my brother just sent. On the back it has intials sm It does not say copy anywhere on this coin and was made in 1986? on the back it does say silver trade unit and has the eagle. thanks for any info
<< <i>I need help on this coin my brother just sent. On the back it has intials sm It does not say copy anywhere on this coin and was made in 1986? on the back it does say silver trade unit and has the eagle. thanks for any info >>
Bullion medallion. Not a coin. Likely listed in Unusual World Coins.
first thanks edix2001 for the information. much better picture so these are worth about melt value? He sent me about 15 of these and the small squares and wondering if its better to put them up on ebay or take to my local b/m to get rid of. thanks again
<< <i> The HPA does not apply to sellers outside the US, >>
Yes it does apply if the counterfeit items are going to be sold in and/or imported into the U.S.
Title 15, Chapter 48 § 2101 (b) clearly states that the manufacture in, or the importation into, the United States for introduction into, or distribution in commerce any imitation numismatic which is not plainly and permanently marked “copy”, is unlawful and is an unfair or deceptive act or practice in commerce under the Federal Trade Commission Act.
first thanks edix2001 for the information. much better picture so these are worth about melt value? He sent me about 15 of these and the small squares and wondering if its better to put them up on ebay or take to my local b/m to get rid of. thanks again >>
Yes, it is ine troy ounce of fine silver, worth melt. Listed in Unusual World Coins under U.S. as X#130.
<< <i>I think the comment about eBay worried about the HPA is funny. How long would it take them to prove the Chinese counterfeiters are not complying with the HPA? These guys are doing more damage to our hobby than Dan ever will. If people are worried about the guys hiding real 64 D Peace dollars, get them to bring them out and fight the fight or give it a rest. IMHO. >>
The HPA does not apply to sellers outside the US, any more than French laws that you can't sell Nazi stuff apply to American sellers. The only risk is that customs might seize the items, or that the Federal Trade Commission will file civil charges for "deceptive trade practices" which they will not do unless the same US seller is dealing in multi million dollar quantities. In other words, there is no enforcement at all for these eBay sellers in China. That's why eBay needs to be lobbied and shamed into banning ALL reproduction coins. I'd accept losing the Gallery Mint stuff in exchange for knowing that only real coins are allowed to be sold on eBay. >>
Well said.
Numismatist. 54 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Also won the PNG's Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
<< <i>Maybe the detractors should show the same restraint as the government or Secret Service until these are proven to be illegal in this form. But these people seem more intent in being judge and jury, not willing to wait for any legal ruling, if one will even be forthcoming. >>
Carr can pick up some additional cash by suing some of these people who claim he has committed a crime. >>
Hey, that's one way to force the Secret Service to finally take notice of the question!
Numismatist. 54 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Also won the PNG's Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
The HPA does not apply to sellers outside the US, >>
Well said. >>
Too bad the quoted statement of Frank's is completely inaccurate. >>
Based on the language in the HPA, itself, I would have to agree:
"Sec. 304.3 Applicability.
Any person engaged in the manufacturing, or importation into the United States for introduction into or distribution in commerce, of imitation political or imitation numismatic items shall be subject to the requirements of the Act and the regulations promulgated thereunder."
<< <i>Maybe they removed them cause they aren't real coins?
Why would you want to know who is reporting them? Gonna go after em and make em stop? >>
They are real coins just as real as hobo nickels and love tokens are. Yes, people making false reports to end other people's auctions can be held responsible for economic losses and damage to the reputation of the seller. >>
Unless you know specifically, what the reports were, you can't possibly know that they were false. >>
I'll be more than happy to divulge what I reported the items for:
They are in violation of the HPA, and are therefore subject to the regulations of the HPA, as there are no known 1964D Peace dollars ever released by the United States Mint. As such, I believe these items should be listed in the COPY or REPLICA section of eBay and the listings should clearly state that these are genuine U.S. Mint products in which the date and mint mark have been altered to a non-existent date and mint mark, as well as the surface condition has been altered to reveal a matte finish.
