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What year is considered to be the year moderns began
kimber45ACP
Posts: 2,399 ✭✭✭
I have heard several dates:
After 1935
After 1950
After 1964
When did they begin and why is that date used?
Thanks
After 1935
After 1950
After 1964
When did they begin and why is that date used?
Thanks
0
Comments
...i've heard after 64 also. i guess it depends who (or is it whom) you talk to. one thing for sure. ALL coins were modern
at one time.
1934 is sometimes used as another "beginning" year. The Greysheet begins its BU roll quotes with 1934, and lists it as the beginning year of several "short sets". This was the first depression year in which coinage resumed on a large scale - 1930 to 1933 saw numerous gaps in various denominations.
1941 is also used as the beginning for many "short sets".
I'm not aware of 1950/1951 being used as a dividing line for moderns.
Given that, anything with a dead president OR those coins minted after 1965 could be considered a Modern.
The name is LEE!
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
roadrunner
There is no general agreement on this subject.
I don't think "Moderns" began in 1964 because I consider Washington Quarters, Roosevelt Dimes, Franklin Halves, and wheat-less cents to all be moderns.
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Word.
<< <i>For US coins, 1836, because of the first regular use of a steam press, instead of a human-powered screw press
Word. >>
What he said...
The First Modern Issue for nickels cam with the 1938 Jefferson Release.
The First Modern Issue for dimes came with the 1946 Roosevelt Release.
The First Modern Issue for quarters came with the 1932 Washington Release.
The First Modern Issue for half dollars came with the Kennedy Release.
The First Modern Issue for dollars came with the Eisenhower Release.
None of these coin designs represent classic coin design with regard to depictions of LIBERTY as was the primary focus for coin design prior to the Modern designs.
I personally see no other descriptive definitions as all were at one time or another, fully available at any banking institution for face value.
However, if the definition rests upon popularity or metal content or relative value, then folks could certainly entertain other definitions. I choose not to classify them that way but instead classify them according to design. The introduction of Abraham Lincoln on the Cent in 1909 was a radical departure from conventional (i.e. classic) depictions of LIBERTY on America's coinage. I see no other definitions making any sense at all.
All "Moderns" were issued to commemorate Presidents.
Addition info:
From the US Treasury Dept's Website:
"History of the Lincoln Cent
When the Lincoln one-cent coin made its initial appearance in 1909, it marked a radical departure from the accepted styling of United States coins, introducing as it did for the first time a portrait coin in the regular series. A strong feeling had prevailed against using portraits on our coins, but public sentiment stemming from the 100th anniversary celebration of Abraham Lincoln's birth proved stronger than the long-standing prejudice."
The name is LEE!
Compared to the pyramids though all coins are modern.
rainbowroosie April 1, 2003
1969 for Lincoln cents. This is when the 'small head' Lincoln design was first used, and was much lower relief as well.
1965 for everything else.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Other 19th century designs continued until 1909 to 1921.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907/publishedset/15628
March of Time - 27 Centuries in Gold
https://coins.www.collectors-society.com/WCM/CoinCustomSetView.aspx?s=36590
<< <i>
<< <i>For US coins, 1836, because of the first regular use of a steam press, instead of a human-powered screw press
Word. >>
What he said... >>
But...due to collecting pursuits, I have to amend that to 1838.
QN
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<< <i>Another vote for 1965 when clad junk replaced silver. >>
I agree but think there were numerous changes in 1965 that were far more important than
the silver going the way of the horse and buggy to be replaced by clad junk. The biggest sin-
gle change was the change in point of view of the hobby that caused so many massive changes
in behavior. People quit saving new coins or even collecting them. Whitman didn't even make a
folder to hold clads until 1986. People simply scorned circulating coinage and this scorn was a big
part of the reason that very few new collectors appeared between 1965 and 1998.
The coinage act of 1965 made many more subtle changes as well that have all coincided to lead
to the a situation that we have today.
If the only change were the loss of silver in circulation 1965 would not stand out so much.
