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Paypal issue with my coin sales
GUINZO1975
Posts: 182
Hi guys,
I have been selling quite a lot of coins (Most graded PCGS 70) on ebay lately, in fact, my sales spiked up the last two months and unfortunately, it got the attention of Paypal. Anyway, I get an email from Paypal requesting the following information from me:
1) Bank statements
2) Credit Card Statements
3) Vendor/Supplier information
4) Proof of inventory
I called them back and told them that I am not a coin dealer and as such, I don't have any "vendors". I stated that I simply purchased coins from the US Mint and I sold them on ebay. I told the lady on the phone that I don't feel comfortable sending all my information to them (They already have two of my bank accounts, my social security number, address, credit cards, and telephone number). I further stated that they have no right to my bank statements and she didn't like my lack of cooperation. She then told me "if you don't give us what we ask, we will limit your account and freeze your funds". She immediately froze my account and I had $1500 dollars in it. I realized that even though I could not withdraw money, I could still issue refunds so I refunded the money to the ebay buyer. I am trying to set up a merchant account so I can continue selling my coins on ebay. Are there any other alternatives? I have PCGS MS70 2008 W Platinum coins I want to sell. My EBAY ID is GUINZO1975. Sorry for the long post, any advice is appreciated.
I have been selling quite a lot of coins (Most graded PCGS 70) on ebay lately, in fact, my sales spiked up the last two months and unfortunately, it got the attention of Paypal. Anyway, I get an email from Paypal requesting the following information from me:
1) Bank statements
2) Credit Card Statements
3) Vendor/Supplier information
4) Proof of inventory
I called them back and told them that I am not a coin dealer and as such, I don't have any "vendors". I stated that I simply purchased coins from the US Mint and I sold them on ebay. I told the lady on the phone that I don't feel comfortable sending all my information to them (They already have two of my bank accounts, my social security number, address, credit cards, and telephone number). I further stated that they have no right to my bank statements and she didn't like my lack of cooperation. She then told me "if you don't give us what we ask, we will limit your account and freeze your funds". She immediately froze my account and I had $1500 dollars in it. I realized that even though I could not withdraw money, I could still issue refunds so I refunded the money to the ebay buyer. I am trying to set up a merchant account so I can continue selling my coins on ebay. Are there any other alternatives? I have PCGS MS70 2008 W Platinum coins I want to sell. My EBAY ID is GUINZO1975. Sorry for the long post, any advice is appreciated.
GUINZO1975
0
Comments
they froze your account or limited funds removal until feedback left or proof of delivery?
<< <i>Paypal likes to freeze accounts first and ask questions later >>
It's a great motivator.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
I would open a new paypal account and do my business from there. More than one paypal and ebay account is always a good idea for all sellers.
"A car is a tool that takes you from one place to another. Everything beyond that is a payment for other people's perception of you."
<<<<<I have PCGS MS70 2008 W Platinum coins I want to sell. My EBAY ID is GUINZO1975.
Sorry for the long post, any advice is appreciated. >>>>>
edited for quotation marks
<< <i>I sell over 100k on ebay/paypal each year and have never been asked for for bank statements, credit card statements, vendor information or proof of inventory. I sell from a personal account and not a business account. Are you sure the requests were from paypal? Sounds like a phishing scheme for personal information. Did you call a phone number that was provided in the email? Might not really be paypal. Their actual phone number is 18882211161. >>
same here. I have never been haggled by paypal before and i deal in excess of $100K a year
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
<< <i>My guess is if the account is frozen, then he was talking to paypal. >>
Agree. Paypal normally only starts questioning when there has been a problem with a transaction. High volume of transactions alone does not NORMALLY send a red flag to paypal. OP might not include all the facts.
"A car is a tool that takes you from one place to another. Everything beyond that is a payment for other people's perception of you."
<< <i>
<< <i>My guess is if the account is frozen, then he was talking to paypal. >>
Agree. Paypal normally only starts questioning when there has been a problem with a transaction. High volume of transactions alone does not NORMALLY send a red flag to paypal. OP might not include all the facts. >>
... or the OP went from $200/mo in sales for years to $50,000/mo in sales overnight.
<< <i>... or the OP went from $200/mo in sales for years to $50,000/mo in sales overnight. >>
As long as buyers are happy, paypal is happy (and making money).
I have noticed a rather large increase in ebay scams involving gold coins both as a buyer and a seller. I personally see paypal removing buyer/seller protection on precious metals at some point. They have absorbed over 8K in bad deals I was invovled with. I don't know if they were abel to recover it from the other party or not. Of course, they always take care of me as both a buyer and a seller. At some point, they might realize PM transactions are a money loser for them.
