I'm sure this Ike will sell to some knowledgable Ike guy!
segoja
Posts: 6,141 ✭✭✭✭
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segoja
Posts: 6,141 ✭✭✭✭
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and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
peacockcoins
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Lookin' to snag a big 'un!
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
In other words, it's the second IKE Prototype to surface. I've not seen the coin in hand but its graded MS66 whereas my coin was graded PF64.
I don't think the owner, who does hail from Alabama, is serious about selling but you just never know.
I had, and still do, entertain thoughts of putting mine up for $100K but only to get some exposure as I doubt that folks would seriously pay $100K.
Both coins need more time, research, and exposure before they will ever see their true worth.
The name is LEE!
and he hit hes head
The coin in the auction is a proof die as shown by IKE's hair in the photo below of ODV-004.
The known 1971 hair configurations are below with my prototype (ODV-010) on the left, a 1971-S Business Strike in the center and a regular proof (ODV-004) on the right.
It's clear to see that the auction coin more closely matches the ODV-004 hair.
However, the R in LIBERTY is different than any known "proof" die which makes this a unique (so far) die.
The reverse design is what set the ANACS team onto researching if the coin was a prototype since it matches my ODV-007 Reverse. Only after photo's were posted to the IKE Group web site, was it noticed that the obverse was different as well.
Clearly the coin is different. Why it was graded as MS is unknown to me since the coin has a proof hair configuration and I have not seen the coin in hand.
I don't honestly think that putting it up with a $150K starting bid without actually detailing the differences is really fair to the coin as it will only draw ridicule from folks who really know nothing about this particular coin other than whats shown on the slab. The more I think about it, the more I feel it's really an injustice.
I will contact the seller and ask that he remove the listing until he can put up something that has a little more meat since obviously folks are simply going to snicker at this listing.
The name is LEE!
Since you saw it first I'll step aside. It is all your's
GrandAm
can someone lend me the money ?
Maybe he'll get the picture
Sorry but I'll take 5 of the double struck proofs long before I'd take 1 of these.
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
Or I just entered the Twilight Zone( Place appropriate music here)
It is a Prototype Coin of which only a couple are known so far
with different finishes and Obverse/Reverse combination's
Yet one of the top experts in the series would rather have five Doubled Dies than one of these. (71 Proofs at that)
if the true reasons can not be discussed here without starting a war I can understand that.
But I am all for the free flow of information it only benefits everyone. (I know this is politically naive)
Edited to Add: Any explanation would be Greatly appreciated
Terry
A: Lee what a honor to hear from the finder of the first prototype. Lee-- i think there is a big difference in our two coins, let me explain. In my coin we have the Galvano example to look at in yours we do not, when looking at the OBV of your coin it does not look like it all, your R is not like the Galvano example, the IGWT and LIBERTY do not look like the Galvano example at all to me. The R is the KEY your coin should look like the Galvano example but it does not. My coin does and is a true prototype of the Galvano example. The only major difference would be the date. You would expect the 1970 Galvano example to be changed since production started in 1971. One thing your not mentioning from your comments is that there are no authorized pictures taken. I have only given permission to one person to take pictures but before getting my coin back from the slabber and the authenicator had taken pictures of my coin with out my permission. So we do have picture issue's. I realy want the coin out there so it can be studied and enjoyed by all, not hidden. I am a true coin collector and i love the hobby and hope to sell this coin a group or individual who will exspose it to anyone that wants to study it. As to my coin being comical and that readers can not appreciate the importance of this coin, i disagree. Ebayers are the smartest peaple on the planet and i think can appreciate this find a lot more then you think. Could the real reason be that the coin can demonstrate itself much better as a prototype then your coin, my coin is almost identical to the Galvano example and i think it is the first IKE and i am going put it out there "THAT IT IS THE FIRST IKE. It is my hope you will prove me wrong, this is a great hobby and i think it will be fun to show this novist a thing or two, i look forward to the debate. Anyone can write me at sluggo4787@juno.com and ask me for information about this coin and i will return all emails- chuck
Gotta be worth way more than a cup of coffee (or $25) IMHO but obviously his price is a joke.
