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Standard Silver pattern overstrike error-lots of eyes missed this one!
golddustin
Posts: 838 ✭✭
I have about 3 dozen Standard Silver pattern coins from 1869-1870....I was looking thru them a few days ago, and paused when I got to this one, a Judd-900 1870 25c in silver. I remember that the Heritage description was 'heavily clashed dies', so I took a little extra time to examine the coin with a 10X loupe.
Much to my surprise (and delight) the coin is not a result of clashed dies, but it is an overstrike of the planchet - flipped in the collar and restruck, it appears to me. What caught my eye first was what looked like a bow from a wreath right at the top of Miss Liberty's headband, and then the downward radiating lines on the obverse that looked like a wreath. When I flipped the coin over, sure enough, on the reverse I could make out 'UNITED STATES OF AMERICA' from about 9 o'clock to 3 o'clock - the words are in that order, but upside down. At the top of the reverse, superimposed on the word 'STANDARD' is the scroll from the obverse that holds the motto 'IN GOD WE TRUST' - and there are other faint signs of the obverse design showing thru on the reverse.
So, this coin was slabbed in a PCGS PR64 holder, with no indication of a striking error, and the folks at Heritage simply described it as struck from heavily clashed dies - but nobody took the time to look closely at the surfaces! The coin was lot #1755 in the 2008 Summer Fun auction (#1110), and you can see Heritage's photos & description at their archives.
I have been trying to get some decent photos to show the overstrike, but it is very hard, since most of the strike is so faint. But I will post a few photos that show the evidence.
This first shot shows what caught my eye - the bow at the top of the headband (and remnants of the wreath) on the obverse -
Text
This pic is of the reverse, showing some of the tops of the letters along the bottom edge of the coin - what shows the best is 'STATES', but again, the letters are upside down.
Text
You can see a bit of the ribbon at the top of the reverse on the previous pic, and here is another that shows the ribbon pretty well (right under the word 'standard')
Text
Anyway, I plan on resubmitting under the 'error' category - any error specialists care to give me the technical term for what happened to this coin?
Thanks,
Chuck
PS - I didn't enter anything into the text box, so click on the text link to see the photos!
Much to my surprise (and delight) the coin is not a result of clashed dies, but it is an overstrike of the planchet - flipped in the collar and restruck, it appears to me. What caught my eye first was what looked like a bow from a wreath right at the top of Miss Liberty's headband, and then the downward radiating lines on the obverse that looked like a wreath. When I flipped the coin over, sure enough, on the reverse I could make out 'UNITED STATES OF AMERICA' from about 9 o'clock to 3 o'clock - the words are in that order, but upside down. At the top of the reverse, superimposed on the word 'STANDARD' is the scroll from the obverse that holds the motto 'IN GOD WE TRUST' - and there are other faint signs of the obverse design showing thru on the reverse.
So, this coin was slabbed in a PCGS PR64 holder, with no indication of a striking error, and the folks at Heritage simply described it as struck from heavily clashed dies - but nobody took the time to look closely at the surfaces! The coin was lot #1755 in the 2008 Summer Fun auction (#1110), and you can see Heritage's photos & description at their archives.
I have been trying to get some decent photos to show the overstrike, but it is very hard, since most of the strike is so faint. But I will post a few photos that show the evidence.
This first shot shows what caught my eye - the bow at the top of the headband (and remnants of the wreath) on the obverse -
Text
This pic is of the reverse, showing some of the tops of the letters along the bottom edge of the coin - what shows the best is 'STATES', but again, the letters are upside down.
Text
You can see a bit of the ribbon at the top of the reverse on the previous pic, and here is another that shows the ribbon pretty well (right under the word 'standard')
Text
Anyway, I plan on resubmitting under the 'error' category - any error specialists care to give me the technical term for what happened to this coin?
Thanks,
Chuck
PS - I didn't enter anything into the text box, so click on the text link to see the photos!
Don't you know that it's worth
every treasure on Earth
to be young at heart?
And as rich as you are,
it's much better by far,
to be young at heart!
every treasure on Earth
to be young at heart?
And as rich as you are,
it's much better by far,
to be young at heart!
0
Comments
TD
www.brunkauctions.com
How cool is it that the coin was cherried right out of a regular auction!
Ed. S.
(EJS)
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
It sure has been a while - I must have missed you at the last couple of PAN shows. You will get to render a first hand opinion on it.
A couple more thoughts - the die clash is a possibility ( and I guess 'heavy' would be the correct term) because the image is a mirror, and the reverse image is upside down, as you would expect if the dies smacked each other....but the strike is very strong for that particular obverse design - all of 'liberty' is brought up well, which is fairly unusual. I would think that this coin is PR-65/66 easy without the chatter caused by the mis-striking. There are some areas in the lettering of the final strike that appear to show slight doubling....
Also, could it have been the last J-900 struck from that die pair? I know that with the shenanigans going on at the mint at the time, it could have been made in a hurry to be sold out the back door, and there are no other coins in this series (that I am aware of) with the same surface.
When I look at the Heritage pictures, the reverse shows the overstrike (clash) much better than my photos.
So maybe it would not qualify as an 'error' coin after all?
every treasure on Earth
to be young at heart?
And as rich as you are,
it's much better by far,
to be young at heart!
Resubmit as 'error' or under a regular submission and see what the coin is given? I still think it warrants a higher grade than PR64 - it's a very strong strike, considering it was either overstruck or subjected to heavily clashed dies.
Thanks!
every treasure on Earth
to be young at heart?
And as rich as you are,
it's much better by far,
to be young at heart!
Quarter Patterns - I don't believe it's a
Double Strike, but my recollection is that
they are Die Scratches - could be Clashed
Dies, but I'd have to see better scans.
(this is from the 1974 Pattern Collection
the company I worked for at the time,
Numismatics, Ltd., Bev. Hills, that we
purchased, and I cataloged for sale, from
Abe Kosoff.
If you submit it under the Mint Error Tier,
make a note on the actual submission FLIP
that you believe it's a D/S, and the coin will
be looked at very carefully.
I recall Major Lenox Lohr had assembled a small grouping of Standard Silver error patterns but all the quarters where struck in copper.
I was hoping to hear from you. Interesting that you should mention die scratches - there are marks that appear to be die filings on Miss Liberty's neck. That's the only place that they appear, and they definitely appear to be 'as struck' - any reason why that area of the die design would be filed? Or, maybe they just didn't bother polishing them out, because again, it was the last or one of the last coins to be struck from that die pair, which were already clashed.
I remember seeing a Standard Silver 25c in copper with both die clashing and a double strike some years ago - I think it was on Heritage - I'll have to do some research thru their archives to find it. Maybe it was from the same series.
Thanks Again,
Chuck
every treasure on Earth
to be young at heart?
And as rich as you are,
it's much better by far,
to be young at heart!
<< <i>I remember seeing a Standard Silver 25c in copper with both die clashing and a double strike some years ago - I think it was on Heritage - I'll have to do some research thru their archives to find it. Maybe it was from the same series. >>
Yes Heritage and also check the archives at David Lawrence as they also offered one in the last 5 years.
why the 'marks' are in those areas.....I've
seen die clashes, die gauges, die scratches,
etc., over just about all areas of (different)
coin's surfaces....
Also, just for info, I'm leaving in a short bit
to go to the Long Beach show, so I won't
be able to reply to anything till Sunday or
Monday.....
Fred