"A car is a tool that takes you from one place to another. Everything beyond that is a payment for other people's perception of you."
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>My guess is if the account is frozen, then he was talking to paypal. >>
Agree. Paypal normally only starts questioning when there has been a problem with a transaction. High volume of transactions alone does not NORMALLY send a red flag to paypal. OP might not include all the facts. >>
... or the OP went from $200/mo in sales for years to $50,000/mo in sales overnight. >>
possibly. I have always done high volume sales from the getgo, which might be why Ive never had a problem
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>My guess is if the account is frozen, then he was talking to paypal. >>
Agree. Paypal normally only starts questioning when there has been a problem with a transaction. High volume of transactions alone does not NORMALLY send a red flag to paypal. OP might not include all the facts. >>
... or the OP went from $200/mo in sales for years to $50,000/mo in sales overnight. >>
As long as buyers are happy, paypal is happy (and making money). >>
This happens at most financial institutions. If you use your ATM/Debit card and average $20/day and then you start spending $1000/day, your bank will call you. PayPal is a financial institutions and are protecting their interest and their clients interest.
Maybe if you were selling fakes from china you would still be ok. Ebay seems to be ok with that.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>They may freeze your funds for 180 days ( 6 months)
Maybe if you were selling fakes from china you would still be ok. Ebay seems to be ok with that. >>
Fakes from China - what fakes from China? eBay knows nothing of fakes being sold on their site.
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
<< <i>
<< <i>They may freeze your funds for 180 days ( 6 months)
Maybe if you were selling fakes from china you would still be ok. Ebay seems to be ok with that. >>
Fakes from China - what fakes from China? eBay knows nothing of fakes being sold on their site.
Paypal seems to have no problem with them as well and are willing to fight ( see Tiffany vs Ebay ) for the right to be the avenue of sale for these things.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>They may freeze your funds for 180 days ( 6 months). Maybe if you were selling fakes from china you would still be ok. Ebay seems to be ok with that. >>
This might just be an effort on paypal's part to fight the counterfeit problem. Why else would they be requesting supplier information?"
"A car is a tool that takes you from one place to another. Everything beyond that is a payment for other people's perception of you."
Even in the physical world, lots of fake businesses operate from Oct-Dec, and then disappear before returns come in January. That's why most banks don't lend to seasonal type businesses. Paypal may just be cautious at this time of year. It may be that some of EBay's famous "phone-book in a laptop box scams" occur now and they're just being proactive.
<< <i>FYI, Paypal is Not a Financial Institution, and it stuns me the amount of information people give them (including me) and trust them to protect.
Even in the physical world, lots of fake businesses operate from Oct-Dec, and then disappear before returns come in January. That's why most banks don't lend to seasonal type businesses. Paypal may just be cautious at this time of year. It may be that some of EBay's famous "phone-book in a laptop box scams" occur now and they're just being proactive. >>
IRS considers paypal a financial institution that processes on-line payments. That is why paypal is included in the 2011 tax change that requires financial institutions (including paypal) to report transactions to the IRS.
"A car is a tool that takes you from one place to another. Everything beyond that is a payment for other people's perception of you."
<< <i>
<< <i>They may freeze your funds for 180 days ( 6 months). Maybe if you were selling fakes from china you would still be ok. Ebay seems to be ok with that. >>
This might just be an effort on paypal's part to fight the counterfeit problem. Why else would they be requesting supplier information?" >>
I think not. Here's non coin but collectibles
Operation Bullpen
Operation Bullpen
It's been said this continues today.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>Give them what they ask for and move on. It took me an afternoon to do this several years ago. Never another word. --Jerry >>
Yep, I went through the same thing back in 2006.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>
<< <i>My guess is if the account is frozen, then he was talking to paypal. >>
Agree. Paypal normally only starts questioning when there has been a problem with a transaction. High volume of transactions alone does not NORMALLY send a red flag to paypal. OP might not include all the facts. >>
There doesn't need to be an issue. While a problem transaction may be the cause, a sudden velocity increase will also trigger this type of action from PayPal.
Russ, NCNE
"A car is a tool that takes you from one place to another. Everything beyond that is a payment for other people's perception of you."
<< <i>Russ, you had to actually fax them financial statements? >>
Bank statements, yes. Mine was triggered by a $10K plus withdrawal. The day after the transfer to my bank, I got the information demand notice.
For those who don't realize it, merchant accounts do exactly the same thing as PayPal. Unusual activity or a sudden spike in sales will trigger an inquiry.
Russ, NCNE
"A car is a tool that takes you from one place to another. Everything beyond that is a payment for other people's perception of you."
I have a 100% feedback rating and I sell mostly PCGS Graded coins. I've never had a buyer complaint before.