I won't even bother to post his messages, as they just make him look comical.
I was a bit sceptical with him as he never really makes a case. His stance is prove me wrong....well that means we do all the research and he gets the benefit. if I had a coin I thought was worth $150,000 I'd spend a lot of time making it very clear that I had a unique or nearly so coin.
At best, his coin is a variety of an exisitng coin. If there is one and it is not an off-metal or error, there are most likely others. I'm not aware of any struck US coin variety that only 1 coin exists except the 58 double die Lincoln.
In any case a fishing trip with no lure (As cameonut well stated)
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
<< <i>Q: Charles, this listing was brought to my attention on the PCGS Coin Forums in a thread started by James Sego, a Nationally known auuthority on IKE's. As I read your listing, I see that it is full of speculation and innuendo that really has no basis in fact. I would have preferred seeing a listing which details "why" this coin is different as has been pointed out in the threads on the IKE Group web site. I personally feel that you are doing your coin more harm than good, regardless of what the slab says, as very few folks have any real insight into what makes your coin different. The general feeling about your listing leaves the typical coin collector feeling that your listing is comical instead of serious. I respectfully ask that you take this listing down and relist it with more detailed, specific information. Only then will you actually do it justice. Lee Lydston (19Lyds) Aug-21-10
A: Lee what a honor to hear from the finder of the first prototype. Lee-- i think there is a big difference in our two coins, let me explain. In my coin we have the Galvano example to look at in yours we do not, when looking at the OBV of your coin it does not look like it all, your R is not like the Galvano example, the IGWT and LIBERTY do not look like the Galvano example at all to me. The R is the KEY your coin should look like the Galvano example but it does not. My coin does and is a true prototype of the Galvano example. The only major difference would be the date. You would expect the 1970 Galvano example to be changed since production started in 1971. One thing your not mentioning from your comments is that there are no authorized pictures taken. I have only given permission to one person to take pictures but before getting my coin back from the slabber and the authenicator had taken pictures of my coin with out my permission. So we do have picture issue's. I realy want the coin out there so it can be studied and enjoyed by all, not hidden. I am a true coin collector and i love the hobby and hope to sell this coin a group or individual who will exspose it to anyone that wants to study it. As to my coin being comical and that readers can not appreciate the importance of this coin, i disagree. Ebayers are the smartest peaple on the planet and i think can appreciate this find a lot more then you think. Could the real reason be that the coin can demonstrate itself much better as a prototype then your coin, my coin is almost identical to the Galvano example and i think it is the first IKE and i am going put it out there "THAT IT IS THE FIRST IKE. It is my hope you will prove me wrong, this is a great hobby and i think it will be fun to show this novist a thing or two, i look forward to the debate. Anyone can write me at sluggo4787@juno.com and ask me for information about this coin and i will return all emails- chuck
Gotta be worth way more than a cup of coffee (or $25) IMHO but obviously his price is a joke. >>
The Galvano, which Rob photographed, that the seller enjoys comparing his coin to was created specifically for and presented to the Eisenhower Family. It's not a production galvano which is why it is in the Eisenhower Museum in Kansas. The ANA has the other galvano which was created as a presentation piece and it resides somewhere in their warehouse. I've pointed out specific differences between the sellers coin and that galvano anyway which he seems to disregard but hey, thats his choice.
My only concern with the auction is as I stated, it is not doing the coin any justice with the factless assertions and unsubstantiated statements. "Billions" of IKE were not minted and anybody with a calculator and a Redbook can figure that one out.
I feel confident that the seller will have no luck with the selling coin in that the listing itself is fairly tacky and definitely not thought provoking to the point that some person or "group" would shell out serious money for it. My email was a request to add detail and data but it does not look like that's going to happen. Oh well, I tried.
