Yes I received the coin back from PCGS and Yes the coin will be returned to PCGS. In my honest and Professional opinion there is NOTHING wrong with the coin. As soon as I make my decision I will post it.
<< <i>Yes I received the coin back from PCGS and Yes the coin will be returned to PCGS. In my honest and Professional opinion there is NOTHING wrong with the coin. As soon as I make my decision I will post it.
Stewart Blay >>
Stewart, so you're saying that you see absolutely no evidence of any spot removal?
Also, at this point, what decision do YOU have to make (and post about, afterwards)? If you've already decided to return the coin to PCGS, isn't it PCGS (and not you) that will be making the next significant decision?
<< <i>Yes I received the coin back from PCGS and Yes the coin will be returned to PCGS. In my honest and Professional opinion there is NOTHING wrong with the coin. As soon as I make my decision I will post it.
Stewart Blay >>
............ "YES the coin will be returned to PCGS " ; what decision am I waiting for you to post ?
<< <i>If this story is indeed accurate in all its details, it makes me laugh that collectors still pay these clowns to give their "expert opinion" on a coin's grade. >>
Well said! I crack up at these so called " experts" " clowns" Well said indeed! I get all sorts of different grades from all of these so called " experts" Still PCGS is the company I go to....And the best in the business....
The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
<< <i>If this story is indeed accurate in all its details, it makes me laugh that collectors still pay these clowns to give their "expert opinion" on a coin's grade. >>
Well said! I crack up at these so called " experts" " clowns" Well said indeed! I get all sorts of different grades from all of these so called " experts" Still PCGS is the company I go to....And the best in the business.... >>
Well said.And most of the people bellyaching probably never sent a coin in for grading.For now they are the best! Period.
STEWARTBLAYNUMIS said: "Yes I received the coin back from PCGS and Yes the coin will be returned to PCGS. In my honest and Professional opinion there is NOTHING wrong with the coin. As soon as I make my decision I will post it."
STEWARTBLAYNUMIS said:"I have decided to personally give the coin to PCGS at the FUN show. "
Is PCGS or Mr. Blay willing to share the result of this situation? An answer of "no" is acceptable, of course.
There is no "AT" or "NT". We only have "market acceptable" or "not market acceptable.
It seems only reasonable that while a high quality scan like PCGS uses for secure plus, might not be the ultimate arbiter of a subtlety like altered surfaces, it probably could, with almost scientific precision, tell if the coin has been in any way altered since it's previous submission. To me that is the interesting aspect to this discussion.
Yeah...I was wondering if the outcome of this thread was the reason that SB started the other thread this weekend asking if "graders make mistakes".....?
Yeah...I was wondering if the outcome of this thread was the reason that SB started the other thread this weekend asking if "graders make mistakes".....? >>
Do you think he meant to ask "do PCGS graders make the same mistake twice"?
First, I think Stewart is a fool if he actually cracked out a coin in a Secure Plus holder. But I think he knows better and it was cracked out from a regular holder and resubmitted for Secure Plus Service and was BB. Second, I feel the Secure Plus grading system is the best in the industry. It can miss a few things, that's why humans also look at the coins. But, I believe the graders utilize the image from the Lazer scanner to grade the coin. It probably shows up as a bigger image, thus allowing faster turn around time because the graders don't have to squint so much. Third, I submitted a coin via the Secure Plus system, knowing the coin was an MS 67. It came back as a 66+. I resubmitted it and notified them that there was a problem on the coin. Below Kennedys' bust, there is a shinny spot. This is where it was struck thru an object, which you see utilizing a loop. BUT, if you use the scanner's image, it looks like a gouge. It was walked from customer service to the graders. It was cracked out, regraded via the Plus system now knowing it was a struck thru mark on the coin. Three graders looked at the coin including the head grader. It WAS placed in the MS 67 holder that it deserved. The coin came from a roll. Fourth, I also submitted a coin in a regular holder, coming back as an MS 66. On the fourth submission, as soon as the Secure Plus system came on line, the coin graded MS 67+. The coin looked like it had abraisions, etc on it, but they weren't that many so 66. But, with the blown up image, you can see it's just variences in the toning pattern. The scanner helped here on this coin, but hurt the first coin. Errors DO happen. Fifth, if it's in a Plus holder, DON'T crack it out and resubmit raw, you will lose. The regular coins are NOT scanned yet, probbably won't due to time, expense, wear and tear on the units. Secure Plus WILL allow PCGS to recognize a coin when submitted and then resubmitted. If different, probably BB. If stolen, probably returned back to original owner. True View photos are fantastic, high quality. You can magnify the coin VERY much. This way, you can see every flaw in the coin. Plus the show toning very well, thus can increase value, use to sell a coin, used by PCGS to see it if changed significantly, either via cleaning or "doctoring". I'm a believer. And not as in the Monkee's song either. Ray
You only live life once, enjoy it like it's your last day. It just MIGHT be!
