I have made a HUGE mistake....LONG post
mumu
Posts: 1,840
This is more of a "come clean" kind of thread as I have made one of my all time blunders in the past 2 weeks. I am probably going to take some slack for it but it was fully my fault so I deserve it.
The short version is this. I sold something I did not have in hand and now the consigner has backed out and
I used the money to add inventory and equipment to what was suppose to be my business startup.
I am posting it here becasue I have been a buyer and seller and learner here on these forums which I
value very much and wanted to tell my side of the story before SHTF.
The longer version is this, and im expecting maybe 2 people max to read all of this.
I have been unemployed going on 2 years now and have been living off of
selling my collection acquired when things were better. Recently I moved out of state and began
to approach the end of my line selling my collection. The idea was to find a job asap, which hasnt
worked out so well, the area is pretty depressed. And secondly to make a business out of ebay
consignments and photography of valuables such as coins et cetera. For both of these I needed
inventory and equipment fast.
I found a fair amount of things to flip from antique stores but it is slim pickings as it seems a couple
of the pawn shops in the area get first crack at most people and I have also fouond out that other people doing this are pretty shark like, even here in little old northern wisconsin.
Seems people trust these guys more than some guy promising to sell on ebay and they like the insta cash better than wait 10 days for the auction even if it means
getting twice the money. One lady, gf's family member, for example took her coins to a buy for gold place instead of consigning with me and got ripped off but doesnt even care.
Anyway I found one off the beaten path antique shop where the guy was selling franklin halves
and washington quarters for 8-10x face. Silver was still at 20$ or so when I first found the guy.
I took all he had layed out on his counter. About 10$ face worth. I asked if he had more he said
no. I go back a week later and again he has about 10$ face worth on the counter. I buy them all
again, ask if he has any more he says no again. 2 weeks later, same story. I begin wondering
if this guy in fact has more and doesnt want to tell me for whatever reason. I buy what he has,
sold it on the BST here to a couple members. Sold some privately to some friends. All the while
silver is rising and this guys prices are still at 10x face. He doesnt seem to care or know the market price even when I hinted at
movement, he says he just wants to sell to album collectors and tells me my album should be pretty good by now.
So silver hits 24-28 and im wishing this guy had a million dollars in face silver. I had high suspisions
he had a hoard the way every week hed lay out the same kinda coins,usually in AU condition or better all with similar slate toning and wear.
So I stop in and make a sales pitch. I say look, I have a pefect ebay feedback and ive been buying your coins and selling them for a profit. There has been
a surge in price and demand and if you have more Id like to sell large lots. I will pay you 12x instead
of 10x and suddenly he admits he has been collecting silver coins for decades and has over 1000$
face value in franklin/kennedy halves and another 1000$ in mercury/roos dimes all in tubes and he showed me about 5 tubes in a drawer. He tells me he will still do it at 10x even though i offered 12.
Now before anyone calls me a crook at this point, let me say that the pawnshop guy was paying
25cents for merc dimes and selling them for 2$ a pop. So 10x face while a serious bargain for me, wasnt as bad as the pawn shop guy.
Anyway he had just sold $100 of the dimes for 10x to someone else and I thought well crap I need to act fast. I even told him how much Id make, which wasnt gonna be much as I wanted to move them quickly so I was goiung to go anywhere from 16.5 to 18x scaling whatever he had. He finally agrees and asks me how quickly I can move them if he lets me sell the halves. I tell him 2 weeks from list to pay to delivery. He gives me the green light and I list them over the course of 10 days and they all sell at about 30 seconds from listing them. One time the same single listing even had THREE buyers all pay at the exact same time(required insta pay) and my paypal account jumped to 5k on one listing of about 100$ face! Paypal called and we figured out what happend and they refunded the money to the later 2 buyers. Both of which contacted me angry of course but resolved.
Anyway I sold about 600$ face worth and was ready to stop by with some cash and pick up the coins. This was friday after thanksgiving. The guy was not around. I kept stopping by every other day and hes nowhere to be seen. I thought Ok no prob the holiday, who knows where he is. By the
3rd visit I started thinking, OK i better not list anymore of the 1000$, so I stopped at about 600.
Ok so here it gets hairy. In between all this I sold a diamond ring for a lady with a no return policy. In this case I had the ring in hand and shipped it and paid the lady upon receipt of ring by buyer.
Ring was measured twice before shipping and it was 100% a size 8. Buyer decides she doesnt want it and plays the old it was a size 7 game so wants her money back. I asked her to prove it
was a 7 as I knew it was an 8, and she then goes the SNAD route and ebay acepts it with no proof
and puts me out 300$. At this point i get scared and wonder if I will be getting an empty ring holder
back. I CANNOT afford to lose 300$. Then I get scared and think sh!t if the same happens with
one of the silver lots and end up with a box of rocks returned and im out 1500$ or more then im going to be homeless. Serious fear sets in for the first time in my life. I finally reach the old guy
with the hoard and I explain to him that the coins must be shipped and accepted before payment
is final and so I was only willing to give him a downpayment until the sale is final and that the risk
would have to be shared by both of us. The guy balks at this. Refuses to sell to me now and thinks I am trying to steal from him. Hes over 80yrs old so once hes made up his mind that im trying to scam him I could not talk sense into him. He kicks me out and tells me not to come back. At his point im beyond in a state of panic.
