Ebay has ended every Carr 1964-D Overstruck Dollar that I have bid on

Frankcoins · February 4, 2011 7:51AM

I have bid on 5 or 6 of the 1964-D Daniel Carr overstruck dollars in the past couple of weeks. Every one
that I was the high bidder on has ended with a letter like this from eBay

-----------------------------------------------------------------
MC999 eBay Listing Removed (449059968)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Dear frankcoins (frank@frankcoins.com),

Thanks for your interest in this listing:

260729096244 - 1964-D Carr Peace Dollar Replica - MATTE PROOF!

We're sorry to tell you that the item isn't available for purchase anymore. We removed the listing because it likely fell into one of these three categories:

-- The listing doesn't follow eBay guidelines.
-- The item isn't allowed on eBay or can only be listed under certain conditions.
-- The listing contains pictures or words that may have violated copyright or trademark rights.
---

Who are the rats reporting these LEGAL items? Attention to the sellers of these...Ebay will generally release the identity
of who reported your listing if your lawyer sends them a request, and MUST do so if requested under a formal
discovery procedure (Request for the Production of Documents or Thing)

GaCoinGuy · February 4, 2011 8:02AM

Maybe they removed them cause they aren't real coins?

Why would you want to know who is reporting them? Gonna go after em and make em stop?

coinguy1 · February 4, 2011 8:11AM

So, they're "legal". That doesn't mean that under THEIR guidelines, EBay can't require that they be listed as copies.

slipgate · February 4, 2011 8:11AM

99.9999999% it is someone on these boards. "Righteous Indignation" comes to mind.

JapanJohn · February 4, 2011 8:13AM

I bought two. Will sell one if you want and do it nice and public here if you want just to irk off the Hall Monitor.

John

silverpop · February 4, 2011 8:14AM

what you expect e-bay to allow this coin that has so many legal issues attached to it be sold on their site?

JRocco · February 4, 2011 8:17AM

I am sensing a few of the cheerleaders are harboring a lot of inner hostility.

edited to add - me and Paul made a deal and we are now both sooo much happier for it.

trosen · February 4, 2011 8:22AM

There are quite a few of Carrs 1964 dollars that did sell. Checkout the completed auctions. I think that a buy it now stands a better chance of being bought before its taken down off the site. There have been some crazy high prices on these so far.

Frankcoins · February 4, 2011 8:38AM

<< Maybe they removed them cause they aren't real coins?

Why would you want to know who is reporting them? Gonna go after em and make em stop? >>

They are real coins just as real as hobo nickels and love tokens are. Yes, people making false reports
to end other people's auctions can be held responsible for economic losses and damage to the reputation
of the seller.

llafoe · February 4, 2011 8:42AM

Legal is subjective... if you drive 80 in a 55 and don't get caught... you were legal to do so (or so it would appear). Once you get caught, it was illegal to do 80 in a 55. These haven't been challenged, so you can't state that they're legal.

They don't affect me or my family, so I could care less if they're bought or sold. But you can't state factually that they're legal.

JapanJohn · February 4, 2011 8:46AM

These haven't been challenged, so you can't state that they're legal.

I'd be willing to bet dinner that somebody here has already called the Secret Service. And I'd be willing to bet another dinner that the Secret Service could care less.

John

AUandAG · February 4, 2011 8:46AM

Yes, people making false reports
to end other people's auctions can be held responsible for economic losses and damage to the reputation
of the seller. >>

Nah, don't think this is accurate frank. Ebay is the sole decision maker on these not anyone else. Perhaps
they are on Ebay's radar? Maybe nobody is reporting them. There are many venues to sell them and Ebay just
chooses not to be one of them. Heck, it's their site, is it not?

bob

llafoe · February 4, 2011 8:46AM

<< 

<< Maybe they removed them cause they aren't real coins?

Why would you want to know who is reporting them? Gonna go after em and make em stop? >>

They are real coins just as real as hobo nickels and love tokens are. Yes, people making false reports
to end other people's auctions can be held responsible for economic losses and damage to the reputation
of the seller. >>

Some people may believe a seller of these coins may have already ruined their reputation. These are collectibles... they have NO real value outside silver bullion value. If they're against eBay policy, then who's making false reports?

llafoe · February 4, 2011 8:49AM

<< These haven't been challenged, so you can't state that they're legal.

I'd be willing to bet dinner that somebody here has already called the Secret Service. And I'd be willing to bet another dinner that the Secret Service could care less.