<< <i>You crack em out and you take your chances - if PCGS thinks that the coin has changed, tough luck. You sent it in for an opinion and they gave it. doesn't matter what it once graded. >>
I don't understand why you would " Crack Out " a PCGS Secured Plus encapsulated coin in the first place . Care to explain what your motivation was for doing that and than re-submitting it ?
<< <i>I cracked out an ms 65 Flying Eagle cent out of a PCGS Secure holder. It came back in a genuine holder (98) because of tooling or altered surfaces.
Now I have to send it back with the Secure tag stating the grade as MS 65. It will then be placed back in an MS 65 holder.
I just don't get it
Stewart Blay >>
Neither do I. Why on earth would you go to the trouble of cracking it out of an PCGS slab, only to resubmit it for reholdering?
Yeah...I was wondering if the outcome of this thread was the reason that SB started the other thread this weekend asking if "graders make mistakes".....? >>
<< <i>I don't understand why you would " Crack Out " a PCGS Secured Plus encapsulated coin in the first place . Care to explain what your motivation was for doing that and than re-submitting it ? >>
He explained that earlier in the thread, as follows:
<<Has anyone ever submitted a PCGS Secure coin in the holder and got an upgrade ? Not to my knowledge
That is why I cracked the coin out of the Secure holder and sent it in regular service and also to get the DDO designation.>>
In other words, he thought that to have any chace at an upgrade, he needed to (re)submit the coin out of a secure plus holder.
<< <i>I cracked out an ms 65 Flying Eagle cent out of a PCGS Secure holder. It came back in a genuine holder (98) because of tooling or altered surfaces.
Now I have to send it back with the Secure tag stating the grade as MS 65. It will then be placed back in an MS 65 holder.
I just don't get it
Stewart Blay >>
Neither do I. Why on earth would you go to the trouble of cracking it out of an PCGS slab, only to resubmit it for reholdering? >>
See my previous post - initially, he cracked the coin out of the secure plus holder and submitted it, in hopes of an upgrade. But after the coin was returned to him in a genuine holder, his best available option was to try to get it (re)holdered at the grade it was originally.
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<< Has anyone ever submitted a PCGS Secure coin in the holder and got an upgrade ? Not to my knowledge
Stewart >>
That is, to me, an interesting question. Does anyone know the answer to it? >>
The answer is yes, and has been posted on a number of occasions. I'm guessing it has even been posted within this thread, but I have no plans to read through it, in order to find out.
Look up submission # 9126394, lines 2 and 3. Secure Plus upgrades. The other were reholdered for the pedigree. Thay's two coins that I know of for sure. Anyone else?
You only live life once, enjoy it like it's your last day. It just MIGHT be!
<< <i>Look up submission # 9126394, lines 2 and 3. Secure Plus upgrades. The other were reholdered for the pedigree. Thay's two coins that I know of for sure. Anyone else? >>
Thanks for the link. Please let me know via PM how you do that. The ONLY submission that was mine was the single one pointed out. Wish I hag the others! LOL Thanks!
You only live life once, enjoy it like it's your last day. It just MIGHT be!
<< <i>There are a few issues that need to be addressed:
1) if you think a coin in a Secure Plus holder is undergraded all you have to do is submit it as a regrade, in the holder, and you have as good a chance of getting an upgrade as if you submit it through the Standard service. Secure Plus was not created to stop all upgrades, but to stop all upgrades on coins that had been subsequently doctored. Don't believe me? Try it, others have.
2) we have received coins that have previously been in Secure Plus holders that have beed doctored afterwards. They get body bagged. That is the point.
3) all coins sent through Secure Plus are photographed as well as scanned. If a coin that was previously sent through Secure Plus is sent in again, raw or in the holder, it will be matched via the scan and the photographs will be compared as well by the verifier.
4) If it turns out that we missed something during grading on any submission it will be covered by our guarantee. PCGS has the best guarantee in the businesss, hands down.
5) If you are buying an expensive coin Secure Plus is the best protection you can get. >>
I can add this much:
#1 I have sent in a lot of coins in PCGS holders that both did and did not upgrade. #2 I have sent a $5000 coin that PCGS DID NOT upgrade or downgrade but wrote me a check for, so when Don talks about a guarantee he is not lying and I am a nobody.
I seldom check PM's but do check emails often jason@seated.org
Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.