<< <i>Maybe they removed them cause they aren't real coins?
Why would you want to know who is reporting them? Gonna go after em and make em stop? >>
They are real coins just as real as hobo nickels and love tokens are. Yes, people making false reports to end other people's auctions can be held responsible for economic losses and damage to the reputation of the seller. >>
Unless you know specifically, what the reports were, you can't possibly know that they were false. >>
I'll be more than happy to divulge what I reported the items for:
They are in violation of the HPA, and are therefore subject to the regulations of the HPA, as there are no known 1964D Peace dollars ever released by the United States Mint. As such, I believe these items should be listed in the COPY or REPLICA section of eBay and the listings should clearly state that these are genuine U.S. Mint products in which the date and mint mark have been altered to a non-existent date and mint mark, as well as the surface condition has been altered to reveal a matte finish.
Obviously, eBay agreed and removed the listings. >>
Obviously, at this point I think I'll yawn and maybe even take a nap.
more than likely someone right here doing you a favor by censoring what you are allowed to bid on. seems to me i remember seeing some posts of yours where you advocate doing the very same thing ... kharma
regardless of how many posts I have, I don't consider myself an "expert" at anything
RRich2004, thank you for censoring what people buy on ebay. thank you for protecting people from buying whatever they feel like buying. thank you for taking the time to get auctions canceled that you have no interest in bidding on, and making sure no one else does either. thank you
regardless of how many posts I have, I don't consider myself an "expert" at anything
Comments
Russ, NCNE
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>D.Carr's restrikes have taken front seat... >>
I'm curious, where did you get "restrikes" from? Even the website doesn't mention anything about restrikes!
<< <i>
<< <i>Bought for $150. Sold for $300. Out & Done.
Ah, yes... the bottom line. Methinks this is the main reason for this object's attraction. >>
Not exactly unique in the realm of coins now, is it?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>D.Carr's restrikes have taken front seat... >>
I'm curious, where did you get "restrikes" from? Even the website doesn't mention anything about restrikes! >>
I think his hate is causing him to misquote Mr. Carr.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>D.Carr's restrikes have taken front seat... >>
I'm curious, where did you get "restrikes" from? Even the website doesn't mention anything about restrikes! >>
I think his hate is causing him to misquote Mr. Carr. >>
Oh, I'm so sorry to have used 'restrike' when I should have said 'overstrike'. Also, my 'hate' is keyed only to those that think this is something that needs to be reported to ebay (hence my comment 'tattletale'), even though there is a totally seperate category where they ARE listed in accordance with ebay. There are NO existing '64-D Peace Dollars, so it IS a fantasy 'overstrike' (so as not to step over that fragile line you that oppose these pieces have so gingerly drawn in the sand).
Where are all the 'tattletales' in response to the blatant fraudulently listed coin I linked to? I'll tell you where....they are just sitting on the Peace Dollar listings just waiting to play 'hall monitor'.
I honestly think those that are reporting them are just ticked they didn't get in so they could double, triple or quadruple their initial buy price.......but we all know that you buy something in the numismatic/exonumic categories to COLLECT, not to re-sell (heaven forbid someone makes a PROFIT). Oh, wait....there are those that DO just that.......most are called dealers. You people that are opposed to these...I'd love to know how many have a Henning nickel....something specifically made to deceive and be used as real money. These were NOT made for that purpose.
<< <i>I honestly think those that are reporting them are just ticked they didn't get in so they could double, triple or quadruple their initial buy price... >>
What you think is NOT accurate! No need to use your stomach to measure people.
<< <i>
<< <i>I honestly think those that are reporting them are just ticked they didn't get in so they could double, triple or quadruple their initial buy price... >>
What you think is NOT accurate! No need to use your stomach to measure people. >>
That is your opinion....you are entitled to it. Though, personally, I don't need to use my stomach to measure people.