"Money does not care about speeches on morality. Capital asks whether the rules will remain the same tomorrow. With inflation, people assume price is the problem, and propose regulation—but price is simply the message." - Martin Armstrong
<< <i>A Lincoln is a modern issue regardless of when it was produced. It actually represents the first coin which could be considered a "Modern Design" issue.
The First Modern Issue for nickels cam with the 1938 Jefferson Release.
The First Modern Issue for dimes came with the 1946 Roosevelt Release.
The First Modern Issue for quarters came with the 1932 Washington Release.
The First Modern Issue for half dollars came with the Kennedy Release.
The First Modern Issue for dollars came with the Eisenhower Release.
None of these coin designs represent classic coin design with regard to depictions of LIBERTY as was the primary focus for coin design prior to the Modern designs.
I personally see no other descriptive definitions as all were at one time or another, fully available at any banking institution for face value.
However, if the definition rests upon popularity or metal content or relative value, then folks could certainly entertain other definitions. I choose not to classify them that way but instead classify them according to design. The introduction of Abraham Lincoln on the Cent in 1909 was a radical departure from conventional (i.e. classic) depictions of LIBERTY on America's coinage. I see no other definitions making any sense at all.
All "Moderns" were issued to commemorate Presidents.
Addition info:
From the US Treasury Dept's Website:
"History of the Lincoln Cent
When the Lincoln one-cent coin made its initial appearance in 1909, it marked a radical departure from the accepted styling of United States coins, introducing as it did for the first time a portrait coin in the regular series. A strong feeling had prevailed against using portraits on our coins, but public sentiment stemming from the 100th anniversary celebration of Abraham Lincoln's birth proved stronger than the long-standing prejudice." >>
The only one I see differently than Lee's list would be 1948 for the half dollar. Franklin was not a president, but he was one of our forefathers.
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>
<< <i>1054 - When Patriarch Michael Cerularius and Pope Leo IX excommunicated each other at the "OK Coral." >>
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Nothing a little Vatican II can't take care of. 1965.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
The beginning of Moderns was in 1909 with the end of the Indian Cent and it culminated in 1935 with ending the Peace Dollar.
Dollars are modern as of 1971 with the Ike Dollar.
Half Dollars in 1964 with the JFK.
Quarters and Dimes in 1965 with the clad.
Nickels in 1965 with design improvements.
Cents in 1982 with the zinc charge.
But, I also think there should be more that just a classic and modern which I term post-classic.
These I think are all the coins not identified above as modern that have real people on them so that would push "Classic" back to the Indian Cent, Buffalo Nickel, Mercury Dime, SL Quarter, FL Half and the Peace Dollar.
There is a group called the Colonials and should also have a post-Colonials category.
I also think that the Modern category ended in:
1999 for the Cent
2004 for the nickel
Continues for the Dime
1999 for the Quarter
Continues for the Half
2007 for the Dollar
I would term this latest category as Transitional Modern.
Production
Design
Clad
among others
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
I would say 1965 on coins and 1963 on paper.
<< <i>For those who said 1965. What's the difference between a 1964 and a 1965 Lincoln cent? It's the same difference as a 1960 is to a 1961. >>
People saved about 15,000,000 1964 cents and the number was increasing
every year for the past 20 years. They saved about 1,000,000 1965 cents
and the number trended downward for a while.
You can still find three or four old cent collections that end at 1964 for every-
one that goes past 1964.
1836 Totally
Steam - End of the horse and buggy. Internal Combustion Era.
1839 Totalli-er and Totalissimus. Year a Costanza invents Festivus
Gold and silver all denimination designs change this year or next
Never one to discount technology, but I am excited much more by the broader influences of history, economics, politics and culture...
<< <i>I think the strongest case can be made for 1965. 1956 ? PCGS picks that? What is so special about that year?
Just a WAG, but perhaps PCGS picked that date in 2006 and went back 50 years.
The 1950 date cited in the OP probably comes from the fact that all world coins, which by definition include U.S. coins, used to be catalogued by Craig numbers, which ran from 1850 to 1950, and by Yeoman numbers, which ran from 1950 to date. This system was made obsolete by the Krause number system.
TD
<< <i>For those who said 1965. What's the difference between a 1964 and a 1965 Lincoln cent? It's the same difference as a 1960 is to a 1961. >>
Maybe you missed my post.