Judging from James' post, it appears that the seller has been successful in turning off the world's most famous collector of IKE's and quite frankly, who would be better qualified to give it some attention than James?
Serious buyers go to James for his expertise and opinion's, not eBay.
The name is LEE!
And what a lost opportunity to help expand the genuine knowledge of a series.
Well one bright spot in all of this is the hope that another will be found now that a
bunch of collectors are hunting for them and Detailed photos and Research
can be done to ascertain the origins or circumstances surrounding the minting
of the Prototype Ike's. < Edited to add an "S" to make it Plural, more than one, I was up very late
(There is always Hope)
James, Even here, I believe there are 3 known coins, if I am not mistaken.
Wondercoin
JMHO,
Brian
I Love
How about the 1976 no "S" type two 40% silver Proof Ike?
http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=778537&highlight_key=y
James, you have no idea...
...or at least it sounds like you've had the first shovel-full of ignorance. We too have had his comic relief posts on the website. He's made up his mind in an extraordinarily uneducated manner. He had get rich quick dollar signs in the eyes from his first post.
and you're so very right about "that means we do all the research and he gets the benefit"
I think it was somewhere around the time he informed us the finger print on his coin was from the "artist" is when we rolled our eyes. Or was it when he called the reeding "cogs"???
He really has alienated himself from the top Ike collectors and for what reason who knows!
Franklin-Lover's Forum
James comment pertained to varieties.
Wondercoin
Surely not just luck? Does any more info exist on how the discovery was made? That would make for fun reading, and would be nice info to include in the listing...
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
<< <i>Who was he referring to when he said pictures were taken without his consent, ANACS and Wiles? Does someone really need permission to photograph a coin sent to them for authentication/attribution?
He really has alienated himself from the top Ike collectors and for what reason who knows! >>
I expect he's a little put out that pictures were posted on the IKE Group Website and then later used to make comparison's between his coin and the galvano photograph that Moderndollarnut took. But that's pure speculation on my part since the comments made are a surprise to me.
It's kinda strange that someone who wants to make this available for study gets so uppity when folks actually look at or use the photo's for study. BTW, as stated on the IKE Group Web site, I did ask James Wiles for photo's but have not received a response.
Something else that's kinda strange is that, had those photo's NOT been posted, his coin would reside in an incorrect ODV-004/RDV-007 ANACS slab instead of being attrbuted as an ODV-011.
Next time, I'll keep my mouth shut!
Or not.
The name is LEE!
That is just one of the parts that strike me as hilarious in this whole depressing situation
<< <i>How does someone with such obvious in-depth numismatic knowledge (a cog expert of the highest degree, no doubt), know to send that particular coin in to ANACS? >>
My thought exactly.
Is it possible that he simply sent the coin in because it was nice and hoped for high grade and ANACS
attributed for him without him even asking?
Steve
<< <i>
<< <i>How does someone with such obvious in-depth numismatic knowledge (a cog expert of the highest degree, no doubt), know to send that particular coin in to ANACS? >>
My thought exactly.
Is it possible that he simply sent the coin in because it was nice and hoped for high grade and ANACS
attributed for him without him even asking?
Steve >>
That possibility does exist.
Read the thread on the IKE Group Site. In the Forum, under active topics at the top of the listing, look for JOHN ROBERTS reports a cool Find
Edited to update IKE Group Link.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>How does someone with such obvious in-depth numismatic knowledge (a cog expert of the highest degree, no doubt), know to send that particular coin in to ANACS? >>
My thought exactly.
Is it possible that he simply sent the coin in because it was nice and hoped for high grade and ANACS
attributed for him without him even asking?
Steve >>
My understanding of the discovery is that it was among an ANACS submission of many Ikes, and that it was John Roberts who noticed the reverse matched the other known prototype. The finding was then announced on the Ike Group Forum, where Lee first noticed that the obverse is unique.