I was one of the under bidders on a cool toned '78-S Dollar Morgan in MS65 tonight @ 420$ ; I would have never thought of bidding on a Dollar before collecting the D.Carr Peace Dollars !
I see more and more of them appearing on eBay with spirited bidding , despite potential bidders being chastised here on the boards by some .
I see the battle as over ; D.Carr was never arrested, the coins were sold out ...the demand was strong .
There is a thriving aftermarket , seems anyone desiring to sell is easily doubling their money .
The controversy has made the Fantasy Dollars one of the most talked about coins in numismatic circles , and D.Carr will undoubtedly be pressing some new creations very soon .
Not only is the battle over , but one side was soundly defeated........thrashed .., whooped ., stomped on all fronts .
So lets be good loser's , and remember it's not if you win or loose - but it's how you play the game .
Up until now , the negative side has attempted to use every dirty trick in the book ......, whats say it's time to admit the better men won and give credit where credit is due,
a big pat on the back and a big
<< <i>Some people find their enjoyment in their profits; others find their enjoyment in their hobby... I'm with the latter. >>
You seem to find enjoyment in talking about people who enjoy the former.
They will not hear about them from me, but until their shoe drops nothing is decided.
TD
<< <i>Hey Paulpaw, I don't have a dog in this fight in fact don't really care. But what measure are using to determine the winner? Who is the winner
in all this?
Potential winners:
1) D Carr for sure
2) flippers (those that have already flipped)
3) The buyers from the flippers? doubt it.
4) long term holders? not sure, maybe but doubt it.
5) those who actually want the coin because they like it.
To me it seems more like the beany baby frenzy 20 years ago, once all the hype is gone I think (and don't care) the prices will plummet.
If I bought to flip, now is the time to flip, otherwise just be happy with the coin and keep it. >>
You've been proved correct tonight on the "will these get whacked" thread , both auctions ended with nothing sold.
Well, just Love coins, period.
<< <i>Not only is the battle over , but one side was soundly defeated........thrashed .., whooped ., stomped on all fronts .
So lets be good loser's , and remember it's not if you win or loose - but it's how you play the game .
Up until now , the negative side has attempted to use every dirty trick in the book ......, whats say it's time to admit the better men won and give credit where credit is due, >>
I think your conclusion is premature.
<< <i>
<< <i>Hi,
Boggs notes, I think, are incomplete and not nearly as believable as this Carr item. To me it does not look real and I know when they were minted - but should one get into "circulation"...to a "normal"
Best wishes,
Eric >>
If what you're asking is, are the designs created by U.S. Mint sculptors for use on U.S. Mint coinage, copyrighted; then the answer is no they are not.
Evidence they are not and can be used by anyone, the gold plated Buffaloes selling for $19.95 on t.v., which feature the design created by U.S. Mint sculptor James Earle Fraser for the Buffalo nickel. >>
Thank you for taking the time to answer my question. Did not think of that example. I do not watch TV really.
Best,
Eric
<< <i>
<< <i>Some people find their enjoyment in their profits; others find their enjoyment in their hobby... I'm with the latter. >>
You seem to find enjoyment in talking about people who enjoy the former.
It's disbelief and disappointment... I take no enjoyment. I understand greed, I just don't agree with it.
"A car is a tool that takes you from one place to another. Everything beyond that is a payment for other people's perception of you."
...........Those are the words of a winner
Evidence they are not and can be used by anyone, the gold plated Buffaloes selling for $19.95 on t.v., which feature the design created by U.S. Mint sculptor James Earle Fraser for the Buffalo nickel. "
Actually, some designs are in fact copyrighted from I can see: Link
Best,
Eric
<< <i>"If what you're asking is, are the designs created by U.S. Mint sculptors for use on U.S. Mint coinage, copyrighted; then the answer is no they are not.
