How does one rule out a Lincoln as being a matte proof?

mr1931S · September 24, 2010 7:19AM

I have this raw 1912 Lincoln,which I bought as uncirculated,that is absolutely fully struck.There is no weakness anywhere in any of the letters.I compare it to some pics of slabbed matte proof Lincolns currently for sale on ebay and can't see any difference of my coin with these.

How can I positively rule out that my coin is a matte proof without sending it to a grading service?

guitarwes · September 24, 2010 7:19AM

diagnostics

lsica · September 24, 2010 7:32AM

square rims, baybeeeee. First thing to look at

lkeigwin · September 24, 2010 7:37AM

Nice MS 1912's can be found, and some look very strong. Here's one from my set. It does not have MPL rims.
Lance.

WaterSport · September 24, 2010 11:45AM

1912 Diagnostics

Unfortunately the pictures are gone, but the descriptions are still good.

WS

robec · September 24, 2010 2:30PM

That's a beautiful MS 1912 Lance. Not many MPL's look that good.

ambro51 · September 24, 2010 10:08PM

When you look at Lances '12, you see exactly what you will NOT see on a MPL. Not to take anything away from that coin...but....the matte proof will not show what that coin does. You wont see irregular patterns in the fields, you wont see the inverted bust of lincoln visible on the reverse through the field patterns, you wont see that line joining the wreath bottoms.

1912 matties have a tendency to show green on the coin. Many of this year laid for decades in the original mint tissue, and this caused chemical reactions to occur. Of course, if the coin has been stripped..this will no longer apply.

Heres one I once owned.

CoinCrazyPA · September 24, 2010 11:05PM

Nice squared rev rims like all mattes have.

lkeigwin · September 24, 2010 11:14PM

To really appreciate the squared rims from photos, the coins should be imaged raw. Take a look at some Trueviews of MPLs.

Bob (robec) has some wonderful ones. Click on the link in his sig.
Lance.

BUFFNIXX · October 11, 2010 9:09PM

I have noticed any number of so-called matte proof lincoln cents being offered on ebay that are nothing more than nice well struck uncs. case in point is a 1909 cent that just sold on ebay for about $275. The coin was obviously not a proof, the rims were rounded and not squared off. I even emailed the seller, who was a dealer, and told him why I was certain the coin was not a proof. But, he insisted that this coin was a proof and that it HAD ALL THE MARKERS off a matte proof. To the informed collector this coin was nothing more than a nice business strike. And in another case someone was selling his grandpappy's collection and he had a nice 1915 business strike that he was offering as a matte proof. I told him that it was not a matte proof and even went so far as to send him photos from the Heritage auction archives of a real 1915 matte proof cent with the thick squarted rims. He claimed up and down that his coin had to be a proof because it was included in an album with some Indian Head cents that were proofs!! He got over six hundred dollars for that one. I told him that he could send it to the seller and the seller would, like his granddaddy, have to determine on his own whether or not it it a proof. (He was given a three day return priviledge ) If he just sticks it in his Dansco Lincoln Cent album then all is fine and you are home free. But do not be surprised if he comes back at you howling and screaming in a month when the coin comes back from ngc or pcgs as a business strike.
What seems to make matters worse for collectors is that there are a lot of Lincoln cents out there that were struck from discarded matte proof dies. I have had some of these and they are very attractive, having matte surfaces but not fully rounded rims. I called that matte prooflike and I think that is the correct terminology for them. But anyway you slice it there are still a lot of uncs being offered as proofs to the uninformed. The sheeple will always be shorn when there is money to be made.
buffnixx

ambro51 · October 11, 2010 10:21PM

I dont think it has ever been actually determined that old matte proof dies were used for any circulation strikes.

You can only go so far warning, cajoling, urging, educating, chastising sellers/buyers on what is, and what is not, a matte proof from photographs.

Even experts have had difficulty until the current well known series of diagnostics has been put down in print and on the internet.

FunwithMPL · October 11, 2010 10:28PM

Mr1874
Diagontics and you can find then in the old booklet from the ANA titled Counterfeit Detection Volume II. It has all the dates of matte proof Lincoln's diagontics in it along with other key dates such as the
!909-S VDB and the 1922 PLain. You can find the booklet on E-Bay just make sure that it is Volume II.

How does one rule out a Lincoln as being a matte proof?

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