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Possible fake Trade $ in a Pcgs holder on E-bay!

TennesseeDaveTennesseeDave Posts: 4,893 ✭✭✭✭✭
Maybe I'm wrong,but this coin does not look right.Of course the cert.# matches.I looked on Heritage archives and could not find a coin with the matching cert#,but IMO this coin and slab are fake!

1873-S Pcgs MS-63 on E-bay
Trade $'s

Comments

  • TequilaDaveTequilaDave Posts: 271 ✭✭✭
    It sure doesn't seem from the photos to be an MS63 dollar.
  • I wouldn't bid on it if I were you.
    Even if it wasn't circulated, as it appears to be, it's f##kin' ugly..fake or no fake.
  • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,895 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think so too (fake).

    The next big leap for the Chinese counterfeiters is learning how to grade.
    Lance.
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,604 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Looks fine to me. Just a coin that doesn't image well.
  • 15 day return policy...
  • Looks fine to me. Just a coin that doesn't image well.


    thats not very nice, as people look up to your opinion especially when talking
    top-end coins and trade dollars
  • GoldbullyGoldbully Posts: 18,500 ✭✭✭✭✭
    XF40 or fake! image

    image

    image

    image
  • StupidStupid Posts: 559 ✭✭✭
    I would think the funky toning/photo just makes it look bad. I think it is real.
  • sinin1sinin1 Posts: 7,500
    look at the stars and denticles on the left side

    image
  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 25,029 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nice catch....looks way off to me. Dentils are all uneven: 3:00 on the obverse
    is easy to spot.

    bob
    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,604 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Looks fine to me. Just a coin that doesn't image well.


    thats not very nice, as people look up to your opinion especially when talking
    top-end coins and trade dollars >>



    image
  • coindeucecoindeuce Posts: 13,510 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I've never known TDN to make a flippant remark about a series that he cares very much about. The above criticism was totally ignorant. I highly doubt that the seller could have handled some of the high dollar coins showing in their feedback without having elementary skill at recognizing a fake Trade Dollar.

    "Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
    http://www.american-legacy-coins.com

  • looks real to me and nice & original.
  • coinguy1coinguy1 Posts: 13,484 ✭✭✭


    << <i>XF40 or fake! image

    image

    image

    image >>

    No, weakly struck unc. or counterfeit. My guess is genuine.
  • SoCalBigMarkSoCalBigMark Posts: 2,845 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The Trade Dollar Legend has right now is a moose.
  • TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,957 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Weak strike doesn't explain uneven dentils. What I'm talking about can be clearly seen on the reverse near "RI" in "AMERICA" and "420".
  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭
    eBay nuked the auction. I sure hope a legit seller didn't get hit with a violation due to reports from this forum.

    Russ, NCNE
  • TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,957 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>eBay nuked the auction. I sure hope a legit seller didn't get hit with a violation due to reports from this forum.

    Russ, NCNE >>



    So, does that mean that based on the images of the coin alone (forget the seller and the slab) you believe this coin to be authentic, Russ?
  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>eBay nuked the auction. I sure hope a legit seller didn't get hit with a violation due to reports from this forum.

    Russ, NCNE >>



    So, does that mean that based on the images of the coin alone (forget the seller and the slab) you believe this coin to be authentic, Russ? >>



    I have no opinion as to authenticity one way or the other.

    Russ, NCNE
  • sinin1sinin1 Posts: 7,500
    when I first saw the coin I felt something was off with the stars and denticles on the left

    especially the 2nd and 3rd stars with weak and overly strong points - and felt probably 80% fake

    after TDN gave it thumbs up, I looked much closer and feel that what I see as not a mint product COULD be
    an artifact of imaging, pixelation, resizing, and my moniter resolution
    especially with the toning patterns being typical for the coin/series


    I still feel that 50% chance of fake
    but uncirculated from the pics presented


    I did not report item as fake and mean no disrespect to TDN or the seller


    just that if I was in the market for a coin like that, I would pass on this one due to the imaging


    the sad part is that even though it is what looks like a PCGS holder, I can not be certain

    and PCGS has even announced that you should only buy slabs from major auction houses or legitimate national dealers
    which puts a very big question mark in my mind about the PCGS brand and guarantee
  • braddickbraddick Posts: 25,103 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So fake it makes my teeth hurt.

