Posting derogitory comments can often have unintended consequences

Bear · December 23, 2010 1:04AM

That is the very reason that this Forum bans such threads. When people pile on

in a negative way, it is sometimes more public humiliation then a person can bear.

In the future, let us remember that words can be as sharp a weapon as the blade

of a knife.Always attempt to use words carefully, tactfully and with moderation. I can

not say that the harsh words written on this Forum in any way caused this tragedy, however

I can not say that it did not act as the straw that broke the camels back.

"Be slow to anger and quick to forgive"

Fairlaneman · December 23, 2010 1:07AM

Weak minds can be affected by anything. Strong minds can handle situations in a rational way.

Ken

Bear · December 23, 2010 1:11AM

Ken, not all people have the maturity , the strength and the faith, to stand

against the tide of misfortune.

drwstr123 · December 23, 2010 1:14AM

<< Ken, not all people have the maturity , the strength and the faith, to stand

against the tide of misfortune. >>

Darwin's Law.

Dog97 · December 23, 2010 1:16AM

I famous person once said 'You can't fix stupid!"

CaptHenway · December 23, 2010 1:16AM

<< Weak minds can be affected by anything. Strong minds can handle situations in a rational way.

Ken >>

My late wife attempted suicide a few times over the years out of despair over her chronic health problems.
I am sorry you think so little of her.
Tom DeLorey

Edited to add: She did not die of suicide, but as a result of the chronic health problems.
Many people have problems. Thank the God you recognize that you do not have the other person's problems, but merely yours.

AMRC · December 23, 2010 1:19AM

Bear, you just wiped out about 70% of the content that Newspapers rely on.

We all tow a line, and have to be responsible for it. On the reverse, have to be just as responsible in forming our own opinions on any situation before us, and not throw stones just because everyone else is.

dbcoin · December 23, 2010 1:36AM

Bear, I agree.

One thing that hasn't been said is will the police investigate the deleted threads and take some action? Bullied to death? Kind of like the girl who killed herself due to Facebook comments.

Would not surprise me to see this whole story play out on the news or a 20/20 type show.

Maybe PCGS needs to delete the BST threads. Maybe even these boards.

It's a shame. I am at a loss for words.

BigE · December 23, 2010 1:39AM

<< Bear, I agree.

One thing that hasn't been said is will the police investigate the deleted threads and take some action? Bullied to death? Kind of like the girl who killed herself due to Facebook comments.

Would not surprise me to see this whole story play out on the news or a 20/20 type show.

Maybe PCGS needs to delete the BST threads. Maybe even these boards.

It's a shame. I am at a loss for words. >>

You forget that this forum has helped many work out their problems as well---------------------BigE

TequilaDave · December 23, 2010 1:40AM

The problem with forums like this is that there's no context to a written statement and no body language to clarify and/or modify the statement, just stark words that can often be taken very negatively. This particularly applies to emails. Managers have to be especially careful in their word choice when writing to their staff and it's strongly suggested that no emails be sent when you're angry since it comes out loud and clear in your message. And yes, I realize this is all physco-babble and I'm opening myself up to the flame-throwers, but for whatever reason, it seems to work!

CertifiedGoldCoins · December 23, 2010 1:41AM

"Weak minds can be affected by anything. Strong minds can handle situations in a rational way."

Everyone has a breaking point. May you never find yours.

ProofCents · December 23, 2010 1:43AM

Most threads are written based on one side of a story. People forget there are always two side to a story.

Tonelover · December 23, 2010 1:46AM

Fairlaneman · December 23, 2010 1:51AM

<< "Weak minds can be affected by anything. Strong minds can handle situations in a rational way."

Everyone has a breaking point. May you never find yours. >>

Sir the breaking point happened about 42 years ago and was handled. Like I said " Strong minds handle situations in a rational way"

Believe me the problem was not on a frigin chat board.

Ken

ColonelJessup · December 23, 2010 2:11AM

<< 

<< "Weak minds can be affected by anything. Strong minds can handle situations in a rational way."

Everyone has a breaking point. May you never find yours. >>

Sir the breaking point happened about 42 years ago and was handled. Like I said " Strong minds handle situations in a rational way"

Believe me the problem was not on a frigin chat board.

Ken >>

I am overwhelmed by your compassion. Surely your dealing with your own breaking point helped you learn a great deal from the experience, and you have grown from it to the point where those lessons inform all your dealings with lesser mortals.

RYK · December 23, 2010 2:13AM

<< 

<< Bear, I agree.