I think PCGS is a company with sound standards and Mr. Blay is a respected collector. That being said...
STEWARTBLAYNUMIS said: "Yes I received the coin back from PCGS and Yes the coin will be returned to PCGS. In my honest and Professional opinion there is NOTHING wrong with the coin. As soon as I make my decision I will post it."
STEWARTBLAYNUMIS said:"I have decided to personally give the coin to PCGS at the FUN show. "
Is PCGS or Mr. Blay willing to share the result of this situation? An answer of "no" is acceptable, of course.
There is no "AT" or "NT". We only have "market acceptable" or "not market acceptable.
"most coins that collectors consider undergraded are actually silently net graded for a problem that the collector doesn't recognize"
I once owned a PCGS graded MS62 seated dime that looked solid MS63 to me. I only recognized the problem when an experienced dealer pointed it out for me.
The measure of intelligence is the ability to change.
Albert Einstein (14 March 1879--18 April 1955)
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<< Has anyone ever submitted a PCGS Secure coin in the holder and got an upgrade ? Not to my knowledge
Stewart >>
That is, to me, an interesting question. Does anyone know the answer to it?
you have made a couple of informative posts in this thread ..........I went back and looked for a reason you feel it should be locked ,
what specific motivation do you have for suggesting or asking that it be " locked" ? >>
Motivation....personally none.
Specifically why though.....this was already a "he said - she said" thread in November. Now, it's rapidly becoming a "if it don't fit, you must acquit" thread....with nowhere to go but down, anyway it ends up.
.......I think the facts as presented are pretty straight forward , and as I said , I sure would like to know the outcome from either one or both of the parties involved .
I can not see how the final outcome would be a downer ; except for maybe the O.P
........but if you feel that strongly , then yes, lets request it be locked .........the truth forever hidden from our eye's
Comments
Yes I received the coin back from PCGS and Yes the coin will be returned to PCGS. In my honest and Professional opinion there is NOTHING wrong with the coin. As soon as I make my decision I will post it.
Stewart Blay
<< <i>Yes I received the coin back from PCGS and Yes the coin will be returned to PCGS. In my honest and Professional opinion there is NOTHING wrong with the coin. As soon as I make my decision I will post it.
Stewart Blay >>
Stewart, so you're saying that you see absolutely no evidence of any spot removal?
Also, at this point, what decision do YOU have to make (and post about, afterwards)? If you've already decided to return the coin to PCGS, isn't it PCGS (and not you) that will be making the next significant decision?
and remember , please make sure to submit it under the SECURE PLUS tier !
<< <i>Yes I received the coin back from PCGS and Yes the coin will be returned to PCGS. In my honest and Professional opinion there is NOTHING wrong with the coin. As soon as I make my decision I will post it.
Stewart Blay >>
............ "YES the coin will be returned to PCGS " ; what decision am I waiting for you to post ?
I have decided to personally give the coin to PCGS at the FUN show.
Stewart
Did the FEC finally grade ???
<< <i>I have decided to personally give the coin to PCGS at the FUN show.
Stewart >>
"Give it", as in a gift? You are TOO kind,
<< <i>I have decided to personally give the coin to PCGS at the FUN show. >>
here's to hoping the right call is made, either way.
<< <i>If this story is indeed accurate in all its details, it makes me laugh that collectors still pay these clowns to give their "expert opinion" on a coin's grade. >>
<< <i>
<< <i>If this story is indeed accurate in all its details, it makes me laugh that collectors still pay these clowns to give their "expert opinion" on a coin's grade. >>
Well said.And most of the people bellyaching probably never sent a coin in for grading.For now they are the best! Period.
I'm positive I am not the only one wanting to see how this pan's out
STEWARTBLAYNUMIS said:"I have decided to personally give the coin to PCGS at the FUN show. "
Is PCGS or Mr. Blay willing to share the result of this situation? An answer of "no" is acceptable, of course.
It seems only reasonable that while a high quality scan like PCGS uses for secure plus, might not be the ultimate arbiter of a subtlety like altered surfaces, it probably could, with almost scientific precision, tell if the coin has been in any way altered since it's previous submission. To me that is the interesting aspect to this discussion.
an answer of "no" is not acceptable in any form what so ever
<< <i>.....anything to say Mr. Stewart ? >>
Yeah...I was wondering if the outcome of this thread was the reason that SB started the other thread this weekend asking if "graders make mistakes".....?
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>Is PCGS or Mr. Blay willing to share the result of this situation? An answer of "no" is acceptable, of course.
an answer of "no" is not acceptable in any form what so ever >>
Not true... I used to have this very argument with my ex-wife and I always lost!