At the end of the day, paypal is protecting themselves first and foremost.
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
<< <i>Guys,
I have a 100% feedback rating and I sell mostly PCGS Graded coins. I've never had a buyer complaint before. >>
I am very happy for you, but if you read the replies to your post you will see that has nothing to do with it---------------------------------BigE
ANY increase/change in a seller's activities can result in a PP
or EBAY request for additional docs. This has been the case
for many years.
The best way to avoid the "180-day freeze" is to simply
furnish ALL docs requested.
Opening a PP MM account and using it as a partial sweep
account will usually keep PP from making repeated doc
requests.
................
Most common triggers for doc requests:
Sudden increase in dollar volume.
Sudden change of listing category; low-dollar to high-dollar.
Sudden entry into designer-fashion or electronics cats.
.................
To better understand what PP really is, one can read "The
PayPal Wars: Battles with eBay, the Media, the Mafia, and
the Rest of Planet Earth
PP Wars
be prepared to fax that stuff several times as they will "not get it, please fax it again" ... I've read on other message boards that this kind of stuff happens sometimes with them.
<< <i>...be prepared to fax that stuff several times as they will "not get it, please fax it again" ... I've read on other message boards that this kind of stuff happens sometimes with them. >>
////////////////////////
It happens frequently.
Docs should be faxed to the name of the PP/EBAY person that
the seller is dealing with. PP/EBAY will usually confirm receipt
via email or phone call; if they don't, sellers should call them
to confirm receipt.
The process can take from a day to several weeks, depending
on how complex the doc request is. Most docs are NOT put
thru any type of confirmation/validation check; some are.
(Scammers have burned the sites repeatedly by furnishing
fake docs.)
The process is speeded/slowed based largely on how polite/
impolite the seller is. Questioning the need for the process
is a SURE way to invite foot dragging and other retaliation.
Once the docs have been received/reviewed, PP/EBAY claims
they are destroyed. This "security measure" can also result
in future requests for the same docs.
Using a REAL merchant account is a good alt for sellers that
do sufficient volume to justify the expense. Requests for more
docs from MAs can be frequent, but they are usually handled
REAL fast and do not disrupt payment traffic.
<< <i>Using a REAL merchant account is a good alt for sellers that
do sufficient volume to justify the expense. >>
How much is sufficient volume in your estimation?
<< <i>
<< <i>...be prepared to fax that stuff several times as they will "not get it, please fax it again" ... I've read on other message boards that this kind of stuff happens sometimes with them. >>
////////////////////////
It happens frequently.
Docs should be faxed to the name of the PP/EBAY person that
the seller is dealing with. PP/EBAY will usually confirm receipt
via email or phone call; if they don't, sellers should call them
to confirm receipt.
The process can take from a day to several weeks, depending
on how complex the doc request is. Most docs are NOT put
thru any type of confirmation/validation check; some are.
(Scammers have burned the sites repeatedly by furnishing
fake docs.)
The process is speeded/slowed based largely on how polite/
impolite the seller is. Questioning the need for the process
is a SURE way to invite foot dragging and other retaliation.
Once the docs have been received/reviewed, PP/EBAY claims
they are destroyed. This "security measure" can also result
in future requests for the same docs.
Using a REAL merchant account is a good alt for sellers that
do sufficient volume to justify the expense. Requests for more
docs from MAs can be frequent, but they are usually handled
REAL fast and do not disrupt payment traffic. >>
They are ruthless! They put a tracer on a deposit I made of several thousand dollars. The money was in my savings account and they went into my checking and reversed the deposit! My stupid bank transferred money from my savings to the checking and Paypal illegally took the money out. They are vicious. These are coins I sold and the customers have my coins already! They are stealing my money. I cancelled all my credit cards associated with them. God forbid a little guy like me makes a few profits from 2008 coins. My customers are happy, ebay is happy, I WAS happy until Paypal ruined a good thing. This is retaliation on their part.
Seems kind of odd to me.
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
I transfer funds between accounts the old fashioned way... walking it from one bank to another. It's hard to reverse those.
follow all instructions
keep records.
document your actions so you can recite to them the date and time you performed such and such action.
remain calm.
do you own or rent? have you lived at the same address longer than the ebay and paypal account are old?
However, for best results, one needs to suck up to their needless torture. Perhaps saying you're sorry might be a good start.
(and they can't take it from a bank they don't know about. My PP balance is $0.00 and my bank account balance in the bank they know about is <$1.00. You need a second bank for PayPal.)
Replied via email and received a follow up call from a representative. Asked for her phone # to call her back (for security reasons).
My sales volume had increased about 20 fold (after 10 years), and I attracted their scrutiny.
20 minutes on the phone (mostly me asking questions) and the freeze was lifted. No big deal.