Evidence they are not and can be used by anyone, the gold plated Buffaloes selling for $19.95 on t.v., which feature the design created by U.S. Mint sculptor James Earle Fraser for the Buffalo nickel. "
Actually, some designs are in fact copyrighted from I can see: Link
Best,
Eric >>
I think the older designs are not under copyright protection, but all the newer ones are. Keep in mind that the federal government cannot "own" a copyright of anything but it can hold copyrights and enforce them just as if they did own them.
<< <i>
<< <i>"If what you're asking is, are the designs created by U.S. Mint sculptors for use on U.S. Mint coinage, copyrighted; then the answer is no they are not.
Evidence they are not and can be used by anyone, the gold plated Buffaloes selling for $19.95 on t.v., which feature the design created by U.S. Mint sculptor James Earle Fraser for the Buffalo nickel. "
Actually, some designs are in fact copyrighted from I can see: Link
Best,
Eric >>
I think the older designs are not under copyright protection, but all the newer ones are. Keep in mind that the federal government cannot "own" a copyright of anything but it can hold copyrights and enforce them just as if they did own them. >>
In the link posted by the OP, it does clearly state, the Mint "may" own copyrights. Not that it does or must.
<< <i>Some people find their enjoyment in their profits; others find their enjoyment in their hobby... I'm with the latter. >>
And some people enjoy ratting out other people's Ebay listings......these self appointed Ebay police must live empty lives.
(PS: I am not referring to the person quoted)
<< <i>I think the older designs are not under copyright protection, but all the newer ones are. Keep in mind that the federal government cannot "own" a copyright of anything but it can hold copyrights and enforce them just as if they did own them. >>
Given the government's history of exempting itself from laws it passes on the rest of us, I wouldn't be sure they couldn't come back and enforce a "copyright" on a century-old (or older) design.
<< <i>Maybe the detractors should show the same restraint as the government or Secret Service until these are proven to be illegal in this form. But these people seem more intent in being judge and jury, not willing to wait for any legal ruling, if one will even be forthcoming. >>
Carr can pick up some additional cash by suing some of these people who claim he has committed a crime.
<< <i>I think the comment about eBay worried about the HPA is funny. How long would it take them to prove the Chinese counterfeiters are not complying with the HPA? These guys are doing more damage to our hobby than Dan ever will. If people are worried about the guys hiding real 64 D Peace dollars, get them to bring them out and fight the fight or give it a rest. IMHO. >>
The HPA does not apply to sellers outside the US, any more than French laws that you can't sell Nazi stuff apply to American sellers. The only risk is that customs might seize the items, or that the Federal Trade Commission will file civil charges for "deceptive trade practices" which they will not do unless the same US seller is dealing in multi million dollar quantities. In other words, there is no enforcement at all for these eBay sellers in China. That's why eBay needs to be lobbied and shamed into banning ALL reproduction coins. I'd accept losing the Gallery Mint stuff in exchange for knowing that only real coins are allowed to be sold on eBay.
Shouldn't that be "...until proven TO this Forum?" I didn't know "they listen to us" and I think we've demonstrated as an entity that we have been unable to decide, well - some of us, what the status of this thing is anyway to where we can be less than civil. Some asked reasonable, salient question and were chided. I don't like the thing myself and have kept my comments to a minimum, but I would hope people have better things to do and the S.S. either does not care or is well aware from just the questions he asked to the appropriate people in preparation for the implementation of this scheme. I have no interest in collecting fantasy things, or paying premiums, or riding bandwagons or flipping to make money off controversy or anything else. That is not my business and not concern. Not me - that's good enough for me. A few of you know, through PM, that I have much better things to do. I hope you all do. I wish the same were true of some - if anyone has actually called the S.S. I'd suggest you think of better things to do. It is not me being naive, it is me thinking, hoping, no one could be so.....whatever as to waste valuable personal time on such an issue - important thing yes, but this will be a blip in years to come. I hope. It is revenue generating fantasy and that's cool I guess - he did his research and played by enough rules to keep it legit apparently. As I don't own or want one I don't care...its impact on the hobby is something that will play out slower than faster, quick flips aside. I will say that I have rarely seen people flip things they really love so fast - reveals motive TO ME, IMHO - I still don't care. It wasn't a blip for me when new. Those that may make such reports or have - I wish I had time to worry about things like this beyond posting a few words. I think this the only thread I have even commented in. Yes, people have different opinions and concerns - Hobby Protection Act and all that. As someone who thinks they are not good looking rounds, who thinks 'copy" might have been employed, who thinks the borrowed design is not quite accurate and the whole thing tacky and a transparent marketing scheme (and who has no dog in this fight and has even less interest in any more of this) - I say leave Dan Carr, his "interesting" round and this topic ALONE already? In 41 years I have learned that many things work themselves out - sometimes correctly too. What that end is I really don't know and I don't care. The hobby is big enough to eventually work this out if not already then in time. It has survived all kinds of stuff. Self policing? Where has that notion got up but new strict rules here.