So many perspectives and dates are given, I think the distinction is a non-event. Nonetheless, I would add one more. It has seemed to me in my more limited experience with coins that the "modern" is an artifact of when the US Mint began minting coins FOR collectors (or, at least, with some accomodation of collector demand). Whenever the collector demand began interfering with the coin supply in the marketplace and the mint responded by increasing production is the date I would be searching for. Cladking may have an idea about when that was. I'm guessing it would be in the 50's.
<< <i>
<< <i>A Lincoln is a modern issue regardless of when it was produced. It actually represents the first coin which could be considered a "Modern Design" issue.
The First Modern Issue for nickels cam with the 1938 Jefferson Release.
The First Modern Issue for dimes came with the 1946 Roosevelt Release.
The First Modern Issue for quarters came with the 1932 Washington Release.
The First Modern Issue for half dollars came with the Kennedy Release.
The First Modern Issue for dollars came with the Eisenhower Release.
None of these coin designs represent classic coin design with regard to depictions of LIBERTY as was the primary focus for coin design prior to the Modern designs.
I personally see no other descriptive definitions as all were at one time or another, fully available at any banking institution for face value.
However, if the definition rests upon popularity or metal content or relative value, then folks could certainly entertain other definitions. I choose not to classify them that way but instead classify them according to design. The introduction of Abraham Lincoln on the Cent in 1909 was a radical departure from conventional (i.e. classic) depictions of LIBERTY on America's coinage. I see no other definitions making any sense at all.
All "Moderns" were issued to commemorate Presidents.
Addition info:
From the US Treasury Dept's Website:
"History of the Lincoln Cent
When the Lincoln one-cent coin made its initial appearance in 1909, it marked a radical departure from the accepted styling of United States coins, introducing as it did for the first time a portrait coin in the regular series. A strong feeling had prevailed against using portraits on our coins, but public sentiment stemming from the 100th anniversary celebration of Abraham Lincoln's birth proved stronger than the long-standing prejudice." >>
The only one I see differently than Lee's list would be 1948 for the half dollar. Franklin was not a president, but he was one of our forefathers. >>
I thought about it but sometimes, you just gotta say WTH!
The name is LEE!
<< <i>1907 - the year the Liberty Head design was discontinued on US gold.
Other 19th century designs continued until 1909 to 1921. >>
Some 1908 half eagles were made with the Liberty Head design.
<< <i>For those who said 1965. What's the difference between a 1964 and a 1965 Lincoln cent? It's the same difference as a 1960 is to a 1961. >>
1965 cents were the first Lincolns to be struck without mintmarks, regardless of where they were minted. Proofs were available for 1964 but not for 1965. "Special Mint Set" cents were available for 1965 but not for 1964.
1965 was a huge transition year for collectors, which you had to live through to thoroughly appreciate. The whole hobby of coin collecting was under attack by various government officials, who blamed collectors for the "coin shortage," leading to the infamous date freeze, temporary end of mintmarks, and discontinuance of proof sets. The overheated market for BU rolls crashed around the same time, in part because of this misdirected hostility towards the hobby. There was even talk for a while of striking coins without dates. It took several years to work through these issues, and during this time collecting wasn't nearly as much fun.
<< <i>The introduction of Abraham Lincoln on the Cent in 1909 was a radical departure from conventional (i.e. classic) depictions of LIBERTY on America's coinage. I see no other definitions making any sense at all.
All "Moderns" were issued to commemorate Presidents.
Addition info:
From the US Treasury Dept's Website:
"History of the Lincoln Cent
When the Lincoln one-cent coin made its initial appearance in 1909, it marked a radical departure from the accepted styling of United States coins, introducing as it did for the first time a portrait coin in the regular series. A strong feeling had prevailed against using portraits on our coins, but public sentiment stemming from the 100th anniversary celebration of Abraham Lincoln's birth proved stronger than the long-standing prejudice." >>
The US Government thinks 1909?
I can appreciate the neo-Liberty's....ASE, AGE and FS Liberty's but they pale in comparison to the classics. It's all about the relief....