One thing that hasn't been said is will the police investigate the deleted threads and take some action? Bullied to death? Kind of like the girl who killed herself due to Facebook comments.

Would not surprise me to see this whole story play out on the news or a 20/20 type show.

Maybe PCGS needs to delete the BST threads. Maybe even these boards.

It's a shame. I am at a loss for words. >>

You forget that this forum has helped many work out their problems as well---------------------BigE >>

That is an excellent point. If we had known he was in trouble, perhaps we could have helped him in some way.

Even despite his prolonged absence, Cameron had far, far more friends here than detractors. I and others who did not know him well had a blind faith that even though things appeared not to be working well for him presently on the business side, that he was a good person and one of strong character. He even came here and posted with great conviction that he was only a shipping carrier change from righting everything. Later, we have come to learn that he had significant and ultimately ruinous financial problems.

There is no doubt that if some influential folks here knew of this, arrangements could and would have been made, perhaps an internship or mentorship, perhaps some financial assistance or a job with a coin firm. For goodness sakes, everyone liked the kid, and everyone wanted him to do well.

ColonelJessup · December 23, 2010 2:14AM

<< ... it's strongly suggested that no emails be sent when you're angry since it comes out loud and clear in your message. And yes, I realize this is all physco-babble and I'm opening myself up to the flame-throwers, but for whatever reason, it seems to work! >>

That's not psycho-babble, that's common sense about human nature.

kryptonitecomics · December 23, 2010 2:17AM

<< 

<< "Weak minds can be affected by anything. Strong minds can handle situations in a rational way."

Everyone has a breaking point. May you never find yours. >>

Sir the breaking point happened about 42 years ago and was handled. Like I said " Strong minds handle situations in a rational way"

Believe me the problem was not on a frigin chat board.

Ken >>

I don't think you are trying to trivalize what happened but I think the situation with Cameron went far beyond comments on a coin forum.....financial distress has been the cause of many thousands of suicides over the years. Clinical depression can criple the strongest of men....I have been there and it sounds like potentially you have as well so I don't think we can jump to the conclusion that a person is weak if they take that action as there is so much more to it then just strength of character etc.

Fairlaneman · December 23, 2010 2:18AM

<< 

<< 

<< "Weak minds can be affected by anything. Strong minds can handle situations in a rational way."

Everyone has a breaking point. May you never find yours. >>

Sir the breaking point happened about 42 years ago and was handled. Like I said " Strong minds handle situations in a rational way"

Believe me the problem was not on a frigin chat board.

Ken >>

I am overwhelmed by your compassion. Surely your dealing with your own breaking point helped you learn a great deal from the experience, and you have grown from it to the point where those lessons inform all your dealings with lesser mortals. >>

I have no compassion for people who devastate the people closest to themselves, children, wives, parents, through selfish actions. What is so hard to understand about this?

Ken

ProofCents · December 23, 2010 2:21AM

Some reckless people have blood on there hands.

gettyongo12 · December 23, 2010 2:27AM

We need to understand people make mistakes and not ridicule them when they do, but instead, work with them to make good.

COINB0Y · December 23, 2010 2:29AM

Stop preaching such ridiculous pap!

To me, his choices were mutually exclusive, both involved a mutually exclusive decision of action and both incur different results. The harm caused by the first choice is never mitigated or subjugated to the harm caused by the second choice. His thefts and his lies in the attempt to cover up were exposed and are incontrovertible Facts, not malicious "gossip" or accusations. He had a choice in how to deal with it

But if you want to really talk unintended consequences, the folks who offer little sympathy today are those 'unintended consequences' from two years ago, when the viscous level of attack on his VICTIMS from Board members was outrageous! Lack of empathy to him now was caused by the members who then supported the thief, despite the open, overwhelming evidence and the bold-face lies, he made himself, in writing!

When you die (besides worldly things you accumulated as you passed thru), only memories of you by others, memories of your honor, memories of the way you treated people, are what really matter.

Leave it at that.

*POOF*

tradedollarnut · December 23, 2010 2:30AM

The idea that a chatroom drove someone to suicide is nonsensical. The man obviously had deep deep issues that went far beyond this place in order to leave a wife and two young children fending for themselves. I tend to agree with Ken, with perhaps a tinge more of regret that he didn't seek out and receive the help needed to get him through this in a different way

BAJJERFAN · December 23, 2010 2:32AM

<< Bear, I agree.

One thing that hasn't been said is will the police investigate the deleted threads and take some action? Bullied to death? Kind of like the girl who killed herself due to Facebook comments.