<< <i>
<< <i>.....anything to say Mr. Stewart ? >>
Yeah...I was wondering if the outcome of this thread was the reason that SB started the other thread this weekend asking if "graders make mistakes".....? >>
Do you think he meant to ask "do PCGS graders make the same mistake twice"?
Second, I feel the Secure Plus grading system is the best in the industry. It can miss a few things, that's why humans also look at the coins. But, I believe the graders utilize the image from the Lazer scanner to grade the coin. It probably shows up as a bigger image, thus allowing faster turn around time because the graders don't have to squint so much.
Third, I submitted a coin via the Secure Plus system, knowing the coin was an MS 67. It came back as a 66+. I resubmitted it and notified them that there was a problem on the coin. Below Kennedys' bust, there is a shinny spot. This is where it was struck thru an object, which you see utilizing a loop. BUT, if you use the scanner's image, it looks like a gouge. It was walked from customer service to the graders. It was cracked out, regraded via the Plus system now knowing it was a struck thru mark on the coin. Three graders looked at the coin including the head grader. It WAS placed in the MS 67 holder that it deserved. The coin came from a roll.
Fourth, I also submitted a coin in a regular holder, coming back as an MS 66. On the fourth submission, as soon as the Secure Plus system came on line, the coin graded MS 67+. The coin looked like it had abraisions, etc on it, but they weren't that many so 66. But, with the blown up image, you can see it's just variences in the toning pattern. The scanner helped here on this coin, but hurt the first coin. Errors DO happen.
Fifth, if it's in a Plus holder, DON'T crack it out and resubmit raw, you will lose. The regular coins are NOT scanned yet, probbably won't due to time, expense, wear and tear on the units. Secure Plus WILL allow PCGS to recognize a coin when submitted and then resubmitted. If different, probably BB. If stolen, probably returned back to original owner. True View photos are fantastic, high quality. You can magnify the coin VERY much. This way, you can see every flaw in the coin. Plus the show toning very well, thus can increase value, use to sell a coin, used by PCGS to see it if changed significantly, either via cleaning or "doctoring". I'm a believer. And not as in the Monkee's song either. Ray
<< <i>The over/under until this thread is locked, I'm guessing is 18 hours, unless PCGS is closed for MLK day. >>
I'm not sure why you want it locked. Why don't you just not just open the thread again?
<< <i>The over/under until this thread is locked, I'm guessing is 18 hours, unless PCGS is closed for MLK day. >>
a resubmission was announced here.
we're just asking about the results.
we're not out of control. (yet.)
no lock for you!
<< <i>You crack em out and you take your chances - if PCGS thinks that the coin has changed, tough luck. You sent it in for an opinion and they gave it. doesn't matter what it once graded. >>
<< <i>I cracked out an ms 65 Flying Eagle cent out of a PCGS Secure holder. It came back in a genuine holder (98) because of tooling or altered surfaces.
Now I have to send it back with the Secure tag stating the grade as MS 65. It will then be placed back in an MS 65 holder.
I just don't get it
Stewart Blay >>
Neither do I. Why on earth would you go to the trouble of cracking it out of an PCGS slab, only to resubmit it for reholdering?
<< <i>
<< <i>.....anything to say Mr. Stewart ? >>
Yeah...I was wondering if the outcome of this thread was the reason that SB started the other thread this weekend asking if "graders make mistakes".....? >>
Again B man ; you show you are one smart feller !
<< <i>I think this is the next thread that should be locked. >>
I have no rational basis to agree with you ;
the truth shall set us free - anything short of that is bondage ......
This thread made public a situation that is very important to myself as I'm sure many others , and the final outcome made public in the same way
would answer some very serious questions that have been asked.
I see no valid reason to sweep the facts under the carpet
<< <i>I don't understand why you would " Crack Out " a PCGS Secured Plus encapsulated coin in the first place . Care to explain what your motivation was for doing that and than re-submitting it ? >>
He explained that earlier in the thread, as follows:
<<Has anyone ever submitted a PCGS Secure coin in the holder and got an upgrade ? Not to my knowledge
That is why I cracked the coin out of the Secure holder and sent it in regular service and also to get the DDO designation.>>
In other words, he thought that to have any chace at an upgrade, he needed to (re)submit the coin out of a secure plus holder.
<< <i>
<< <i>I cracked out an ms 65 Flying Eagle cent out of a PCGS Secure holder. It came back in a genuine holder (98) because of tooling or altered surfaces.
Now I have to send it back with the Secure tag stating the grade as MS 65. It will then be placed back in an MS 65 holder.