Now I cant even just give him the cash outright because I cant afford the risk of losing 1500$ or more on my own. I KNOW this is NOT the way to do consignments. But I have a super small window of oppotunity here. Believe me I wish I had the cash to just buy them outright and then sell them but i just didnt and couodnt take the risk on my own. I had maybe 800$ to my name which is earmarked for living for the next 3 months but at the same time i couldnt walk away from silver at 10x face. After selling them on ebay I had some cash for the guy and I also made some ebay purchases such as camera equip and other coins to flip with bad pictures, hoping to get more with good pictures et cetera, which ive done very well at. So now the problem became this, I now dont have any money in paypal to refund these buyers. I took the remaining money that was set for the guy bought some material to try and flip and will probably be able to get the 10k im in the hole for, but it will probably take another 2 weeks to do so. These buyers wont want to wait and if they file with paypal im gonna owe paypal the 10k, at which point my ebay will probably get shut off and I wont be able to move this material. This hasnt happened yet so I am hoping with an explanation I can work something out with paypal/ebay, though im sure the buyers are going to hose my feedback making it harder to make money even if they let me.
So thats abouot it. Its a bit of a ramble and I know at least a few people will call me a scammer or a crook. It was never my intent for it to play out this way, I just made one stupid mistake and then
compiled it by throwing more mistakes at it to make it worse in an attempt to fix it. If my intent was to scam I would have sold 1 gold coin and shipped a box of rocks with insurance, then played stupid and let it go quietly however it went arguing that i sent the coin. But I am not that. I have been trying for over a year here to learn how to make this work and have had many dealings with board members back and forth. Ive even sent out coins before payment was received a few times.
Before this ring ive only had one thing out of maybe 500 returned to me and that was a franklin halve in PCGS returned by braddick so I kinda fell into a false sense of security that what happened with the ring wouldnt happen. Im not sure what to do now. I have some stuff to move and will be listing it but im also afraid ebay/paypal will do something where if I sell stuff the money wont get applied to those buyers. I havent contacted them yet, trying to figure out what to tell them. I cant type all of this to them but maybe is should? Man I am so depressed right now over this.
The short version is this. I sold something I did not have in hand and now the consigner has backed out and
I used the money to add inventory and equipment to what was suppose to be my business startup.
I am posting it here becasue I have been a buyer and seller and learner here on these forums which I
value very much and wanted to tell my side of the story before SHTF.
The longer version is this, and im expecting maybe 2 people max to read all of this.
I have been unemployed going on 2 years now and have been living off of
selling my collection acquired when things were better. Recently I moved out of state and began
to approach the end of my line selling my collection. The idea was to find a job asap, which hasnt
worked out so well, the area is pretty depressed. And secondly to make a business out of ebay
consignments and photography of valuables such as coins et cetera. For both of these I needed
inventory and equipment fast.
I found a fair amount of things to flip from antique stores but it is slim pickings as it seems a couple
of the pawn shops in the area get first crack at most people and I have also fouond out that other people doing this are pretty shark like, even here in little old northern wisconsin.
Seems people trust these guys more than some guy promising to sell on ebay and they like the insta cash better than wait 10 days for the auction even if it means
getting twice the money. One lady, gf's family member, for example took her coins to a buy for gold place instead of consigning with me and got ripped off but doesnt even care.
Anyway I found one off the beaten path antique shop where the guy was selling franklin halves
and washington quarters for 8-10x face. Silver was still at 20$ or so when I first found the guy.
I took all he had layed out on his counter. About 10$ face worth. I asked if he had more he said
no. I go back a week later and again he has about 10$ face worth on the counter. I buy them all
again, ask if he has any more he says no again. 2 weeks later, same story. I begin wondering
if this guy in fact has more and doesnt want to tell me for whatever reason. I buy what he has,
sold it on the BST here to a couple members. Sold some privately to some friends. All the while
silver is rising and this guys prices are still at 10x face. He doesnt seem to care or know the market price even when I hinted at
movement, he says he just wants to sell to album collectors and tells me my album should be pretty good by now.
So silver hits 24-28 and im wishing this guy had a million dollars in face silver. I had high suspisions
he had a hoard the way every week hed lay out the same kinda coins,usually in AU condition or better all with similar slate toning and wear.
So I stop in and make a sales pitch. I say look, I have a pefect ebay feedback and ive been buying your coins and selling them for a profit. There has been
a surge in price and demand and if you have more Id like to sell large lots. I will pay you 12x instead
of 10x and suddenly he admits he has been collecting silver coins for decades and has over 1000$
face value in franklin/kennedy halves and another 1000$ in mercury/roos dimes all in tubes and he showed me about 5 tubes in a drawer. He tells me he will still do it at 10x even though i offered 12.
Now before anyone calls me a crook at this point, let me say that the pawnshop guy was paying
25cents for merc dimes and selling them for 2$ a pop. So 10x face while a serious bargain for me, wasnt as bad as the pawn shop guy.