Would not surprise me to see this whole story play out on the news or a 20/20 type show.

Maybe PCGS needs to delete the BST threads. Maybe even these boards.

It's a shame. I am at a loss for words. >>

We here do not know the extent of his financial woes. Perhaps the infrequent situations here were just the tip of the iceberg. Sorry to hear of the way it played out. There are plenty of folks here who would have offered help or advice if asked.

adamlaneus · December 23, 2010 2:38AM

Well, the BST is the 'wild west'. Your primary recourse is word of mouth.

If we are to cease communications about bad transactions on the BST, then there should be no BST.

It is a shame nobody was there to talk him down.

mrearlygold · December 23, 2010 2:39AM

Some people have class, others, not so much.

braddick · December 23, 2010 2:41AM

Godspeed Cameron, but the true victims are a despondent wife and two small childrren.

ColonelJessup · December 23, 2010 2:45AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< "Weak minds can be affected by anything. Strong minds can handle situations in a rational way."

Everyone has a breaking point. May you never find yours. >>

Sir the breaking point happened about 42 years ago and was handled. Like I said " Strong minds handle situations in a rational way"

Believe me the problem was not on a frigin chat board.

Ken >>

I am overwhelmed by your compassion. Surely your dealing with your own breaking point helped you learn a great deal from the experience, and you have grown from it to the point where those lessons inform all your dealings with lesser mortals. >>

I have no compassion for people who devastate the people closest to themselves, children, wives, parents, through selfish actions. What is so hard to understand about this?

Ken >>

Excellent moral point. This is a tragedy. For many.

And, once again, the effin human race has let you down.

Can a Jew remind you at Christmas time about "loving the sinner while still hating the sin"?

Uh, too much ambiguity......?

kryptonitecomics · December 23, 2010 3:05AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< "Weak minds can be affected by anything. Strong minds can handle situations in a rational way."

Everyone has a breaking point. May you never find yours. >>

Sir the breaking point happened about 42 years ago and was handled. Like I said " Strong minds handle situations in a rational way"

Believe me the problem was not on a frigin chat board.

Ken >>

I am overwhelmed by your compassion. Surely your dealing with your own breaking point helped you learn a great deal from the experience, and you have grown from it to the point where those lessons inform all your dealings with lesser mortals. >>

I have no compassion for people who devastate the people closest to themselves, children, wives, parents, through selfish actions. What is so hard to understand about this?

Ken >>

I don't understand and I frankly I don't need too......you have a right to your opinion of course but personally I have enough compassion to compensate for those that have none and while you may not understand that.....I sleep easy at night knowing I was not put on this earth to judge others. Have I done it in my life...yes I have....am I trying to be a better person by offering forgiveness and compassion even when none is warranted....yes I am. What always comes to mind when things like this come up and folks critize others is glass houses...nough said....

bidask · December 23, 2010 3:07AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< "Weak minds can be affected by anything. Strong minds can handle situations in a rational way."

Everyone has a breaking point. May you never find yours. >>

Sir the breaking point happened about 42 years ago and was handled. Like I said " Strong minds handle situations in a rational way"

Believe me the problem was not on a frigin chat board.

Ken >>

I am overwhelmed by your compassion. Surely your dealing with your own breaking point helped you learn a great deal from the experience, and you have grown from it to the point where those lessons inform all your dealings with lesser mortals. >>

I have no compassion for people who devastate the people closest to themselves, children, wives, parents, through selfish actions. What is so hard to understand about this?

Ken >>

Excellent moral point. This is a tragedy. For many.

And, once again, the effin human race has let you down.

Can a Jew remind you at Christmas time about "loving the sinner while still hating the sin"?

Uh, too much ambiguity......?

>>

Certainly, .......your question makes me think of Jesus of Nazareth.

IrishMikey · December 23, 2010 6:32AM

A friend is no longer with us, at a tragically young age, and all some of you can say is that you
are superior to him, that your strength of mind and body makes you better. It must be interesting
to live with this kind of moral certainty.

A breaking point is not something that one "deals with." It is exactly what it says, the point at which
someone is "broken" either in mind or spirit. Having re-read all of the previous postings concerning
Cameron, I have to agree that some of the individuals on this forum did contribute to Cameron
reaching his breaking point sooner than was necessary.

I will miss you, Cameron. I hope you find a better world in the future.

TonedRarities · December 23, 2010 6:35AM

<< A friend is no longer with us, at a tragically young age, and all some of you can say is that you
are superior to him, that your strength of mind and body makes you better. It must be interesting
to live with this kind of moral certainty.

