Why do "OGH's" sell for a premium
NewParadigm
Posts: 1,322
Do they have a good shot of an upgrade? Pardon my, what seems to others, obvious question.
0
Comments
We'll use our hands and hearts and if we must we'll use our heads.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 700
Not explained well but I hope I got my point across.
Ron
An old holder may now be the ONLY gaurantee of copper stability, particularly since PCGS eliminated their copper color gaurantee. PCGS is the best at determining copper originality, leagues ahead of NGC, leagues, but they can still make mistakes. In my experience mistakes usually begin to show themselves within a year (for sure within 5) with mellowing of the color/luster on the high points and in the exposed fields. A coin that's been in the holder for 15 years will surely reveal any hinkle pinkle that occured with the coin prior to slabbing - including fingerprinting that can take a long time to develop.
And isn't it true that old holders did not attribute full bell line franklins?
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
By a humongous factor, collectors and dealers looked at the OGH slabs FIRST.
So aside from all the good answers given below, there is the added demand for the OGH slabs because the buyer always seek them out first.
But I must add that they are disappearing from the various dealer and collector inventories rapidly.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Because many buyers can't tell the difference between a conservatively graded coin in such a holder, and one that is ho-hum (or worse)
It's all about the coin, as it well should be.
Again IMHO, the early PCGS grading was very conservative to reflect this market. An MS-65 had to be a premium MS-65 to get slabbed at that grade. I remember being at a show in late 1986 or early 1987 and offering David Hall, face-to-face, a Morgan dollar that he had previously sold as an MS-65, and being told that it was not an MS-65 any more.
Yet again IMHO, eventually grading standards relaxed slightly to reflect the standards long established by ANACS. Some would say that they have relaxed still further in recent years, but that is open to debate.
TD
I think that if a OGH coin was upgradble it probably wouldn't be in a OGH any longer? At this point I would guess that coins that remain
in OGH's are suitable to there assigned grades?
There's always the exception but for the most part I feel like
if a coin in a OGH was upgradable than it would of fell victim
to curiosity and been cracked out and resubmitted or just resubmitted for a regrade. So at some point the idea may of
had some validity but with ever passing day the likelihood
of finding a upgradable OGH becomes less likely.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Of my seven goldies, five were OGHs.
I agree as withs others here.
1. Grading was (generally) more conservative
2. Coin originality with fewer coin doctors around back then. ( Did I say fewer)
3. The neato factor
4. They sell faster and for more money (generally)
100% Positive BST transactions
To Barndog's point
<< <i>speaking of ANACS, I like finding early ANACS slabs with the alpha-numeric serial number. Some conservative grades to be found in that dwindling lot of slabs for sure. >>
A collector-turned-dealer just started setting up at our monthly show, and he had a lot various coins in old slabs by various TPG's (I bought two OGH coins, among others). But he had a beautifully toned AU58 all-day-long bust half dime in an old ANACs holder that was graded AU50. Trying to keep a poker face when I inquired about it, I was disappointed when he priced well into MS money.
<< <i>Good thread, lots of good inputs. I certainly regret now cracking out the slabbed coins I had purchased ~20 years ago.
To Barndog's point
<< <i>speaking of ANACS, I like finding early ANACS slabs with the alpha-numeric serial number. Some conservative grades to be found in that dwindling lot of slabs for sure. >>
A collector-turned-dealer just started setting up at our monthly show, and he had a lot various coins in old slabs by various TPG's (I bought two OGH coins, among others). But he had a beautifully toned AU58 all-day-long bust half dime in an old ANACs holder that was graded AU50. Trying to keep a poker face when I inquired about it, I was disappointed when he priced well into MS money. >>
don't you hate it when dealers either know what they have or think they know what they have? I like it better when they just read the label
<< <i>Also, it guarantees that the coin has stayed the same (not reacted to air) for a good decade or two. This is especially important with gold pieces. >>
Actually, gold coins are less likely to react than silver, bronze and nickel ones. The most frequently encountered problem with gold coins is the application of putty, which later turns.
Why do "OGH's" sell for a premium....because people believe they are conservatively graded and will have a good chance to upgrade.
Yes, there are. They just don't come around very often.
<< <i>Also, it guarantees that the coin has stayed the same (not reacted to air) for a good decade or two. This is especially important with gold pieces. >>
Slabs are not air tight. Air enters and leaves a slab whenever there is a change in the barometric pressure.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>speaking of ANACS, I like finding early ANACS slabs with the alpha-numeric serial number. Some conservative grades to be found in that dwindling lot of slabs for sure. >>
Most of my ANACS coins have alpa-numeric cert numbers as well, but they arn't in slabs.
<< <i>Also, it guarantees that the coin has stayed the same (not reacted to air) for a good decade or two. This is especially important with gold pieces. >>
This is incorrect unless you know exactly what the coin looked like upon initial certification and encapsulation in the OGH. Since this would be the case only for folks who did the initial submission, for those who examined the coins during initial submission or for coins with terrific images from the time of encapsulation it means that only a very small fraction of coins would have the statement applicable to them. All other coins might have changed dramatically from the time of encapsulation in an OGH and the new buyer might have no clue as to that fact.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Most old holders are not worth a premium, especially all the common date issues. It is unfortunate many sellers use the old holder gimmick as justification to ask for a higher price when they're selling.