A: Lee what a honor to hear from the finder of the first prototype. Lee-- i think there is a big difference in our two coins, let me explain. In my coin we have the Galvano example to look at in yours we do not, when looking at the OBV of your coin it does not look like it all, your R is not like the Galvano example, the IGWT and LIBERTY do not look like the Galvano example at all to me. The R is the KEY your coin should look like the Galvano example but it does not. My coin does and is a true prototype of the Galvano example. The only major difference would be the date. You would expect the 1970 Galvano example to be changed since production started in 1971. One thing your not mentioning from your comments is that there are no authorized pictures taken. I have only given permission to one person to take pictures but before getting my coin back from the slabber and the authenicator had taken pictures of my coin with out my permission. So we do have picture issue's. I realy want the coin out there so it can be studied and enjoyed by all, not hidden. I am a true coin collector and i love the hobby and hope to sell this coin a group or individual who will exspose it to anyone that wants to study it. As to my coin being comical and that readers can not appreciate the importance of this coin, i disagree. Ebayers are the smartest peaple on the planet and i think can appreciate this find a lot more then you think. Could the real reason be that the coin can demonstrate itself much better as a prototype then your coin, my coin is almost identical to the Galvano example and i think it is the first IKE and i am going put it out there "THAT IT IS THE FIRST IKE. It is my hope you will prove me wrong, this is a great hobby and i think it will be fun to show this novist a thing or two, i look forward to the debate. Anyone can write me at sluggo4787@juno.com and ask me for information about this coin and i will return all emails- chuck
He seems a bit upset?
Successful Trades: Swampboy,
<< <i>
<< <i>How does someone with such obvious in-depth numismatic knowledge (a cog expert of the highest degree, no doubt), know to send that particular coin in to ANACS? >>
My thought exactly.
Is it possible that he simply sent the coin in because it was nice and hoped for high grade and ANACS
attributed for him without him even asking?
Steve >>
That's what it sounds like happened. After reading the thread on the Ike Group Forum it seems that John Roberts of ANACS made the discovery and now the owner of the coin is trying to take credit.
The owner also made this statement in that thread which it seems he has now changed his mind.
<< <i>"This coin is available to all who wish to study it. I have contacted Dr. Wiles and asked him to make available all pictures to all who want to study the coin. Anyone wanting pictures of the coin please contact Dr. Wiles for the best pictures, if you want my pictures all you have to do ask me for pictures i will send what i have - email me at -----------sluggo4787@juno.com also my phone number is 1-256-499-1800" >>
Franklin-Lover's Forum
<< <i> Ebayers are the smartest peaple on the planet ... >>
Which planet?
Lee is right ... the seller's listing is not helping his case for study (or sale) of the coin. Too bad.
Lane
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
<< <i>Clearly the coin is different. Why it was graded as MS is unknown to me since the coin has a proof hair configuration and I have not seen the coin in hand. >>
It is likely that the coin is not a proof. Since declaration of a proof refers to the method of manufacture and not use of a particular die, the coin appears to have been struck as a business strike. Then again, that is just speculation on my part as I do not know nearly as much as you have already forgotten about this series!
Is it possible that, similar to some series form the 19th century (such as twenty-cent pieces) that dies used to strike proofs were also used to strike coins for circulation?
Lane
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
GrandAm
The name is LEE!
<< <i>how do I get the pics to show? thanks again >>
Quote this reply and look at the code that was used.
The hair on your coin is very interesting. What does the reverse of the coin look like? Specifically, the Earth.
Also, if you could provide full shots of the obverse and reverse.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>how do I get the pics to show? thanks again >>
Quote this reply and look at the code that was used.
The hair on your coin is very interesting. What does the reverse of the coin look like? Specifically, the Earth.
Also, if you could provide full shots of the obverse and reverse. >>