John >>

C'mon brother, you know better than that... you're in Japan, would you rather one of our agencies keep your family safe or go after a small minter of altered coins? If 9/11 didn't happen, the scenario probably wouldn't be the same. Weak argument.

Shamika · February 4, 2011 8:51AM

Can you not contact Carr directly and work out a deal? Is he no longer a member of these boards?

llafoe · February 4, 2011 8:52AM

<< Can you not contact Carr directly and work out a deal? Is he no longer a member of these boards? >>

He's sold out all 6 variations of these... they're being flipped on the secondary market.

JapanJohn · February 4, 2011 8:56AM

<< 

<< These haven't been challenged, so you can't state that they're legal.

I'd be willing to bet dinner that somebody here has already called the Secret Service. And I'd be willing to bet another dinner that the Secret Service could care less.

John >>

C'mon brother, you know better than that... you're in Japan, would you rather one of our agencies keep your family safe or go after a small minter of altered coins? If 9/11 didn't happen, the scenario probably wouldn't be the same. Weak argument. >>

SS would have shut him down during production and sales. Now it's too late. The coins are in about 1000 or more different hands and as evidenced by me in different countries as well. It's a real Peace Dollar with an altered date.

What are they going to get him for? I really fail to see a crime here. It's not counterfeiting. It was a real Peace dollar which is legal tender. I doubt they could circulate. However, if they did it still is a PEACE DOLLAR. There really has been no crime committed.

John

Frankcoins · February 4, 2011 8:59AM

<< Legal is subjective... if you drive 80 in a 55 and don't get caught... you were legal to do so (or so it would appear). Once you get caught, it was illegal to do 80 in a 55. These haven't been challenged, so you can't state that they're legal.

>>

Clearly incorrect. Driving 80 in a 55 zone is illegal, caught or not.
U.S. Title 18, Chapter 17, Section 331: Prohibits among
other things, fraudulent alteration and mutilation of coins. This
statue does not, however, prohibit the mutilation of coins if done
without fraudulent intent if the mutilated coins are not used
fraudulently. As long as the coins are not represented as
actual 1964-D coins, there is no fraud involved. And since the
government states that NO actual coins exist, there is no
situation where these could be mistaken for actual 1964-D
coins. In addition, Carr has added die diagnostics that would
not be present on an actual coin, if they existed. Also since a
exisiting coin does not have an upset edge (type 2 planchet)
the flatness near the rims is a 100% diagnostic that these
are not as originally struck.

llafoe · February 4, 2011 9:02AM

John - That's your interpretation. Others believe they're not legal... or are unethical at best. You mentioned the key phrase of the argument: altered date. PCGS won't slab an altered date and will even take a "coin doctor" to court if they submit a coin with an altered date. eBay won't allow them on their website (at least under Peace Dollar). Once one is sold to an unknowledgeable buyer for an outrageous price, then they will be tested in court.

The ONLY people that seem to be arguing for them being "legal", are the ones that purchased them?

goodmoney4badmoney · February 4, 2011 9:02AM

I guess eBay chooses to enforce their own policy, anyone with an opinion about these other than eBay means nothing. I agree with eBay in this case but I am not the "rat".

mudskippie · February 4, 2011 9:07AM

Frank, did you have a chance to buy them when they were first offered on the website? Perhaps, you have already had a set but wanted an additional set for investment?

llafoe · February 4, 2011 9:07AM

Frank - You're missing the point. Just because you do/did something illegal and don't/didn't get caught; it doesn't/didn't mean the act is legal.

I chose not to buy any of these because I feel they are altered coins that will eventually be sold as original coins... I also believe that original intent of the manufacturer/seller doesn't exclude one from prosecution.

coinguy1 · February 4, 2011 9:08AM

<< 

<< Maybe they removed them cause they aren't real coins?

Why would you want to know who is reporting them? Gonna go after em and make em stop? >>

They are real coins just as real as hobo nickels and love tokens are. Yes, people making false reports
to end other people's auctions can be held responsible for economic losses and damage to the reputation
of the seller. >>

Unless you know specifically, what the reports were, you can't possibly know that they were false.

PawPaul · February 4, 2011 9:10AM

me and Paul made a deal and we are now both sooo much happier for it.

Lakesammman · February 4, 2011 9:17AM

I'm at work and ebay is banned so I can't check - - have they eliminated the coins in the replica/copy category also?

