scrutiny on a gem mint 10 tiffany card

CrazyMind2017 · January 13, 2011 7:11AM

# GEM-MT 10: Gem Mint
A PSA Gem Mint 10 card is a virtually perfect card. Attributes include four perfectly sharp corners, sharp focus and full original gloss. A PSA Gem Mint 10 card must be free of staining of any kind, but an allowance may be made for a slight printing imperfection, if it doesn't impair the overall appeal of the card. The image must be centered on the card within a tolerance not to exceed approximately 55/45 to 60/40 percent on the front, and 75/25 percent on the reverse.

# MINT 9: Mint
A PSA Mint 9 is a superb condition card that exhibits only one of the following minor flaws: a very slight wax stain on reverse, a minor printing imperfection or slightly off-white borders. Centering must be approximately 60/40 to 65/35 or better on the front and 90/10 or better on the reverse.

Look at the top of the H and the top of the S. Do you guys think these defects fall within the accepted range for a 10, or did the grader miss something?

1954 · January 13, 2011 7:16AM

that is a very nice card and I would have no problem with the grade.

Shane

thedutymon · January 13, 2011 7:17AM

Afternoon,

My card its an NM-MT 8, 4SC that's a GEM MINT 10 all day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YeeHah

Neil

firedawg45 · January 13, 2011 8:11AM

wish i could find a psa 10 rose #1 with those slight imperfections, nice card.

GooshA · January 13, 2011 8:32AM

Hi Neil, that comment on 4sc scares me. I have actually bought graded cards from them lately. I paid way more then should have, and if I crack them out, I would not expect the same grade. Is there an actual possibility a large PSA customer could in fact get grade benefits ? That would be like another Upper Deck integrity situation. Are we living in the world of friends and family with this stuff ?

CNote · January 13, 2011 8:36AM

<< Hi Neil, that comment on 4sc scares me. I have actually bought graded cards from them lately. I paid way more then should have, and if I crack them out, I would not expect the same grade. Is there an actual possibility a large PSA customer could in fact get grade benefits ? That would be like another Upper Deck integrity situation. Are we living in the world of friends and family with this stuff ? >>

That's just someone being bitter that their 40 year old non sport stuff didn't come back the grade they thought it was when it was looked at under a loupe at home while drinking some High Life.

CrazyMind2017 · January 13, 2011 8:45AM

LOL Neil, that may be the case, but I didn't buy it from 4SC (not to say they're not the ones who originally submitted it). Seems the seller who sold it to me is likely also a major PSA customer though.

So first off, let me say that I like the card a lot and I know how difficult it is to find, so I'm torn as to what I should do. Considering all the crap flying around here lately involving Mickey's 1969 Mays card and Bobby's 1986 Fleer Jordan rookie, do you guys think it would be unreasonable for me to ask the seller if I could return the card for a full refund? Would it be unreasonable if I asked for a partial refund (and I keep the card) due to the print defect?

I should point out that I bought it on ebay, and a scan of the front was provided. It was not as large or as detailed as the one I posted at the top of this thread, but it did show clearly the defect above the S. The defect above the H was not visible in the ebay scan, but that defect is much smaller, and on its own, it would be totally inconsequential in my opinion. However, since the nature of the defect above the H is the same as the defect above the S, it becomes somewhat relevant.

For the same reason I think it's possible that Bobby never inspected his Jordan PSA 8 closely, I also didn't closely inspect the image provided of this Schmidt card on ebay before bidding. I figured, "hey, it's a PSA 10, there can't be anything wrong with it." If I'd seen there was a problem above the S, I may or may not have bid, and I definitely would not have bid as much.

Also of note, there's some very slight scuffing on one of the edges that's visible when looking at the back of the card with a flashlight but without a magnifying glass. It's not a serious flaw by any stretch of anyone's imagination, but in the context of a 10 that already has a significant defect on the front, in my mind it becomes relevant, despite it being almost impossible to see under normal conditions.

Bottom line is I'd be absolutely thrilled to keep this card in a PSA 9 holder if I had paid a PSA 9 price. At nearly $54 I'm not sure this card is really worth keeping, so I don't know what to do. Suggestions?

MOST IMPORTANT OF ALL, if I tried to flip this card to another buyer in this holder as a PSA 10, do you think I'd be out of line? That is, should I consider bringing it to PSA's attention and possibly seek compensation that way?

TIA

Dpeck100 · January 13, 2011 8:54AM

I have purchased a large number of graded cards from 4 Sharp Corners and they have been nothing but a pleasure to deal with.

It is possible they have gotten a few cards through in holders that are not worthy but my belief is that is more from the massive number of cards they get graded and if mistakes are made and you are one of the top three submitors you are more likely to have a few of those cards.

They are super professional and have helped me complete my sets and provide liquidity to the graded card market.

If some how PSA is giving them special treatment I think that would be a major mistake and I am skeptical that is happening.

swartz1 · January 13, 2011 8:54AM

It is possible to over scrutinize PSA 10 cards...

that is the case here...

that is a perfect example of a PSA GEM 10

CrazyMind2017 · January 13, 2011 8:58AM

<< It is possible to over scrutinize PSA 10 cards...

that is the case here...

that is a perfect example of a PSA GEM 10 >>

Thank you. That's exactly what I wanted to know, and that's why I posted about it.

Dpeck100 · January 13, 2011 9:03AM

I too second that.

I would never look at the card and think it was over graded.

I am not an 86 Topps Tiffany expert and don't know the minute details that could throw it off but the scan looks great to me and that looks like an awesome card.

thedutymon · January 13, 2011 9:30AM

<< Hi Neil, that comment on 4sc scares me. I have actually bought graded cards from them lately. I paid way more then should have, and if I crack them out, I would not expect the same grade. Is there an actual possibility a large PSA customer could in fact get grade benefits ? That would be like another Upper Deck integrity situation. Are we living in the world of friends and family with this stuff ? >>

SSSSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH !!!!!