Anyway he had just sold $100 of the dimes for 10x to someone else and I thought well crap I need to act fast. I even told him how much Id make, which wasnt gonna be much as I wanted to move them quickly so I was goiung to go anywhere from 16.5 to 18x scaling whatever he had. He finally agrees and asks me how quickly I can move them if he lets me sell the halves. I tell him 2 weeks from list to pay to delivery. He gives me the green light and I list them over the course of 10 days and they all sell at about 30 seconds from listing them. One time the same single listing even had THREE buyers all pay at the exact same time(required insta pay) and my paypal account jumped to 5k on one listing of about 100$ face! Paypal called and we figured out what happend and they refunded the money to the later 2 buyers. Both of which contacted me angry of course but resolved.
Anyway I sold about 600$ face worth and was ready to stop by with some cash and pick up the coins. This was friday after thanksgiving. The guy was not around. I kept stopping by every other day and hes nowhere to be seen. I thought Ok no prob the holiday, who knows where he is. By the
3rd visit I started thinking, OK i better not list anymore of the 1000$, so I stopped at about 600.
Ok so here it gets hairy. In between all this I sold a diamond ring for a lady with a no return policy. In this case I had the ring in hand and shipped it and paid the lady upon receipt of ring by buyer.
Ring was measured twice before shipping and it was 100% a size 8. Buyer decides she doesnt want it and plays the old it was a size 7 game so wants her money back. I asked her to prove it
was a 7 as I knew it was an 8, and she then goes the SNAD route and ebay acepts it with no proof
and puts me out 300$. At this point i get scared and wonder if I will be getting an empty ring holder
back. I CANNOT afford to lose 300$. Then I get scared and think sh!t if the same happens with
one of the silver lots and end up with a box of rocks returned and im out 1500$ or more then im going to be homeless. Serious fear sets in for the first time in my life. I finally reach the old guy
with the hoard and I explain to him that the coins must be shipped and accepted before payment
is final and so I was only willing to give him a downpayment until the sale is final and that the risk
would have to be shared by both of us. The guy balks at this. Refuses to sell to me now and thinks I am trying to steal from him. Hes over 80yrs old so once hes made up his mind that im trying to scam him I could not talk sense into him. He kicks me out and tells me not to come back. At his point im beyond in a state of panic.
Now I cant even just give him the cash outright because I cant afford the risk of losing 1500$ or more on my own. I KNOW this is NOT the way to do consignments. But I have a super small window of oppotunity here. Believe me I wish I had the cash to just buy them outright and then sell them but i just didnt and couodnt take the risk on my own. I had maybe 800$ to my name which is earmarked for living for the next 3 months but at the same time i couldnt walk away from silver at 10x face. After selling them on ebay I had some cash for the guy and I also made some ebay purchases such as camera equip and other coins to flip with bad pictures, hoping to get more with good pictures et cetera, which ive done very well at. So now the problem became this, I now dont have any money in paypal to refund these buyers. I took the remaining money that was set for the guy bought some material to try and flip and will probably be able to get the 10k im in the hole for, but it will probably take another 2 weeks to do so. These buyers wont want to wait and if they file with paypal im gonna owe paypal the 10k, at which point my ebay will probably get shut off and I wont be able to move this material. This hasnt happened yet so I am hoping with an explanation I can work something out with paypal/ebay, though im sure the buyers are going to hose my feedback making it harder to make money even if they let me.
So thats abouot it. Its a bit of a ramble and I know at least a few people will call me a scammer or a crook. It was never my intent for it to play out this way, I just made one stupid mistake and then
compiled it by throwing more mistakes at it to make it worse in an attempt to fix it. If my intent was to scam I would have sold 1 gold coin and shipped a box of rocks with insurance, then played stupid and let it go quietly however it went arguing that i sent the coin. But I am not that. I have been trying for over a year here to learn how to make this work and have had many dealings with board members back and forth. Ive even sent out coins before payment was received a few times.
Before this ring ive only had one thing out of maybe 500 returned to me and that was a franklin halve in PCGS returned by braddick so I kinda fell into a false sense of security that what happened with the ring wouldnt happen. Im not sure what to do now. I have some stuff to move and will be listing it but im also afraid ebay/paypal will do something where if I sell stuff the money wont get applied to those buyers. I havent contacted them yet, trying to figure out what to tell them. I cant type all of this to them but maybe is should? Man I am so depressed right now over this.
0
Comments
We'll use our hands and hearts and if we must we'll use our heads.
You're honest, but you made some big mistakes.
Trying to flip items and shuffle money around that you don't have IS a dangerous game.
Hope things work out and it's too bad you lost the 80 year old's hoard of silver.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
Rule #2: Never change the terms of the deal in midstream.
Just my eversohumble opinion.
Cheers,
Bob
Edited to add:
After reviewing your account of the situation, I'm understanding now that you were selling the junk silver without having physical possession of it. Why would you even think of doing so? You need to work a lot harder at patching your business relationship with the pawn shop owner, unless you think that he could have been the actual crook to begin with.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
I lost my job about 3 years ago and decided to open a B&M, Shop.
I took my inventory and savings and dove in.