I know they cancelled auctions in the "real coin" category earlier in the week.

llafoe · February 4, 2011 9:19AM

<< I'm at work and ebay is banned so I can't check - - have they eliminated the coins in the replica/copy category also?

I know they cancelled auctions in the "real coin" category earlier in the week. >>

I see two currently listed.

Edit: Strike that... there's a set of 5 for $2,500. There are three auctions (seven coins) currently listed.

CaptHenway · February 4, 2011 9:19AM

<< John - That's your interpretation. Others believe they're not legal... or are unethical at best. You mentioned the key phrase of the argument: altered date. PCGS won't slab an altered date and will even take a "coin doctor" to court if they submit a coin with an altered date. eBay won't allow them on their website (at least under Peace Dollar). Once one is sold to an unknowledgeable buyer for an outrageous price, then they will be tested in court.

The ONLY people that seem to be arguing for them being "legal", are the ones that purchased them? >>

So it would seem. They sure seem obsessed with calling themselves right.

llafoe · February 4, 2011 9:21AM

I don't see it as right or wrong... I see it as unproven. But then again, I'm right brained.

PawPaul · February 4, 2011 9:24AM

ahem ........... when the white flag is waved , folks ain't supposed to shoot at it ..........

I see there is now a "FANTASY ISSUE COINS" category on eBay now ..........that should be perfect for anyone wanting to sell their D.Carr Peace Dollars there .........

Lakesammman · February 4, 2011 9:27AM

Aren't there some "Franklin" counterfeits in "fantasy" PCGS holders?? I'd like to see one of the TPG's holder them as fantasy pieces.

Unknown · February 4, 2011 9:28AM

This content has been removed.

JapanJohn · February 4, 2011 9:35AM

<< Frank - You're missing the point. Just because you do/did something illegal and don't/didn't get caught; it doesn't/didn't mean the act is legal.

I chose not to buy any of these because I feel they are altered coins that will eventually be sold as original coins... I also believe that original intent of the manufacturer/seller doesn't exclude one from prosecution. >>

I tend to agree that it is probably just a matter of time before someone eBay or Craigslist's a "I found this in my grandpa's estate. Grandpa worked at the mint.......blah, blah, blah".

But his coin wasn't the first 64 Peace Dollar by a long shot. Nobody has been fooled before (that we know of) so why would somebody bite now? If you Google "1964 Peace Dollar" the first page of hits immediately shows the Dan Carr stuff. So anybody who bought one as an original could probably be conned into buying almost anything. Anybody that buys the Holy Grail 64 Peace dollar for moon money and doesn't do their homework deserves to be parted from their cash.

John

llafoe · February 4, 2011 9:52AM

It wouldn't have to be moon money... I believe misrepresentation and theft over $5,000 is fraud in most states.

As for previous counterfeits... I don't believe anyone used period silver from a real Peace dollar (same size and weight) with an identical design (probably produced digitally) before DCarr. It's easier to deceive someone with an original product than a fabricated product.

My ONLY contribution here is... these haven't been proven legal OR illegal.

Lakesammman · February 4, 2011 9:56AM

Well, if they're illegal, I already sold mine to Izzy.

lkeigwin · February 4, 2011 10:44AM

<< Yes, people making false reports to end other people's auctions can be held responsible for economic losses and damage to the reputation of the seller. >>

Nah, don't think this is accurate frank. Ebay is the sole decision maker on these not anyone else. Perhaps they are on Ebay's radar? Maybe nobody is reporting them. There are many venues to sell them and Ebay just chooses not to be one of them. Heck, it's their site, is it not?

bob >>

That's only partly true. There are certain ebay members considered experts in their fields who can report fraudulent auctions and get them taken down virtually on their say so. There are at least a few such members here, according to DW. ebay doesn't question their assessments, though ebay does have to take the final action.
Lance.

derryb · February 4, 2011 10:50AM

<< 

<< Maybe they removed them cause they aren't real coins?

Why would you want to know who is reporting them? Gonna go after em and make em stop? >>

They are real coins just as real as hobo nickels and love tokens are. Yes, people making false reports
to end other people's auctions can be held responsible for economic losses and damage to the reputation
of the seller. >>

The decision to end the aution is at the sole discretion of ebay, not the person reporting it as a possible violation. Your team of lawyers needs to go after ebay.

allegri · February 4, 2011 10:55AM

Ebay's Terms of Use allow them (ebay) sole discretion over what can be sold using their service. At this juncture apparently they have decided the Carr 1964-D Overstruck Dollar is disallowed.