You'll get this poofed

YeeHah

Neil

thedutymon · January 13, 2011 9:32AM

<< 
That's just someone being bitter that their 40 year old non sport stuff didn't come back the grade they thought it was when it was looked at under a loupe at home while drinking some High Life. >>

Hey.................................I resemble that Remark!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Except I woudn't touch High Life with your lips, Bud man all the way!!!!!!!

YeeHah

Neil

CrazyMind2017 · January 13, 2011 9:32AM

Yeah, please don't poof my thread.

GooshA · January 13, 2011 9:54AM

Dnote was just describing himself, and his bitterness.

mcadams · January 13, 2011 10:09AM

I'm glad you posted this card and initiated this debate. I've often wondered myself to what extent printing flaws are allowed by PSA, before dinging a card down from 10 to 9. In my opinion, I would keep the card and I think its a legit 10. I give less weight to the 2 spots because they are not on the picture itself, but at the top. If the spots were on his face, it would be a different story altogether. This is a great example of how PSA grading is an art, not a science.

-Michael

goye · January 13, 2011 10:15AM

check out this beauty......

1986 tiffany

the double deviation on the psa 10 appears only over the S on this one, but this also has a 2nd L issue

but check out the magic corners on the bottom corners, poof?

then again....

CrazyMind2017 · January 13, 2011 10:29AM

fascinating!

thehallmark · January 13, 2011 10:49AM

You know how sometimes when people ask for grading opinions, we say things like:
85% of the time it will be 9
13% of the time it will be an 8
2% it will be a 10

Well...this was one of those outliers.

MULLINS5 · January 13, 2011 10:49AM

Last summer I sent a batch of cards to be graded and was absolutely certain at least two would be a PSA 10.

One of those two came back in a PSA 4 holder with a major crease that was not there before sending it.

The other "should've been a 10" came back PSA 9. The "should've been 9s" came back PSA 7-8.

I personally have not used my platinum membership since and will not be renewing.

otwcards · January 13, 2011 10:54AM

It is always the graders fault. ALWAYS!

royalbrett · January 13, 2011 11:00AM

I once bought a '89 Topps George Brett PSA 10 off of ebay. The picture showed what looked like a round stain, about 1/8th of an inch diameter. I thought it had to be junk on the guy's scanner.
Got the card, but there was that stain. Scanned the card without showing the flip, and put in on exhibit here, where everyone guessed PSA ST or PSA 8.

Boopotts · January 13, 2011 11:36AM

<< You know how sometimes when people ask for grading opinions, we say things like:
85% of the time it will be 9
13% of the time it will be an 8
2% it will be a 10

Well...this was one of those outliers. >>

The moderators should just take the above post, make it a sticky, and anyone who ever asks another question about whether a card warrants a given grade could be provided with a link to it.

DeutscherGeist · January 13, 2011 12:17PM

It is not overgraded per say. It could have well been in a PSA 9 holder too, though. We are dealing with a 10 point scale, so not a lot of room for having different grades. The 100 point scale would do this card more justice as it would score between 91 and 99.

CrazyMind2017 · January 13, 2011 12:35PM

I want to thank everyone for all the input. Initially, I thought there was a possibility that I had unwittingly bought the flip and not the card, but I don't think that's the case here.

If I had been the original submitter and it had come back as a 9, I think I might have been a little disappointed that it didn't come back a 10, and that disappointment would have been justified.

It seems that most people agree it's a bit of a low-end 10, but a legit 10 nonetheless.

WinPitcher · January 13, 2011 12:36PM

Andre actually PSA now uses an 18 point scale.

The card IMO appears ok. I have no problem seeing it in a 10 holder.

Not sure what imperfections some see. The card is blown up too.

DeutscherGeist · January 13, 2011 10:29PM

I know PSA does have half grades now, but there is nothing between a 9 and a 10. There is no 9.5. There is a huge $$ difference between a PSA 9 and PSA 10, yet the actual condition is not so obvious. A 100 point scale would help spread the values a bit.

royalbrett · January 14, 2011 1:00AM

I found my original post:

Original post

The image is gone, but you can see by the responses what was up.

bking · January 14, 2011 1:05AM

<< 

<< Hi Neil, that comment on 4sc scares me. I have actually bought graded cards from them lately. I paid way more then should have, and if I crack them out, I would not expect the same grade. Is there an actual possibility a large PSA customer could in fact get grade benefits ? That would be like another Upper Deck integrity situation. Are we living in the world of friends and family with this stuff ? >>

SSSSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH !!!!!

You'll get this poofed

YeeHah

Neil

>>

I think it's simple law of averages. If you sub 50 cards on a special, you might get one that's a gift.

If 4SC (or any other large submitter) sends in 500, that's possibly 10 gifts.

minnesotahusker · January 14, 2011 3:10AM

IN

WinPitcher · January 14, 2011 5:58AM

<< I know PSA does have half grades now, but there is nothing between a 9 and a 10. >>

lol ya I know, that's why I said 18 not 19. lol

Just messing with ya.

100 point scale is even worse.

Steve

CrazyMind2017 · January 18, 2011 2:36PM

Mike Schmidt, meet Ernie Banks.

Looks like I hit the jackpot on overgraded 10s for this card. The weird purple dots actually look worse to the naked eye than on the enlarged scan, if you can believe that. And there's a small stain on the back. I wonder if I gauged my own eyes out with an ice pick to blind myself if that would help me get a job as a PSA grader. I have a handful of PSA 9s that look better than both this card and the tiffany card that I originally asked about at the beginning of this thread.

scrutiny on a gem mint 10 tiffany card

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