I've not since been contacted. Play in eBay's sandbox, you end up dealing with PP, like it or not.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
Apparently my earlier post was largely ignored. Too bad. I know of numerous sellers who continue to thrive on eBay, without giving homage to or being held captive by PayPig. Creative application can easily overcome dictatorial rule.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
<< <i>I got the woman's name who retaliated against me from Paypal and I just contacted the Federal Trade Commission and reported her and Paypal. >>
Paypal employees never give out their last name, it's against company policy. Something just doen't smell right.
"A car is a tool that takes you from one place to another. Everything beyond that is a payment for other people's perception of you."
<< <i>Paypal can pretty much do whatever they want. They operate with impunity and can access any account you have provided to them. They can access any checking account or even charge your credit card. I got the woman's name who retaliated against me from Paypal and I just contacted the Federal Trade Commission and reported her and Paypal. I was also advised to contact the State Attorney General's office and I reported Paypal with them also. This is America, not Communist Russia where they can do whatever they want. I did not waste my time calling Paypal, they are rude and don't care. Lets see what happens when the FTC and AG contact them. >>
I see, you didn't really want advice but wanted to tell us how you're going to kick their butt. Go get 'em Tiger. --Jerry
your auction history and listings reek of scam - which is what PAYPAL noticed
and they are covering their rears from chargebacks and fraud
if you are legit, you should be able to supply info
like vendors -> US Mint recepts, or emails with orders
and you must have submitted the coins to PCGS yourself, so a copy of email with grades/cert numbers
they just want to know where did you get these, since it is rather easy to lift photos off the internet
so whats the latest? did you give in?
<< <i>why did you turn the auctions private?
your auction history and listings reek of scam - which is what PAYPAL noticed
and they are covering their rears from chargebacks and fraud
if you are legit, you should be able to supply info
like vendors -> US Mint recepts, or emails with orders
and you must have submitted the coins to PCGS yourself, so a copy of email with grades/cert numbers
they just want to know where did you get these, since it is rather easy to lift photos off the internet
so whats the latest? did you give in? >>
<< <i>why did you turn the auctions private?
your auction history and listings reek of scam - which is what PAYPAL noticed
and they are covering their rears from chargebacks and fraud
if you are legit, you should be able to supply info
like vendors -> US Mint recepts, or emails with orders
and you must have submitted the coins to PCGS yourself, so a copy of email with grades/cert numbers
they just want to know where did you get these, since it is rather easy to lift photos off the internet
so whats the latest? did you give in? >>
First of all, I made the auctions private to protect the buyers. Its not anyone's business to know who made the high price purchases from me. Second of all, I don't see how my auctions reek of "scam" when I have 100% feedback rating, my photos are watermarked, and I sold PCGS Graded coins with the serial number clearly visible. I guess I am a real scam artist.
Paypal is a money transmitter, period. They allow me to accept payments for items sold on ebay. I supply tracking numbers, etc to my buyers.
To answer the other questions, I was not nice on the telephone, I used the F word quite often and they hung up on me. They attempted to withdraw $6000 dollars from my checking account and I had to put a stop payment on it. I guess I am the bad guy here according to you guys and I deserve everything I get. So I should just bend over and take it from Paypal and let them rape all my accounts for coins I sold. I guess I should just let the buyers keep my coins, and let paypal hold my money while I sit home with nothing.
I should be a good boy and give in to their demands and fax over the information which will get lost and they will continue to hold my funds.
I'd like to see how any of you would react if you sold coins and someone tried to steal money out of your checking account because they felt like it.
<< <i>but you better remain calm and polite.
follow all instructions
keep records.
document your actions so you can recite to them the date and time you performed such and such action.
remain calm.
Remain calm? that's not happening.
Keep records? I have them, but I don't feel like I have to share them with paypal when they have my social security number, 2 bank accounts and credit cards on file. In addition, they have my home address and phone number. Once again, paypal is not a bank, they are a money transmitter and your money is not FDIC insured. They are not the IRS so they have no right to check my bank accounts to see how much money I have in there. They also don't have any right to see my credit card statements. It is none of their business what I purchase with my credit cards. Last I checked, we had rights to privacy in America.
Paypal holding my money is extortion. I told them to close my account and I will not do any business with them. Guess what? they are still holding my money. You know what I did? I issued refunds to all my buyers. Since I could not withdraw the money, I refunded everyone. I guess, when I am a verified premier member, with over 500 positive feedbacks and 100% feedback rating, selling coins since 2006 poses a security risk for paypal.
All my coins were PCGS Graded. I'm not a guy from china selling fakes.
do you own or rent? have you lived at the same address longer than the ebay and paypal account are old? >>