Frankcoins · February 4, 2011 11:41AM

<< Frank, did you have a chance to buy them when they were first offered on the website? Perhaps, you have already had a set but wanted an additional set for investment? >>

I do have die pair 5 that I bought directly from Mr. Carr, and particularly wanted a prooflike and a "bagmarked" one.

timber100 · February 4, 2011 11:43AM

<< I have bid on 5 or 6 of the 1964-D Daniel Carr overstruck dollars in the past couple of weeks. Every one
that I was the high bidder on has ended with a letter like this from eBay

-----------------------------------------------------------------
MC999 eBay Listing Removed (449059968)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Dear frankcoins (frank@frankcoins.com),

Thanks for your interest in this listing:

260729096244 - 1964-D Carr Peace Dollar Replica - MATTE PROOF!

We're sorry to tell you that the item isn't available for purchase anymore. We removed the listing because it likely fell into one of these three categories:

-- The listing doesn't follow eBay guidelines.
-- The item isn't allowed on eBay or can only be listed under certain conditions.
-- The listing contains pictures or words that may have violated copyright or trademark rights.
---

Who are the rats reporting these LEGAL items? Attention to the sellers of these...Ebay will generally release the identity
of who reported your listing if your lawyer sends them a request, and MUST do so if requested under a formal
discovery procedure (Request for the Production of Documents or Thing) >>

Frank, next time you see one you want, would it be possible to send the seller a note saying something to the effect, " I am interested in the coin, if ebay takes it down perhaps we can work out a price later." Maybe you could both save some money if ebay does not want it on their site

Goldbully · February 4, 2011 11:50AM

Introducing the:

"1964-D" Fantasy Restrike Replica Peace Dollar
Die Pair 6, Sandblast Matte
Created By Artist: Daniel Carr
Produced January, 2011.
These coins were bead-blasted and burnished after over-striking to produce matte proofs.
Certificates issued with these coins identify them as “Die Pair 6, Sandblast Matte”.
This "Fantasy Restrike Replica" is of Premium quality, was individually-handled, and is consistent with MS-67+ grade. Bead-blasting and burnishing after over-striking to produce a Matte Proof Finish. Some evidence of underlying host coin design will likely show somewhere, such as forehead, front of neck, back of neck, and/or Eagle's shoulder. Housed in a non-PVC "flip" holder with certificate indicating "Die Pair 6, Sandblast Matte".
THE FINAL mintage with this Matte Proof Finish is only ***132***

The 1964-D Peace silver dollar is one of the most enigmatic coins in history. On August 3 1964 legislation was enacted authorizing 45 million new silver dollars to be coined. In May 1965 the White House finally ordered some to be produced and the Denver Mint soon minted 316,076 of the coins which carried a 1964 date and a design identical to the Peace silver dollar last minted from 1921-1935. Shortly after the first mintage, an order went out to destroy them. The Treasury Department claims every one was accounted for and melted. None have publicly surfaced in the 45 years since. If an original 1964 Peace silver dollar were to turn up, it would be subject to immediate confiscation since it would be assumed to be stolen government property.

Now available is this modern over-strike "1964-D" Peace silver dollar, the most exacting and faithful rendition ever produced. Holding this coin in hand gives the viewer a true sense of what it would be like to own an original 1964-D Peace silver dollar. And since these are over-struck on genuine Peace silver dollars, they have the correct weight (no metal is added or removed), correct metallic content, and correct diameter. Even the number of reeds on the edge (189) is correct. And to top it off, all the over-strikes are privately and painstakingly performed using a surplus Denver Mint coin press !

In an ironic twist, the original 1964 Peace dollars are illegal to own. But this modern fantasy is LEGAL and is not required to carry a "COPY" stamp for the following reasons:

1) These are not copies of Peace silver dollars - they are privately over-struck on GENUINE government-issue Peace silver dollars that were originally minted from 1922-1935.
2) According to the US Treasury, no 1964 Peace silver dollars survived - so this can't be a copy of one since they don't exist.
3) Defacing of US coins is legal so long as the defacement isn't for fraudulent purposes.