TO ME, this is like someone taking scrap steel and rusting it in a bucket (don't get any ideas Dan ; I know you have a rust bucket
The rest of the related issues I let others deal with. I have collecting to do. Beyond the comment by Mr. Hall - " I think there's a better than 50% chance that a few 1964 Peace dollars exist. However, I have never heard of anyone who has actually seen one and I, like you, find it hard to believe that one hasn't turned up, or at least been covertly shown to a few people." - that enough for me. His opinions seems to carry weight here and rightly so. Moving forward now....
Best to all, malice to none and with nothing further to say,
Eric
I used to be famous now I just collect coins.
Link to My Registry Set.
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-specialty-sets/washington-quarters-complete-variety-set-circulation-strikes-1932-1964/publishedset/78469
Varieties Are The Spice Of LIFE and Thanks to Those who teach us what to search For.
<< <i>I need help on this coin my brother just sent. On the back it has intials sm It does not say copy anywhere on this coin and was made in 1986? on the back it does say silver trade unit and has the eagle. thanks for any info
Bullion medallion. Not a coin. Likely listed in Unusual World Coins.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>eBay ?
first thanks edix2001
for the information. much better picture so these are worth about melt value? He sent me about 15 of these and the small squares and wondering if its better to put them up on ebay or take to my local b/m to get rid of. thanks again
I used to be famous now I just collect coins.
Link to My Registry Set.
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-specialty-sets/washington-quarters-complete-variety-set-circulation-strikes-1932-1964/publishedset/78469
Varieties Are The Spice Of LIFE and Thanks to Those who teach us what to search For.
<< <i>
The HPA does not apply to sellers outside the US, >>
Yes it does apply if the counterfeit items are going to be sold in and/or imported into the U.S.
Title 15, Chapter 48 § 2101 (b) clearly states that the manufacture in, or the importation into, the United States for introduction into, or distribution in commerce any imitation numismatic which is not plainly and permanently marked “copy”, is unlawful and is an unfair or deceptive act or practice in commerce under the Federal Trade Commission Act.
<< <i>
<< <i>eBay ?
first thanks edix2001
for the information. much better picture so these are worth about melt value? He sent me about 15 of these and the small squares and wondering if its better to put them up on ebay or take to my local b/m to get rid of. thanks again >>
Yes, it is ine troy ounce of fine silver, worth melt. Listed in Unusual World Coins under U.S. as X#130.
<< <i>
<< <i>I think the comment about eBay worried about the HPA is funny. How long would it take them to prove the Chinese counterfeiters are not complying with the HPA? These guys are doing more damage to our hobby than Dan ever will. If people are worried about the guys hiding real 64 D Peace dollars, get them to bring them out and fight the fight or give it a rest. IMHO. >>
The HPA does not apply to sellers outside the US, any more than French laws that you can't sell Nazi stuff apply to American sellers. The only risk is that customs might seize the items, or that the Federal Trade Commission will file civil charges for "deceptive trade practices" which they will not do unless the same US seller is dealing in multi million dollar quantities. In other words, there is no enforcement at all for these eBay sellers in China. That's why eBay needs to be lobbied and shamed into banning ALL reproduction coins. I'd accept losing the Gallery Mint stuff in exchange for knowing that only real coins are allowed to be sold on eBay. >>
Well said.