What an eye opener that was, you can't believe all the cost accociated with owning a business!
Now on the bright side I am still in business.
I started with a small amount of junk and now have an excessive amount of junk. I mean junk everywhere. All the good coins sell like hot hot cakes.
I do not count on ebay, any one that does will have problems.
<< <i>Most if not all sellers of bullion type lots will clearly state in their terms and conditions that bullion oriented sales are absolutely final. Most, if not all buyers understand that premise. Hopefully eBay and Paypal have a clear understanding of that concept as well. I think you're projecting too much doom and gloom. Relax. It's the Holiday season. >>
I know but the ring was a gold item, similar principles, and they did not care. They took the 300$ right out and looked for no evidence. Just sent an email saying "We felt it was best to go back to square one". Now I havent gotten it back but i still run the chance I get an empty box back and ebay will probably screw me then too. So this all set fear into me on these silver lots. Not so much that a return might happen but maybe someone claiming I sent rocks and keeping the coins and the money. There is NO seller protection. I am now beyond the point of shipping the coins. The old guy wont deal with me anymore. He was sure I was trying to scam him. Im a big guy and from NJ so I can fully undersantd his thinking. I dont blame the old guy one bit. This was 100% my fault. I just hope ebay/paypal doesnt cut me off and sues me or presses charges at this point. If they will let me keep selling AND things go without a hitch, I should be able to get 5k of the $9500 back in there quickly without even taking a that much of a loss on my part. I still have some cash from what I was going to give the old guy and hope to flip that a little bit, doing it the right way, and pay off the rest. But I now fear 2 things, the bad feedbacks runing my ability to sell and even worse Paypal cutting me off completely until I pay, which will be tought without the ability to sell. Not everything I have is coins. I have anything from gold rings and chains to camera lenses and used electronics. But if i cant sell them on ebay i wont be able to get best value for it. UGH. I feel like outhauls avatar.
<< <i>You should not be doing these types of transactions with your experince level. There is no reason to sell common 90% on EBay. It just does not make sense after costs. And the fact you never figured out how you were going to deliver the product BEFORE you entered the transaction set you up for this challange. You must now eat the problem on eBay, and hope you find another goose like the store owner you had. All you had to do was sell your first $10 of face, take that money and keep buying more. At 10X you would be making a great profit and would have had a constant supply of frsh money to keep buying more. But you tried to "get it all" and is much the case you wound up with nothing. >>
I agree 100%. Classic killed the golden goose here. I see it very clearly that way.
Find a member of the community that would likely be held in high regard by the pawn shop owner. Establish a fully honest relationship with that person, with the upfront idea to them that you need their help in negotiating a resolution with the pawn shop owner, even if it costs you a substantial portion of your profit margin. Your credibility in the business community is far more critical right now than the comfort of a large profit margin, or the pain of a life changing financial loss. Sincerely, Good luck.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
Best of luck on your situation. I can empathize with the incentives at play here, and how they can drive one to emotional decisions.
Your refunds will go on your credit card and then you'll pay it off over time. Perhaps
that will help some, for the time being.
Got to get a job. Anything to bring some cash into the wallet.
I think that I'd walk back into the guys shop with my tail between my legs and a big
apology. Yes, you were using him. He probably knew that too. However, what you
need to do now is explain your dire circumstances so that he knows the truth and
plead for another chance. Be kind, thoughtful, and respectful. Most likely he'll give
you a second chance if you let it calm down a bit.
Older folks that him have a different set of values. Trust is a huge part of those values.
Handshakes go further than contracts. But, most are willing to give a 2nd chance to
someone that deserves the 2nd chance and perhaps he'll see that you meant no harm
to anyone. Maybe he'd agree to just bail you out for what you have into it.
Good luck mumu
bob
<< <i>My only advice to you mumu:
Find a member of the community that would likely be held in high regard by the pawn shop owner. Establish a fully honest relationship with that person, with the upfront idea to them that you need their help in negotiating a resolution with the pawn shop owner. Sincerely, Good luck. >>
I may still do that. I am going to ask my gf to go in and talk to him when she gets back from visiting family. but in the meantime, after he kicked me out, I went out and bought some stuff in hopes of making up for it because at some point time will be out of the picture. Those buyers wont want to wait a month while i sort this out. Especially given the product is bullion. Its a tough situation. I should have just given the guy all the money and rolled the dice. Well see when she gets back what she can do talking to him nicely. He probably wont assocaiate her with me right away though weve both been there together so maybe she can at least get in the door.
<< <i>This is more of a "come clean" kind of thread as I have made one of my all time blunders in the past 2 weeks. I am probably going to take some slack for it but it was fully my fault so I deserve it.
The short version is this. I sold something I did not have in hand and now the consigner has backed out and
I used the money to add inventory and equipment to what was suppose to be my business startup.
I am posting it here becasue I have been a buyer and seller and learner here on these forums which I
value very much and wanted to tell my side of the story before SHTF. I would imagine that many folks have sold items that did not have physical possession of and this can be a slippery slope. An excellent example is a pre-sale on ebay for US Mint products, but the US Mint is a bit different than the average consignor. Going through all the funds is a bit more difficult on you, though, since you left yourself with little or no margin for error.