By purchasing this coin, the buyer agrees to provide full disclosure of their origin when reselling them. Failure to provide potential buyers with complete and accurate information when offering these coins could result in criminal and/or civil fraud charges. In other words, don't even think about trying to sell these to unaware buyers as original 1964-D Peace silver dollars !

The pictures are of the actual coin you are considering. Since this coin was over-struck on an existing coin, there may be faint evidence under magnification of the original coin design showing as the overstrike is usually not perfectly aligned with the original strike. A die gouge to the right of the "D" mint mark provides a marker for future identification as to the source. Also note the fourth extra ray below "ONE", as seen on the original 1921 issue and on some of the 1935-S issue. Coin will come in its original protective flip with original insert as shown in the photos. Do not attempt to use these as legal tender. This product is NOT endorsed or approved by the US Mint, US Treasury, or US Government.

Holy Carp!!!

mrcoin3 · February 4, 2011 11:50AM

I see one of the matte coins sold for $675 in the replica category recently.

Frankcoins · February 4, 2011 11:52AM

<< NGC (NCS) regularly "doctors" coins, and they do so in order to increase those coin's value. (For example: They remove the types of "tarnish", that some think is 'ugly', a dark film, PVC residue, etc.)

>>

Amazine that many of the NGC conserved coins make it into problem free slabs...

I would hate to pay for these coins...

and find out they used to look like THIS

ambro51 · February 4, 2011 11:57AM

Should have bought when the opportunity presented itself.

JRocco · February 4, 2011 12:00PM

<< Anybody that buys the Holy Grail 64 Peace dollar for moon money and doesn't do their homework deserves to be parted from their cash.

John >>

Sounds like you are preying on the innocent and/or ignorant JJ, or at least don't give a cr@p about them.
What about the little old lady who buys one thinking it is something for her granddaughter?

JupitarCoins · February 4, 2011 12:16PM

<< These haven't been challenged, so you can't state that they're legal.

I'd be willing to bet dinner that somebody here has already called the Secret Service. And I'd be willing to bet another dinner that the Secret Service could care less.

John >>

CaptHenway · February 4, 2011 12:20PM

"Paranoia strikes deep.
Into your life it will creep.
It starts when you're always afraid.
You step out of line, the man come and take you away...."

OchoReales · February 4, 2011 12:24PM

You better Stop, Hey
What's that sound
Everybody look
What's going down

mrcoin3 · February 4, 2011 12:40PM

Let's see....should I put my matte on eBay or sell it here??

GaCoinGuy · February 4, 2011 12:53PM

<< 

<< 

<< Maybe they removed them cause they aren't real coins?

Why would you want to know who is reporting them? Gonna go after em and make em stop? >>

They are real coins just as real as hobo nickels and love tokens are. Yes, people making false reports
to end other people's auctions can be held responsible for economic losses and damage to the reputation
of the seller. >>

The decision to end the aution is at the sole discretion of ebay, not the person reporting it as a possible violation. Your team of lawyers needs to go after ebay. >>

I can see it now...

"Man sues EBay because they won't let him bid on an item."

Casman · February 4, 2011 1:04PM

<< I see one of the matte coins sold for $675 in the replica category recently. >>

That was mine.....Sold in around 6 hours...

Monstarcoins · February 4, 2011 1:05PM

<< John - That's your interpretation. Others believe they're not legal... or are unethical at best. You mentioned the key phrase of the argument: altered date. PCGS won't slab an altered date and will even take a "coin doctor" to court if they submit a coin with an altered date. eBay won't allow them on their website (at least under Peace Dollar). Once one is sold to an unknowledgeable buyer for an outrageous price, then they will be tested in court.

The ONLY people that seem to be arguing for them being "legal", are the ones that purchased them? >>

I havent bought any of them but I still think that they are cool and they are clearly legal....Have you read the Hobby Act??? These "coins" are replicas of a imaginary coin. A coin that is said to not exist. If the government would have said that the 1964D's do exist or did exist than I am sure Mr. Carr would have never attempted this project. All D Carr is doing is trying to provide a product for a hobby that is supposed to be fun. I can feel the owners of these coins pain, because I have to constantly defend by desired area of the hobby. (Collecting Rainbow Toned Coins) I think that it is really sad, I cant believe how folks think it is fair to try to ruin the fun of others. Im not hurting anybody by collecting what I collect and the folks collecting these uber cool fantasy pieces are not hurting anybody. Yet we get treated like cinderella.

Ebay has ended every Carr 1964-D Overstruck Dollar that I have bid on

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