<< <i>
<< <i>Maybe the detractors should show the same restraint as the government or Secret Service until these are proven to be illegal in this form. But these people seem more intent in being judge and jury, not willing to wait for any legal ruling, if one will even be forthcoming. >>
Carr can pick up some additional cash by suing some of these people who claim he has committed a crime. >>
Hey, that's one way to force the Secret Service to finally take notice of the question!
<< <i>
<< <i>
The HPA does not apply to sellers outside the US, >>
Well said. >>
Too bad the quoted statement of Frank's is completely inaccurate.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
The HPA does not apply to sellers outside the US, >>
Well said. >>
Too bad the quoted statement of Frank's is completely inaccurate. >>
Based on the language in the HPA, itself, I would have to agree:
"Sec. 304.3 Applicability.
Any person engaged in the manufacturing, or importation into the United States for introduction into or distribution in commerce, of imitation political or imitation numismatic items shall be subject to the requirements of the Act and the regulations promulgated thereunder."
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Maybe they removed them cause they aren't real coins?
Why would you want to know who is reporting them? Gonna go after em and make em stop? >>
They are real coins just as real as hobo nickels and love tokens are. Yes, people making false reports
to end other people's auctions can be held responsible for economic losses and damage to the reputation
of the seller. >>
Unless you know specifically, what the reports were, you can't possibly know that they were false. >>
I'll be more than happy to divulge what I reported the items for:
They are in violation of the HPA, and are therefore subject to the regulations of the HPA, as there are no known 1964D Peace dollars ever released by the United States Mint. As such, I believe these items should be listed in the COPY or REPLICA section of eBay and the listings should clearly state that these are genuine U.S. Mint products in which the date and mint mark have been altered to a non-existent date and mint mark, as well as the surface condition has been altered to reveal a matte finish.
Obviously, eBay agreed and removed the listings.
....no choice .......must protect people ..........arghhhhhhh
<< <i>.....must continue to fight ........, can not stop .........., must fight on
....no choice .......must protect people ..........arghhhhhhh >>
Why keep dragging the threads up then ? Just askin...
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Maybe they removed them cause they aren't real coins?
Why would you want to know who is reporting them? Gonna go after em and make em stop? >>
They are real coins just as real as hobo nickels and love tokens are. Yes, people making false reports
to end other people's auctions can be held responsible for economic losses and damage to the reputation
of the seller. >>
Unless you know specifically, what the reports were, you can't possibly know that they were false. >>
I'll be more than happy to divulge what I reported the items for:
They are in violation of the HPA, and are therefore subject to the regulations of the HPA, as there are no known 1964D Peace dollars ever released by the United States Mint. As such, I believe these items should be listed in the COPY or REPLICA section of eBay and the listings should clearly state that these are genuine U.S. Mint products in which the date and mint mark have been altered to a non-existent date and mint mark, as well as the surface condition has been altered to reveal a matte finish.
Obviously, eBay agreed and removed the listings. >>
Obviously, at this point I think I'll yawn and maybe even take a nap.
<< <i>
<< <i>.....must continue to fight ........, can not stop .........., must fight on
....no choice .......must protect people ..........arghhhhhhh >>
Why keep dragging the threads up then ? Just askin... >>
there already up at the top ............. me not posting to them makes little difference ,
it is a complete waste of my time though - I will give you that
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>.....must continue to fight ........, can not stop .........., must fight on
....no choice .......must protect people ..........arghhhhhhh >>
Why keep dragging the threads up then ? Just askin... >>
there already up at the top ............. me not posting to them makes little difference ,
it is a complete waste of my time though - I will give you that >>
It is now , yes , i won't argue the point but i tend to watch these Carr threads slip off page one and be revived pointlessly.