    (I was offered this coin as a fake. . .)
  • Wow that is sooo not Mint state at all
  • mcarney1173mcarney1173 Posts: 927 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>XF40 or fake! image

    image

    image

    image >>



    54' 40' or fight! image
  • tjkilliantjkillian Posts: 5,578 ✭✭✭


    << <i>So fake it makes my teeth hurt.

    (I was offered this coin as a fake. . .) >>




    Sort of like the starred reverse large cent?


    It looks like it could easily be mint state to me, although I do not know the series.
    Tom

  • While I agree with sinin1 that one should not invest that much money with those level of pictures, I just don't see the smoking gun that it is fake like the rest of you and I think I know a thing or two about the series. I could be wrong
  • coinguy1coinguy1 Posts: 13,484 ✭✭✭


    << <i>While I agree with sinin1 that one should not invest that much money with those level of pictures, I just don't see the smoking gun that it is fake like the rest of you and I think I know a thing or two about the series. I could be wrong >>

    I don't either. Nor do I recall having seen that type of color/toning on counterfeits, at least not yet.
  • coinpicturescoinpictures Posts: 5,345 ✭✭✭
    So did the seller voluntarily withdraw the coin, or is this a case of mob mentality winning out where no definitive evidence existed?

    If the latter, that's a dangerous precedent to set...


  • << <i>So did the seller voluntarily withdraw the coin, or is this a case of mob mentality winning out where no definitive evidence existed?

    If the latter, that's a dangerous precedent to set... >>



    I have had auctions pulled because self apointed ebay police (that I suspect were from one of the main coin forums) started a reporting string. It happens and sellers have little recourse unless you go through a long proof providing apeals process and even then you just get your listing fee back which is chump change and often not worth the time. The precedent has already been set many times over on the Bay.
  • TennesseeDaveTennesseeDave Posts: 4,893 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would like to try to clear something up.I did not report the coin as a fake,just wanted to get others opinions as to what they thought.I see that Braddick stated that he was offered the coin as a fake,so most likely it is.I don't know,that is why I asked for opinions.The only fake Trade $ that I unfortunately bought was a 73-S that many here thought was real as did I.Pcgs said Questionable authenticity.It is a scarced date that is counterfieted often,therefore when I saw it and thought it did not look like the grade stated on the holder it raised some flags!
    Trade $'s
  • TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,957 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I also didn't report this coin. I did, however, ran the images by one of the top experts in counterfeits and received the following:



    << <i>Regarding the Trade dollar - the thing SCREAMS fake to me. I agree with you 100% that the dentils are recut at the edge of the die. That alone is a prima fascia case of forgery. Also coupled with recent numerous reports of fakes in PCGS slabs the GRADE does bother me. If they had given the coin an EF grade I would be far less suspicious but the surfaces of the coin look dead. If you notice the light source used in the picture produces a Cart Wheel effect on the circumference of the plastic holder on the reverse side and I wonder where is the corresponding cart wheel on the coin. I see no trace whatsoever and this purports to be MS63. That makes no sense and screams at me as well.

    Even the bar code on the label (which I guess could be due to the photo) looks like some of the bars merge like the printer copied them poorly.

    If eBay pulled the auction it was unlikely the result of a casual contact like yours. I would be willing to bet one of the people now watching eBay for PCGS spotted one of the "errors" the Chinese make in the holder and reported it. I have heard that PCGS has gotten aggressive with regard to fake slabs because they threaten their business. The "errors" in the holders are NOT in the public domain yet because PCGS knows the forgers would simply correct the problem. PCGS also can contact the current owner of the original and verify that this is a SECOND example with the same # assigned. That works well for recently encapsulated originals. >>

  • Lot of experts here with strong opinions based of bad photos. Anybody that would feel so definitely off of second hand circumstantial evidence makes me question their status as an expert. I have handled lots of fake and real trade dollars and think it's real but I wouldn't put anything on it without a closer look, I would think the same should go for the dissenters

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