I just don't get it
Stewart Blay >>
Neither do I. Why on earth would you go to the trouble of cracking it out of an PCGS slab, only to resubmit it for reholdering? >>
See my previous post - initially, he cracked the coin out of the secure plus holder and submitted it, in hopes of an upgrade. But after the coin was returned to him in a genuine holder, his best available option was to try to get it (re)holdered at the grade it was originally.
Collector
Posts: 1256
Joined: Jul 2001
Wednesday November 17, 2010 8:45 PM (NEW!)
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<< Has anyone ever submitted a PCGS Secure coin in the holder and got an upgrade ? Not to my knowledge
Stewart >>
That is, to me, an interesting question. Does anyone know the answer to it?
you have made a couple of informative posts in this thread ..........I went back and looked for a reason you feel it should be locked ,
what specific motivation do you have for suggesting or asking that it be " locked" ?
<< <i>tcmitssr
Collector
Posts: 1256
Joined: Jul 2001
Wednesday November 17, 2010 8:45 PM (NEW!)
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<< Has anyone ever submitted a PCGS Secure coin in the holder and got an upgrade ? Not to my knowledge
Stewart >>
That is, to me, an interesting question. Does anyone know the answer to it? >>
The answer is yes, and has been posted on a number of occasions. I'm guessing it has even been posted within this thread, but I have no plans to read through it, in order to find out.
Thay's two coins that I know of for sure.
Anyone else?
<< <i>Look up submission # 9126394, lines 2 and 3. Secure Plus upgrades. The other were reholdered for the pedigree.
Thay's two coins that I know of for sure.
Anyone else? >>
linked
<< <i>There are a few issues that need to be addressed:
1) if you think a coin in a Secure Plus holder is undergraded all you have to do is submit it as a regrade, in the holder, and you have as good a chance of getting an upgrade as if you submit it through the Standard service. Secure Plus was not created to stop all upgrades, but to stop all upgrades on coins that had been subsequently doctored. Don't believe me? Try it, others have.
2) we have received coins that have previously been in Secure Plus holders that have beed doctored afterwards. They get body bagged. That is the point.
3) all coins sent through Secure Plus are photographed as well as scanned. If a coin that was previously sent through Secure Plus is sent in again, raw or in the holder, it will be matched via the scan and the photographs will be compared as well by the verifier.
4) If it turns out that we missed something during grading on any submission it will be covered by our guarantee. PCGS has the best guarantee in the businesss, hands down.
5) If you are buying an expensive coin Secure Plus is the best protection you can get. >>
I can add this much:
#1 I have sent in a lot of coins in PCGS holders that both did and did not upgrade.
#2 I have sent a $5000 coin that PCGS DID NOT upgrade or downgrade but wrote me a check for, so when Don talks about a guarantee he is not lying and I am a nobody.
Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.
Buying great coins - monster eye appeal only.
STEWARTBLAYNUMIS said: "Yes I received the coin back from PCGS and Yes the coin will be returned to PCGS. In my honest and Professional opinion there is NOTHING wrong with the coin. As soon as I make my decision I will post it."
STEWARTBLAYNUMIS said:"I have decided to personally give the coin to PCGS at the FUN show. "
Is PCGS or Mr. Blay willing to share the result of this situation? An answer of "no" is acceptable, of course.
I once owned a PCGS graded MS62 seated dime that looked solid MS63 to me. I only recognized the problem when an experienced dealer pointed it out for me.
The measure of intelligence is the ability to change.
Albert Einstein (14 March 1879--18 April 1955)
<< <i>tcmitssr
Collector
Posts: 1256
Joined: Jul 2001
Wednesday November 17, 2010 8:45 PM (NEW!)
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<< Has anyone ever submitted a PCGS Secure coin in the holder and got an upgrade ? Not to my knowledge
Stewart >>
That is, to me, an interesting question. Does anyone know the answer to it?
you have made a couple of informative posts in this thread ..........I went back and looked for a reason you feel it should be locked ,
what specific motivation do you have for suggesting or asking that it be " locked" ? >>
Motivation....personally none.
Specifically why though.....this was already a "he said - she said" thread in November. Now, it's rapidly becoming a "if it don't fit, you must acquit" thread....with nowhere to go but down, anyway it ends up.
I can not see how the final outcome would be a downer ; except for maybe the O.P
........but if you feel that strongly , then yes, lets request it be locked .........the truth forever hidden from our eye's
.what we don't know can't hurt us right ?
The coin is now with PCGS in Newport Beach California.
Stewart Blay
<< <i>The coin is now with PCGS in Newport Beach California.
Stewart Blay >>
Thank you for continuing to share this with us!
great suspense!