Reducing PCGS counterfeits on ebay
derryb
Posts: 38,551 ✭✭✭✭✭
My suggestion to PCGS:
Because of PCGS's large presence on ebay, HR Hall should arrange with ebay the authority for PCGS to phone in a PCGS counterfeit and have ebay pull it on the spot. PCGS should create a new forum on these boards for members to post suspected ebay listings involving PCGS slabs. PCGS would monitor the forum and if it is obvious to PCGS that the slab is not authentic, have ebay pull it. PCGS would also need to respond to the post with a "Reported to ebay" or an "Unable to determine authenticity" (meaning they didn't have it pulled) to reduce the subsequent posts on the existing thread and the overreporting to PCGS of the same slab.
I believe this would reduce the number of PCGS counterfeits on ebay and would enable PCGS to have it done quickly. The resources required by PCGS to accomplish this would be minimal and the value of valid PCGS slabs would be less threatened.
Comments?
Because of PCGS's large presence on ebay, HR Hall should arrange with ebay the authority for PCGS to phone in a PCGS counterfeit and have ebay pull it on the spot. PCGS should create a new forum on these boards for members to post suspected ebay listings involving PCGS slabs. PCGS would monitor the forum and if it is obvious to PCGS that the slab is not authentic, have ebay pull it. PCGS would also need to respond to the post with a "Reported to ebay" or an "Unable to determine authenticity" (meaning they didn't have it pulled) to reduce the subsequent posts on the existing thread and the overreporting to PCGS of the same slab.
I believe this would reduce the number of PCGS counterfeits on ebay and would enable PCGS to have it done quickly. The resources required by PCGS to accomplish this would be minimal and the value of valid PCGS slabs would be less threatened.
Comments?
Velocity, Not Valuation Defines A Bubble.
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Comments
I think the issue on the current thread is the seller is selling coins that are probably not owned by the seller.
<< <i>^Good idea for counterfeits.
I think the issue on the current thread is the seller is selling coins that are probably not owned by the seller. >>
True, but one of the referenced seller's coin is a 1907 EX-HR $20 Lettered Edge with a population of 1. Surely the wearabouts of that coin are known by someone at PCGS.
Velocity, Not Valuation Defines A Bubble.
with Ebay under the VERO trademark rights program. Companies are able to delete listings almost instantly, and often
are given administrative privileges where they can nuke auctions in real time. Why isn't PCGS protecting consumers and the
value of their own business by being on this list?
List of Trademark Holders under eBay VERO program
Doggie Bow Ties? COME ON, PCGS!
Velocity, Not Valuation Defines A Bubble.
<< <i>It's all about the $$$$$. Someone's time will be needed to do this. Someone will have to pay for that time. >>
I'm sure there's a marketing formula somewhere that would convince PCGS that there is $$ value in proceeding.
Velocity, Not Valuation Defines A Bubble.
<< <i>
<< <i>It's all about the $$$$$. Someone's time will be needed to do this. Someone will have to pay for that time. >>
I'm sure there's a marketing formula somewhere that would convince PCGS that there is $$ value in proceeding. >>
Key word there being "convince"
<< <i>
I'm sure there's a marketing formula somewhere that would convince PCGS that there is $$ value in proceeding. >>
Then we don't need the formula if you already know the result is that PCGS should be taking action. But I don't think the business decision is that clear.
PCGS would have to budget to staff such an endeavor and the legal ramifications would have to be investigated and maintained. One bad call could cost a lot of money on an expensive coin.
I believe PCGS's interest would be mostly fakes, not knowing where all the low pop coins with stolen photos are located.
In the case of Gucci et al, actual fakes were/are a huge threat to the core of their business. PCGS business is much less threatened. First the number of fake slabs is order's of magnitude lower than fake handbags and crystal. Second, each PCGS slab is serial numbered which adds a layer of protection. Third, the collecting community can self police much better than the handbag buyers association.
I think ebay will have to continue to lead the effort toward scammers selling things they don't on (like the pr69 saint on ebay today). PCGS could help on occasional unique coins like this one but a random $5000 coin pulled from Heritage archives would take PCGS just as much time to research as anyone else.
--Jerry
<< <i>
<< <i>
I'm sure there's a marketing formula somewhere that would convince PCGS that there is $$ value in proceeding. >>
Then we don't need the formula if you already know the result is that PCGS should be taking action. But I don't think the business decision is that clear.
PCGS would have to budget to staff such an endeavor and the legal ramifications would have to be investigated and maintained. One bad call could cost a lot of money on an expensive coin.
I believe PCGS's interest would be mostly fakes, not knowing where all the low pop coins with stolen photos are located.
In the case of Gucci et al, actual fakes were/are a huge threat to the core of their business. PCGS business is much less threatened. First the number of fake slabs is order's of magnitude lower than fake handbags and crystal. Second, each PCGS slab is serial numbered which adds a layer of protection. Third, the collecting community can self police much better than the handbag buyers association.
I think ebay will have to continue to lead the effort toward scammers selling things they don't on (like the pr69 saint on ebay today). PCGS could help on occasional unique coins like this one but a random $5000 coin pulled from Heritage archives would take PCGS just as much time to research as anyone else.
--Jerry >>
Excellent point outside of the fact most collectors (as people do in general) react on emotion rather than statistics. Once the PCGS brand is tainted to a point where it is not as trusted then confidence crumbles. Loyalty and trust is eroded with each advancing report of more and more of these counterfeit slabs entering the market. It is then difficult to gain back.
CU members should continue to be vigilant in reporting suspect auctions. ebay does take action.
While I think the OP's suggestion is thoughtful and forthright, it is unnecessary if the larger membership speaks up.
ebay is not without its faults. But it is not nearly as cold-hearted as many seem to feel. Thousands of auctions close every minute. Fraud and deceit, with regard to valuable collectibles, happen across hundreds of specialities from handbags to antiques. ebay cannot possibly maintain expertise and manage auction integrity without the help of its community. If we speak up we can stop the damage criminals are doing to our hobby.
JMHO,
Lance.
Velocity, Not Valuation Defines A Bubble.
<< <i>there's a big difference between an ebayer reporting a counterfeit slab and the holder of the trademark reporting the same counterfeit slab. Which one do you think will be taken more seriously and acted upon quicker? >>
I don't think PCGS can manage the workload, do you?
Lance.