The longer version is this, and im expecting maybe 2 people max to read all of this.
I have been unemployed going on 2 years now and have been living off of
selling my collection acquired when things were better. Recently I moved out of state and began
to approach the end of my line selling my collection. The idea was to find a job asap, which hasnt
worked out so well, the area is pretty depressed. And secondly to make a business out of ebay
consignments and photography of valuables such as coins et cetera. For both of these I needed
inventory and equipment fast. Well, at least one person has read the entire post. I would imagine that you have planned this ebay venture well before you began the immediate loss of all funds, but perhaps you didn't. If you did not plan well ahead then you really put yourself in trouble.
I found a fair amount of things to flip from antique stores but it is slim pickings as it seems a couple
of the pawn shops in the area get first crack at most people and I have also fouond out that other people doing this are pretty shark like, even here in little old northern wisconsin.
Seems people trust these guys more than some guy promising to sell on ebay and they like the insta cash better than wait 10 days for the auction even if it means
getting twice the money. One lady, gf's family member, for example took her coins to a buy for gold place instead of consigning with me and got ripped off but doesnt even care. Folks like pawn shops and other venues because they can sell immediately for good funds and at any time they need. Your business model requires that items be sold on your schedule so you are already behind the eight-ball with respect to most folks. The gold loss looks to be foolish on your part and the previous owners part since you could not turn the deal quick enough nor convince the owner of a good strategy.
Anyway I found one off the beaten path antique shop where the guy was selling franklin halves
and washington quarters for 8-10x face. Silver was still at 20$ or so when I first found the guy.
I took all he had layed out on his counter. About 10$ face worth. I asked if he had more he said
no. I go back a week later and again he has about 10$ face worth on the counter. I buy them all
again, ask if he has any more he says no again. 2 weeks later, same story. I begin wondering
if this guy in fact has more and doesnt want to tell me for whatever reason. I buy what he has,
sold it on the BST here to a couple members. Sold some privately to some friends. All the while
silver is rising and this guys prices are still at 10x face. He doesnt seem to care or know the market price even when I hinted at
movement, he says he just wants to sell to album collectors and tells me my album should be pretty good by now. You must have done well with buying if you purchased at least $30 face at 10x and sold it when silver was at $20/oz and could have received 14x or thereabouts at that level. True, you wouldn't get rich, but $300 turned into $420 is nice.
So silver hits 24-28 and im wishing this guy had a million dollars in face silver. I had high suspisions
he had a hoard the way every week hed lay out the same kinda coins,usually in AU condition or better all with similar slate toning and wear.
So I stop in and make a sales pitch. I say look, I have a pefect ebay feedback and ive been buying your coins and selling them for a profit. There has been
a surge in price and demand and if you have more Id like to sell large lots. I will pay you 12x instead
of 10x and suddenly he admits he has been collecting silver coins for decades and has over 1000$
face value in franklin/kennedy halves and another 1000$ in mercury/roos dimes all in tubes and he showed me about 5 tubes in a drawer. He tells me he will still do it at 10x even though i offered 12.
Now before anyone calls me a crook at this point, let me say that the pawnshop guy was paying
25cents for merc dimes and selling them for 2$ a pop. So 10x face while a serious bargain for me, wasnt as bad as the pawn shop guy. While you offered more than the owner accepted and definitely more than the pawn shop owner, I would not try to paint myself in a better light by referencing a truly bad deal.
Anyway he had just sold $100 of the dimes for 10x to someone else and I thought well crap I need to act fast. I even told him how much Id make, which wasnt gonna be much as I wanted to move them quickly so I was goiung to go anywhere from 16.5 to 18x scaling whatever he had. He finally agrees and asks me how quickly I can move them if he lets me sell the halves. I tell him 2 weeks from list to pay to delivery. He gives me the green light and I list them over the course of 10 days and they all sell at about 30 seconds from listing them. One time the same single listing even had THREE buyers all pay at the exact same time(required insta pay) and my paypal account jumped to 5k on one listing of about 100$ face! Paypal called and we figured out what happend and they refunded the money to the later 2 buyers. Both of which contacted me angry of course but resolved. You could have sold these on the BST in one afternoon without fees, so I am compltely baffled as to why you would rather go ebay.
Anyway I sold about 600$ face worth and was ready to stop by with some cash and pick up the coins. This was friday after thanksgiving. The guy was not around. I kept stopping by every other day and hes nowhere to be seen. I thought Ok no prob the holiday, who knows where he is. By the
3rd visit I started thinking, OK i better not list anymore of the 1000$, so I stopped at about 600.
Ok so here it gets hairy. In between all this I sold a diamond ring for a lady with a no return policy. In this case I had the ring in hand and shipped it and paid the lady upon receipt of ring by buyer.