A breaking point is not something that one "deals with." It is exactly what it says, the point at which
someone is "broken" either in mind or spirit. Having re-read all of the previous postings concerning
Cameron, I have to agree that some of the individuals on this forum did contribute to Cameron
reaching his breaking point sooner than was necessary.

I will miss you, Cameron. I hope you find a better world in the future. >>

Personally having dealt with people who have had suicidal thoughts, if you are that far off to where taking your own life is your, "salvation", so to speak, then you should not be on the computer in the first place. The main priority they should be looking for beyond all else is mental stability. Because now 3 people are inadvertently devistated by one act, forever.

DoubleEagle59 · December 23, 2010 6:41AM

I believe nothing said on this forum drove Cameron to his end.

I've never been one to 'second guess' why things happen or maybe I should say 'what could have been done' to prevent such a thing.

We did what we normally do.

We reacted in a 'law abiding' way, and that was to show our displeasure and our disappointment in this person's business activities.

No guilt should be felt by anyone.

But now is a time to mourn for the person and not dwell on his business activities.

oreville · December 23, 2010 1:35PM

We will never really know.

It is a sad day.

However, it might be a good thing to dwell on what good things Cameron did for the hobby rather than dwell on anything else as regarding him. After all to what end will discussing anything else do for the rest of us now or even his family NOW?

What are the good things he has done for the hobby?

1/ sampleslabs.com
2/ made it possible for the almost 100 November 10, 2006 grand opening ceremony National Purple Heart of Honor medallion to be slabbed by ICG then by ANACS. These someday will be used to help deceased purple heart veterans families.
3/ anything else POSITIVE?

seanq · December 23, 2010 1:50PM

<< 
However, it might be a good thing to dwell on what good things Cameron did for the hobby rather than dwell on anything else as regarding him. After all to what end will discussing anything else do for the rest of us now or even his family NOW? >>

Addressing the broader philosophical point you've raised, I can think of several additional names I could plug into your statement above which could cause you to question the wisdom of this line of thinking. Personally, I have a very hard time separating a man and his legacy, just as I have a hard time celebrating a man's victories without also regarding the victims of his crimes.

Sean Reynolds

SeattleSlammer · December 23, 2010 2:00PM

I tend to agree with those sentiments expressed by Ken and TDN. I don't think that it's incompatible to agree with those sentiments and yet still grieve for the tragedy of Cameron's death.

Unknown · December 23, 2010 2:28PM

This content has been removed.

BlindedByEgo · December 23, 2010 3:04PM

<< That is the very reason that this Forum bans such threads. When people pile on

in a negative way, it is sometimes more public humiliation then a person can bear.

In the future, let us remember that words can be as sharp a weapon as the blade

of a knife.Always attempt to use words carefully, tactfully and with moderation. I can

not say that the harsh words written on this Forum in any way caused this tragedy, however

I can not say that it did not act as the straw that broke the camels back.

"Be slow to anger and quick to forgive" >>

Hey Bear, did you ever settle with Doops?

pennyannie · December 23, 2010 3:30PM

This whole incident was sad, He grew up on these boards and had lot of friends. Things went well for years and then he went down the path of criminal actions. Lots of people got burned and are still burned. This was not 1 or 2 deals that went bad, but probably well over 100 if the truth ever came out. His police background and all, just leaves you shaking your head. To say that any of the comments on these boards caused this is beyond belief. You do not even know if he read any of this for sure. Usually where there is money problems you have more problems at home. For all we know he and his wife might have been having major issues but as for as selling coins he did not have, He knew what he had done, and knew it was wrong. He was the one in the wrong, not the people that bought and paid for coins that he never delivered. I am not in the habit of throwing away 500 or more dollars. If i am going to throw money out the window i want to chose where it lands, not have it scammed from me.

He chose the path he took, those that posted did not cause this and no one wanted or expected this. He was a good person that went off in a criminal direction, he could have taken responsibility for his actions and turned his life around and all would have been water under the bridge a few years down the road.

TrustNo1 · December 23, 2010 3:35PM

if people are trying to get the forum closed down for good, you're doing a great job so far.

Bear · December 23, 2010 3:36PM

I never had any problem with Doops.

WoodenJefferson · December 23, 2010 7:39PM

We are like vultures. We sit from our lofty perches, a keen eyed poised below,
searching for a weakened victim to enter the valley. One by one we begin to
unfurl our wings to swoop down, gliding effortlessly in the direction of the quarry.