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
<< <i>Why do "OGH's" sell for a premium >>
Not all of them do.
But most of these have been cracked out and resubmitted.
You'll also find OGH coins that are overgraded too, especially ones that are MS60 to MS62 grades, which I find sometimes come with very light hairlines, that if graded today would be bodybagged (or graded 'Genuine').
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
<< <i>There has been some mention of a green or gold bean in this thread and the five gold beans I have received have been for four OGH coins and one blue insert coin.
Of my seven goldies, five were OGHs. >>
Two-thirds of my PCGS Gold bean coins are OGH. Maybe I was better at choosing PQ pieces, when I bought the Gold bean coins back in the early nineties. I reholder any of my new purchases whenever the holders look too marked up for me, so I don't know about the reliability of that 2/3 Gold bean.
When I see I coin I might want, and it is in an OGH, I admit I take a closer look at the coin.
<< <i>I have seen just as many dogs in OGH as newer style holders.
I think that if a OGH coin was upgradble it probably wouldn't be in a OGH any longer? At this point I would guess that coins that remain
in OGH's are suitable to there assigned grades?
There's always the exception but for the most part I feel like
if a coin in a OGH was upgradable than it would of fell victim
to curiosity and been cracked out and resubmitted or just resubmitted for a regrade. So at some point the idea may of
had some validity but with ever passing day the likelihood
of finding a upgradable OGH becomes less likely. >>
Why regrade a coin when there is only maybe a $20 difference in grades and it costs at least that to upgrade?
<< <i>I think it is pretty well recognized that most of the upgrades have already been done. I think the premium now is just for nostalgia and stability. Given 2 equal coins, I'll take the one in the OGH over the new holder but only for a slight premium. --Jerry >>
Why regrade a coin when there is only maybe a $20 difference in grades and it costs at least that to upgrade?
To the point of the OP . . . all has been mentioned and is absolutely accurate. The OGH represents the 'thought' that conservative grading (not necessarily an upgrade) was in effect, and therefor value is more certain. I think that numerous posts over the last 10 years here have emphasized that many of the OGH coins that had significant 'spreads' to the next higher grade have been 'tried' already. Still, there are undoubtedly collections that come out of Gramps safety deposit box that haven't seen thi light of day in 15 years, and we all hope to be the first to the table on that fateful day when some local-yokel dealer blows those Doilies out at $10 over GSB. Of course, my ultimate dream is the local B&M dealer offering me an NGC box of 'Blacks' at Ask . . . . . .
Oh well . .
Drunner
Yes, there are. They just don't come around very often.
Guaranteed upgrade! But I love the OGH too much to crack it.
That is an awesome OYH! LOL.
Those are getting very popular as a distinct subgroup of the OGH!
<< <i>SeattleSlammer:
That is an awesome OYH! LOL.
Those are getting very popular as a distinct subgroup of the OGH! >>
The faded green turned yellow? That holder is quite common, but the version with the "alignment" pins is said to be scarcer tho I have seen quite a few for sale recently.
what I wonder is:
is it more appropriate to just avoid mention of slab types in an auction description, lumping all OGHs together,
or should a reference be made to what generation/type of OGH a holder is,
or should it just be buyer beware?
Personally, I think some mention should be made of slab type in the case of these older holders.
<< <i>yessir, that is one heckuva Morgan.
what I wonder is:
is it more appropriate to just avoid mention of slab types in an auction description, lumping all OGHs together,
or should a reference be made to what generation/type of OGH a holder is,
or should it just be buyer beware?
Personally, I think some mention should be made of slab type in the case of these older holders. >>
Only refer to the generation/type if you are sure that you know what it is.
<< <i><< yessir, that is one heckuva Morgan. what I wonder is: is it more appropriate to just avoid mention of slab types in an auction description, lumping all OGHs together, or should a reference be made to what generation/type of OGH a holder is, or should it just be buyer beware? Personally, I think some mention should be made of slab type in the case of these older holders. >> >>
Sometimes saying nothing is more enticing to the buyer as they think the seller has no clue about the holder. In an auction setting that could be the ultimate hype. LOL.
<< <i>I know nicer looking RB and RD copper coins in old green holders will sell for a premium because collectors know those coins weren't messed with in well over a decade and are more likely to trust that the color and look of the coin is stable vs. a newly holdered coin. This is important because PCGS recently dropped the guarantee they used to have on copper color. >>
Speaking as a red and red/brown copper collector, this sums it up nicely. I and others would pay a premium knowing that the color and surfaces are un-messedwith and stable as they've been entombed for 15+ years. The allure that it has been conservatively graded is a bonus.
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase/2819
some of the first generation holders and there where a lot of great
coins just waiting to be graded in the early years often the best people had. That could help explain some of the phenomenon?
<< <i>I think one thing that had not been mentioned is OGH where
some of the first generation holders and there where a lot of great
coins just waiting to be graded in the early years often the best people had. That could help explain some of the phenomenon? >>
This is an excellent thought. When PCGS first started, logically people would have sent in there perceived best coins first. Years later when the slabs started changing, many of the coins these original submitters would have left in their collections were the 2nd tier coins (under the theory that people submit in waves over time which seems common amongst these boards)....
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase/2819