Ring was measured twice before shipping and it was 100% a size 8. Buyer decides she doesnt want it and plays the old it was a size 7 game so wants her money back. I asked her to prove it
was a 7 as I knew it was an 8, and she then goes the SNAD route and ebay acepts it with no proof
and puts me out 300$. At this point i get scared and wonder if I will be getting an empty ring holder
back. I CANNOT afford to lose 300$. Then I get scared and think sh!t if the same happens with
one of the silver lots and end up with a box of rocks returned and im out 1500$ or more then im going to be homeless. Serious fear sets in for the first time in my life. I finally reach the old guy
with the hoard and I explain to him that the coins must be shipped and accepted before payment
is final and so I was only willing to give him a downpayment until the sale is final and that the risk
would have to be shared by both of us. The guy balks at this. Refuses to sell to me now and thinks I am trying to steal from him. Hes over 80yrs old so once hes made up his mind that im trying to scam him I could not talk sense into him. He kicks me out and tells me not to come back. At his point im beyond in a state of panic. You appear to have attempted to change the parameters of the agreement unilaterally after the sale, which would not make me happy if I were the consignor, either. Anyway, did you actually lose the $300 with the ring or did you receive it back? You have lost me with the reference to $1,500; is this just an example? It appears you sold $600 face at perhaps $26/oz for around $11,300 on ebay at this point.
Now I cant even just give him the cash outright because I cant afford the risk of losing 1500$ or more on my own. I KNOW this is NOT the way to do consignments. But I have a super small window of oppotunity here. Believe me I wish I had the cash to just buy them outright and then sell them but i just didnt and couodnt take the risk on my own. I had maybe 800$ to my name which is earmarked for living for the next 3 months but at the same time i couldnt walk away from silver at 10x face. After selling them on ebay I had some cash for the guy and I also made some ebay purchases such as camera equip and other coins to flip with bad pictures, hoping to get more with good pictures et cetera, which ive done very well at. So now the problem became this, I now dont have any money in paypal to refund these buyers. I took the remaining money that was set for the guy bought some material to try and flip and will probably be able to get the 10k im in the hole for, but it will probably take another 2 weeks to do so. These buyers wont want to wait and if they file with paypal im gonna owe paypal the 10k, at which point my ebay will probably get shut off and I wont be able to move this material. This hasnt happened yet so I am hoping with an explanation I can work something out with paypal/ebay, though im sure the buyers are going to hose my feedback making it harder to make money even if they let me. You've lost me again. After the consignor did not agree to the altered terms you then took all the money that the buyers gave you and spent it? Is this correct? You also expect that you can make all this money back by buying things to flip in two weeks? If you can, then please give me your magic forumula because that sounds like fantasy.
So thats abouot it. Its a bit of a ramble and I know at least a few people will call me a scammer or a crook. It was never my intent for it to play out this way, I just made one stupid mistake and then
compiled it by throwing more mistakes at it to make it worse in an attempt to fix it. If my intent was to scam I would have sold 1 gold coin and shipped a box of rocks with insurance, then played stupid and let it go quietly however it went arguing that i sent the coin. But I am not that. I have been trying for over a year here to learn how to make this work and have had many dealings with board members back and forth. Ive even sent out coins before payment was received a few times.
Before this ring ive only had one thing out of maybe 500 returned to me and that was a franklin halve in PCGS returned by braddick so I kinda fell into a false sense of security that what happened with the ring wouldnt happen. Im not sure what to do now. I have some stuff to move and will be listing it but im also afraid ebay/paypal will do something where if I sell stuff the money wont get applied to those buyers. I havent contacted them yet, trying to figure out what to tell them. I cant type all of this to them but maybe is should? Man I am so depressed right now over this. Why was the coin returned to you by braddick? In my experience with braddick, he must have had a valid reason. >>
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
<< <i>Like someone else said, you shouldn't have been trying to sell large lots of 90% common bullion coins on ebay, if you could get it for $10X you could have flipped it easy by going to a regional coin show or selling to Ampex(or whatever their name is) for a tidy little profit-and not have to worry about ebay/paypal issues- too risky now days. >>
I probably should have sold it here on the BST but since the end goal was to try and establish power seller on ebay for the sake of starting an ebay sonisgnment business i went that route. Im not saying it was the right idea, but that was my thinking at the time. I am going to try and visit the guy later today one more time.
roadrunner
Yes, I should have went BST, but wanted to get my ebay feedback and powerseller status up thinking long term that would be my venue since I am doing more thanjsut coins ideally.
The 1500$ was an example based in the size of the lots i sold thi guys hoard in. I did 7 transactions for about 600$ face at about 1500 each, average. If i had lost just one to the old bag of rocks claim that is what i would be out, 1500$ I had sold some other stuff so when all said and done ill be about $9500-10,000 in the hole. I spent most of it on materials I had eyed to buy with the profit on the other sale. I am now hoping to sell these quickly at a profit, even if smaller than what would have been to pay off the money. A mistake i know. I threw mistakes at the original mistake out of panic and i take full repsonisibilty for being an idiot here.
The braddick coin was a pcgs franklin half in pcgs 66. He said it was the only coin he has ever returned so he must have really not liked it. Though i dont think he feels it was mirpresented or anything. I think he may have thought it was a shot 67 then changed his mind? It was really a story to show that i had never really had many returns and had a false sense of security. That really had little to do with this otherwise.