As we descend some screech louder than others, some slip silently through the
thermals barely being noticed if at all. Still they come, from all directions, some
not even from this flock arrive to swoop down to see what tidbit can be had.

The sense that easy prey has entered the realm spreads like wild fire through out
the community. Our beaks are curved for ripping, our talons are sharp for gripping.

Others circle above, looking down, looking for any signs of life. They screech out,
“Call off the attack” but we are hungry, we are always hungry, waiting, conserving
our energy for the next bold attack. We are like Vultures.

ebaytrader · December 23, 2010 8:16PM

<< if people are trying to get the forum closed down for good, you're doing a great job so far. >>

I just stopped by to read some coin stuff and an Open Forum broke out.

BigRick · December 23, 2010 9:02PM

Wasn't there recently a high profile case where people were prosecuted in a similar instance (of supposedly driving someone to suicide via internet comments)?

dyolfbp · December 23, 2010 9:54PM

All the comments I read were related to bad business by the departed. Remember, a lot of members here take pride in policing the coin business. Plenty of people have been called out on these boards
for deceptive actions. That being said I do feel this board did contribute to his demise in a indirect way. He personally knew many of you, and your respect probably meant the world to him.

My prayers go out to his family, their holidays will be forever remembered by the death of their loved one.

darktone · December 23, 2010 10:04PM

I never knew Cameron on a personal level other than in pm's a few years ago and that both of us tried to get the forum to stay on topic. But I feel like I got to know him when this forum had only a small number of members and we all read every post by each other. To think some comments by his customers here caused this outcome is crazy. As others have already said he had far deeper problems than what we know and I hope his family is spared speculation on this forum of what those problems may be. Also those that are owed coins/money by Cameron that posted here did nothing to feel guilty about. I mean we all wish the kid was still here but he did have responsibilities.

bigmarty58 · December 23, 2010 10:28PM

Cameron and I did some trading on the BST. He was very responsible and treated me with dignity and respect, I will miss him.
As for these boards, people should treat people as they would like to be treated.

-Bob

RYK · December 23, 2010 10:38PM

I disagree with the characterization of CK made by pennyannie and realone, both of whom joined the forum after CK was essentially no longer a participant here. I view CK as more of a George Bailey character, who probably had a little "Uncle Billy" in him. Everyone liked George/CK, and he would never intentionally harm a soul. However, when the "Uncle Billy" side was careless with the money, George spun out of control and did some things that were out of character as he reached the point of despair. If only a friend, family member or even the forum could have acted as the role of Clarence the Angel, perhaps we would not be having this conversation. I have no doubt that forum members could have acted like the townpeople of Bedford Falls had we only known the magnitude of the problem.

carew4me · December 23, 2010 10:43PM

Its troubling that some members rightfully acknowlegde the power of community policing....

unless it applies to people that have been here awhile?

or unless it is used to cast some moral judgment after the fact?

Ludicrous fits well.

some of you knew Cameron well, but as others have stated, he alone is responsible for an action that has
devastated his family and 2 children. It is in fact the highest level of cowardice,
maybe you have to be father and husband to understand.

It is not the type of decision that should be excused in anyway. I can never have sympathy for the his situation,
only his poor family.

PerryHall · December 23, 2010 11:13PM

<< Its troubling that some members rightfully acknowlegde the power of community policing....

unless it applies to people that have been here awhile?

or unless it is used to cast some moral judgment after the fact?

Ludicrous fits well.

some of you knew Cameron well, but as others have stated, he alone is responsible for an action that has
devastated his family and 2 children. It is in fact the highest level of cowardice,
maybe you have to be father and husband to understand.

It is not the type of decision that should be excused in anyway. I can never have sympathy for the his situation,
only his poor family. >>

I think you are way off base. People suffering from severe depression can't be expected to think rationally.

WinPitcher · December 23, 2010 11:15PM

<< We are like vultures. We sit from our lofty perches, a keen eyed poised below, searching for a weakened victim to enter the valley. One by one we begin to unfurl our wings to swoop down, gliding effortlessly in the direction of the quarry. As we descend some screech louder than others, some slip silently through the thermals barely being noticed if at all. Still they come, from all directions, some not even from this flock arrive to swoop down to see what tidbit can be had. The sense that easy prey has entered the realm spreads like wild fire through out the community. Our beaks are curved for ripping, our talons are sharp for gripping. Others circle above, looking down, looking for any signs of life. They screech out, “Call off the attack” but we are hungry, we are always hungry, waiting, conserving our energy for the next bold attack. We are like Vultures. >>

Damn.

Posting derogitory comments can often have unintended consequences

Comments