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will the PCGS 'sniffer' reject a coin that has been acetoned?

tahoe98tahoe98 Posts: 11,388 ✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum

...i was reading an article in NN and it was about the PCGS technology for detecting doctored coins. it went on to

say how they now have the know-how for detecting organic substances and one of the examples that was listed

was acetone. first of all i didn't know acetone was organic and second, does this mean if a coin submitted has been

dipped in acetone before sending it in it will be 'suspect' and dubbed cleaned? please enlighten me. image
"government is not reason, it is not eloquence-it is a force! like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." George Washington

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    PTVETTERPTVETTER Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭✭✭
    that is a great question!
    Pat Vetter,Mercury Dime registry set,1938 Proof set registry,Pat & BJ Coins:724-325-7211


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    bushmaster8bushmaster8 Posts: 5,616 ✭
    Does the sniffer detect organicssssss? yes

    Is acetone organic? yes

    Would there be any acetone left on the coin by the time it got to the sniffer? Not a chance! Acetone is extremely volatile and evaporates very quickly. If it is pure acetone it will leave no detectable residue.

    And you can take that to the bank!
    "Wars are really ugly! They're dirty
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    I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
    Mary






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    tahoe98tahoe98 Posts: 11,388 ✭✭✭

    ...WELL GREG!! i think i'll head for the bank! image
    "government is not reason, it is not eloquence-it is a force! like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." George Washington
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    robkoolrobkool Posts: 5,934 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You should have no problem using 100% pure acetone.
    Ebay items for sale Current BIN's / The Kingdom Collection
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    fivecentsfivecents Posts: 11,207 ✭✭✭✭✭
    PCGS does not care to sniff acetone.image
    Acetone is considered legit by the TPGS.
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    tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,656 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>PCGS does not care to sniff acetone.image
    Acetone is considered legit by the TPGS. >>



    100% correct. I asked Don Willis about this at Vegas.
    Early Dollar Set
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    rheddenrhedden Posts: 6,650 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think the sniffer is designed to identify foreign substances left on the surface of a coin: oil on the cheek of a baggy Morgan, putty on a gold coin, lacquer, etc. If an acetone-rinsed coin fails the sniffer test, I'd guess there is something else adhering to its surface.
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    CoinCrazyPACoinCrazyPA Posts: 2,899 ✭✭✭✭
    Mr. Willis already replied in another thread about this and the sniffer is not programmed to sniff acetone.
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    7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 7,993 ✭✭✭✭✭
    OK, not to nerd on this too much but there WILL be small residual of acetone left on the surface; whether it is too small to measure or if it is even measured is another question which has been addressed above.

    Adetone as a molecule has a hydrocarbon "backbone" and so does qualify as an organic.
    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
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    TevaTeva Posts: 830 ✭
    Right now I do not think the sniffer is in use and if it is
    it is only being used for secure grading.
    The last update I got said they where still working the bugs out of the sniffer and I got the impression it was not in use yet.
    I posted the same question a month ago and got the same answers.
    Give the laziest man the toughest job and he will find the easiest way to get it done.
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    Type2Type2 Posts: 13,985 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I thought Don said in A sniffer post that was posted here some time ago. That it will not kick out coins that are diped in Acetone. image


    Hoard the keys.
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    airplanenutairplanenut Posts: 22,733 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Keep in mind that acetone itself can't really hurt a coin. It's best use is to dissolve organic compounds, such as PVC that has leeched onto a coin. If successful, the coin will be fully rid of both the PVC and acetone; if not, only additional PVC should stay, which is a substance that should also be detected.

    Since acetone can't change the metal (it's not corrosive like some other cleaning compounds), the only damage that could result from using it would be if the user also made use of something like a cloth to wipe off the substance being removed. In that case, hairlines would be imparted to indicate a cleaning, but the acetone itself isn't responsible.
    JK Coin Photography - eBay Consignments | High Quality Photos | LOW Prices | 20% of Consignment Proceeds Go to Pancreatic Cancer Research
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    clackamasclackamas Posts: 5,615 ✭
    Could this take BB for PVC to an entire new level? Now it pretty much has to be visible, but with the sniffer, it may just have to be present.
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    JapanJohnJapanJohn Posts: 2,030 ✭


    << <i>Does the sniffer detect organicssssss? yes

    Is acetone organic? yes

    Would there be any acetone left on the coin by the time it got to the sniffer? Not a chance! Acetone is extremely volatile and evaporates very quickly. If it is pure acetone it will leave no detectable residue.

    And you can take that to the bank! >>



    100% concur. I used to train people in aircraft fuel cell entry and gas free engineering. The most accurate "sniffer" on the market is made by a company called RAESystems and a solvent such as acetone is going to evaporate and become undetectable after a pretty short period of time. More so than most solvents in fact.

    John
    Coin Photos

    Never view my other linked pages. They aren't coin related.
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    tahoe98tahoe98 Posts: 11,388 ✭✭✭

    ...i can't help wondering how many collectors are chewing their nails and waiting for the results from a submission

    KNOWING they themselves dipped their coin JUST before they sent it in. being nervous that maybe just maybe they

    didn't rinse it well enough and got 'sniffed' into oblivion! image

    "government is not reason, it is not eloquence-it is a force! like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." George Washington
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    coolestcoolest Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭


    << <i>You should have no problem using 100% pure acetone. >>



    Not easy to find.

    most acetone is low grade and you will see some residue when it evaporates.
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    tahoe98tahoe98 Posts: 11,388 ✭✭✭

    ...home depot has it.
    "government is not reason, it is not eloquence-it is a force! like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." George Washington
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    cmerlo1cmerlo1 Posts: 8,062 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>...home depot has it. >>



    Agreed. I buy it there, and I've used it on a lot of coins. It works great and has NEVER caused any damage or other ill effect.
    You Suck! Awarded 6/2008- 1901-O Micro O Morgan, 8/2008- 1878 VAM-123 Morgan, 9/2022 1888-O VAM-1B3 H8 Morgan | Senior Regional Representative- ANACS Coin Grading. Posted opinions on coins are my own, and are not an official ANACS opinion.
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    TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 45,093 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If it smells like a duck and it quacks like a duck, it probably won't be chicken. Try it image

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    Steve27Steve27 Posts: 13,284 ✭✭✭
    Unless the acetone is slowly outgassing from putty placed on the coin, you have nothing to worry about.
    "It's far easier to fight for principles, than to live up to them." Adlai Stevenson
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    JapanJohnJapanJohn Posts: 2,030 ✭
    One thing about Acetone. It sometimes says on the label "Acetone, Technical".

    Technical indicates that it is good for industrial applications. It also indicates that a certain amount of contaminants can be present.

    Shouldn't be an issue at all for coin dipping but I've never dipped a coin so I'm not speaking from experience.

    John
    Coin Photos

    Never view my other linked pages. They aren't coin related.
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    coindeucecoindeuce Posts: 13,515 ✭✭✭✭✭
    As others have suggested here, use of a commercial grade of pure acetone should not affect the exposure of a coin to the "Sniffer". I would not recommend ever using an acetone based commercial nail polish remover though. These products contain emollients among other additives, which if present on the surface of a coin would likely be detected by the "Sniffer".

    "Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
    http://www.american-legacy-coins.com

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