<< <i>I attempted to read everything you wrote. It is in my understanding that you set specific terms with the old man that had all the silver. Basically in a nut shell you would list the items and as they sell pay him in full then ship it. Well when you change terms, you can except the deal to go down hill rather quickly. When you deal in this sort of business there is ALWAYS a risk of losing money, making money, and breaking even. Money wise you should be stable before you play this game. >>
I agreee with you but at the same time the guy was trying to dig himself out of a hole being unemployed for 2 years now...an opportunity presented itself and he had to improvise... but one mis-step can lead to another and i sincerely hope that you can work something out with the folks that you have to refund. The sooner you reach out the them the better. That way they would know that your working out a solution for all of these that unfortunately happened. Good Luck and don't lose hope!!!
Coinfame,Kaelasdad,Type2,UNLVino,MICHAELDIXON
Justacommeman,tydye,78saen,123cents,blue62vette,Segoja,Nibanny
<< <i>Thanks guys. For the record it was this friday that the guy tossed me out of his store so I am trying to move fast on this. I understand that I am holding up people's money so this post was to get some ideas and I plan on reaching out to the buyers by tonight or tomorrow. >>
Just curious how much do you owe this ol' timer? It would be good if you can bring him his money before you attempt to see him...
Coinfame,Kaelasdad,Type2,UNLVino,MICHAELDIXON
Justacommeman,tydye,78saen,123cents,blue62vette,Segoja,Nibanny
<< <i>
<< <i>I attempted to read everything you wrote. It is in my understanding that you set specific terms with the old man that had all the silver. Basically in a nut shell you would list the items and as they sell pay him in full then ship it. Well when you change terms, you can except the deal to go down hill rather quickly. When you deal in this sort of business there is ALWAYS a risk of losing money, making money, and breaking even. Money wise you should be stable before you play this game. >>
I agreee with you but at the same time the guy was trying to dig himself out of a hole being unemployed for 2 years now...an opportunity presented itself and he had to improvise... but one mis-step can lead to another and i sincerely hope that you can work something out with the folks that you have to refund. The sooner you
reach out the them the better. That way they would know that your working out a solution for all of these that unfortunately happened. Good Luck and don't lose hope!!! >>
+1...good luck, these financial times suck. Faced with homelessness, I am not sure what any of us would do until we walked a mile in your shoes. I would come clean with everyone, ask forgiveness, promise to turn over a new leaf as well as receive a second chance. If you're sincere, I think you will be surprised by how many people will be willing to help.
<< <i>I guess if you really want to make it right you better start selling off everything you own in order to pay your buyers back. >>
"
yes , not to hit you up when your down ; but I can make cash offers on any colorful PCGS Franklins you might sell
.......and , your avatar Peace Dollars too !
Why not post this one on the BST right now? Someone might just pick it up... Yes and your banner peace dollars and avatar coin as well...just my unsolicited two cents.
Coinfame,Kaelasdad,Type2,UNLVino,MICHAELDIXON
Justacommeman,tydye,78saen,123cents,blue62vette,Segoja,Nibanny
<< <i>The braddick coin was a pcgs franklin half in pcgs 66.<<<<<<<<
Why not post this one on the BST right now? Someone might just pick it up... Yes and your banner peace dollars and avatar coin as well...just my unsolicited two cents.
I have had that franklin on the BST and it didnt sell. I am going to put together a bst firesale in the next day or 2 here. I joined PCGS and NGC not long ago to get some raw coins into slabs for better value so some of those might be a few weeks but I have some things for the BST. I have gotten a lot of offers for help by buying my stuff in PM and I thank you guys for that so I will link the bst thread once its ready with pics. I dont have high end material. I am a small timer here so dont expect much more than dreck peace dollars and such. My "biggest coin" is that potential problem raped bust half which is headed to NGC soon. If that one turns out to be a strike thru it could go a long way towards taking a chunk out of this problem so hopefully that works out.
If I can do something let me know. I hope holiday spirit helps you along.
Lance.
and send message to buyers saying
'item on consignment and supplier decided to back out'
or did you already spend the PAYPAL money?
EAC 6024
<< <i>can you refund money and say items no longer available
and send message to buyers saying
'item on consignment and supplier decided to back out'
or did you already spend the PAYPAL money? >>
yes...he spent the money.. that's why we have the problem we face.
You sold items you did not have and spent the money.
<< <i>If I read all of that right your toast on eBay and very likely PayPal will be bringing crimmial charges.
You sold items you did not have and spent the money.
I hate to agree with you because mumu seems like an honest guy who wants to make this all right, but, I think you're right.
Mumu, why would you spend money that isn't yours? What I would have done after receiving the money was bring it to the 80 year old man, give him his cut, and take yours and then send out the items. That would have been the most honest approach in my opinion.. Good luck
<< <i>If I read all of that right your toast on eBay and very likely PayPal will be bringing crimmial charges.
You sold items you did not have and spent the money.
Great...i was starting to feel positive about resolving this until this post.
I didnt think this was any differnet than pre-sale items from the mint. I myself have been told stuff was out of stock after paying for it. I didnt spend all the money. I just dont have all of it. I thought I could buy other items for resale. That decision was made out of panic.
<< <i>Anyone know the best way to contact paypal about this? >>
Call them right now via their 800 number. I still don't see a pleasent outcome over this. This is a lot of money and can be considered Grand Larceny if the Police want to get involved, which they probably will unless you can come up with the money.
edit to add: I would contact an attorney first thing tomorrow and go over your options with him. Unless you can recover this money, you're going to have a lot of angry people complaining to Paypal and then Paypal will file charges based on the amount (Since they don't want to eat that kind of loss). How much are we out, total again?
<< <i>
<< <i>Anyone know the best way to contact paypal about this? >>
Call them right now via their 800 number. I still don't see a pleasent outcome over this. This is a lot of money and can be considered Grand Larceny if the Police want to get involved, which they probably will unless you can come up with the money.
edit to add: I would contact an attorney first thing tomorrow and go over your options with him. Unless you can recover this money, you're going to have a lot of angry people complaining to Paypal and then Paypal will file charges based on the amount (Since they don't want to eat that kind of loss). How much are we out, total again? >>
Im not sure which part of anything ive posted makes you think I can afford an attorney unless i use the very money i have left over from paypal and even then....
Its about 9500$ most of which I can cover in sales if they allow me to. I guess its time to find a friend for a loan or just hang myself in the shower.
<< <i>"
<< <i>I guess if you really want to make it right you better start selling off everything you own in order to pay your buyers back. >>
"
yes , not to hit you up when your down ; but I can make cash offers on any colorful PCGS Franklins you might sell
.......and , your avatar Peace Dollars too ! >>
if you have generic 90 silver, I'd be interested in some as well.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Anyone know the best way to contact paypal about this? >>
Call them right now via their 800 number. I still don't see a pleasent outcome over this. This is a lot of money and can be considered Grand Larceny if the Police want to get involved, which they probably will unless you can come up with the money.
edit to add: I would contact an attorney first thing tomorrow and go over your options with him. Unless you can recover this money, you're going to have a lot of angry people complaining to Paypal and then Paypal will file charges based on the amount (Since they don't want to eat that kind of loss). How much are we out, total again? >>
Im not sure which part of anything ive posted makes you think I can afford an attorney unless i use the very money i have left over from paypal and even then....
Its about 9500$ most of which I can cover in sales if they allow me to. I guess its time to find a friend for a loan or just hang myself in the shower. >>
I wouldn't "hang yourself in the shower", that's not what any of us here are suggesting. Sometimes you can call an attorney and ask them for advice for free.
<< <i>3 of those peace dollars have been sold btw. The other 2 wont get me anywhere near and dont want to lose them. I have higher priced inventory I am going to try and move quickly and see what I can do. If paypal would give me a month I think the total owed will be under 3k and the rest I can grind out or borrow. I just dont know how to go about asking for this time period from paypal. Im sending my gf in with some money once she gets back to try and make good on the 90% but that wont be for 10 days. >>
That reply was a good start to rectifying this. I think Paypal would be okay with taking the hit on the buyer's behalf and then you paying them back within the time you need. Take the pain off the buyers and put it on Paypal, then make good with Paypal. Problem solved! Call them and tell them this and I'm sure it'll be fine.
<< <i>3 of those peace dollars have been sold btw. The other 2 wont get me anywhere near and dont want to lose them. I have higher priced inventory I am going to try and move quickly and see what I can do. If paypal would give me a month I think the total owed will be under 3k and the rest I can grind out or borrow. I just dont know how to go about asking for this time period from paypal. Im sending my gf in with some money once she gets back to try and make good on the 90% but that wont be for 10 days. >>
I'm not going to give you a hard time for what has happened since I don't think you had planned on doing this to other folks. However, once you put yourself in this position you essentially made all your coins available for sale if you want to make it right with those you have gone into transactions with via PayPal.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
<< <i>
<< <i>3 of those peace dollars have been sold btw. The other 2 wont get me anywhere near and dont want to lose them. I have higher priced inventory I am going to try and move quickly and see what I can do. If paypal would give me a month I think the total owed will be under 3k and the rest I can grind out or borrow. I just dont know how to go about asking for this time period from paypal. Im sending my gf in with some money once she gets back to try and make good on the 90% but that wont be for 10 days. >>
I'm not going to give you a hard time for what has happened since I don't think you had planned on doing this to other folks. However, once you put yourself in this position you essentially made all your coins available for sale if you want to make it right with those you have gone into transactions with via PayPal. >>
Well If i had a job I wouldnt have as much of a problem arranging a payback but I also need to be able to survive this ordeal beyond just the money owed. I cant liquidate what I have without some profit or else im homeless in which case I might as well just go to jail and at least solve that problem.
bst fire sale
I know that if I had bought junk silver from you last week I would want to have it in my hands this week to turn. If I didn't have it feedback would be a negative. And I would be filing a charge back on the sale.
So that is what I see happening very shortly in this case. So if your back up funding for PayPal will carry you might weather the storm, if not a new direction may be in order.
Good luck and if the worst happens see that attorney being legally pro active can save the day some times.
<< <i>I guess if you really want to make it right you better start selling off everything you own in order to pay your buyers back. >>
I have to agree.