1847 lg cent question

lkeigwin · August 19, 2010 7:14AM

Here are a few examples of the Coronet head large cent date, 1847/47 (large-over-small)...the first set of three images. (Not my coins, FWIW.)

I wonder about those in the second set of three (mine). The first is just a normal date. No question there. The second has some ever so slight doubling I think. Or maybe I'm imagining it. But the third is interesting. It doesn't look like a '47/47. Thoughts?

I think I read that by the 1840's the mint was using 4-digit punches ("logotypes") for the date instead of punching numerals individually. So is this just a repunch shifted slightly?
Lance.

REAL 1847/47 EXAMPLES:

CURIOUS ABOUT THE 2nd AND 3rd:

MikeInFL · August 19, 2010 9:43AM

The first thing we need to realize about 1847 is there are several overdates/repunched dates -- a quick check of Grellman suggests 15 of the 43 varieties show some repunching -- and many people are a bit loose in calling these coins "47/47". This includes the coins you posted in the first group...

The first three coins are really examples of two varieties. The first and last coin are "large 7 over small 7" (N-31) and the second is "large 7 over medium 7" (N-2 & N-18, one is just a later state of the other, and both have the distinctive "fat" 7)

As for the coins you posted...

Your third coin is an N-1 -- no-brainer, in fact.

I'm not sure about your second or the first, but none appear to be the 7/7 coins shown in the first set of photos (N-31, N-2, or N-18), simply based on the shape of the numbers and the position of the 8 versus the downward pointing hair curl above it.

High resolution shots of both sides of your first two coins would likely allow for a more definitive answer -- there are non-date diagnostics to check for all these varieties.

All of the above IMO, hoping to help...Mike

LoveMyLiberty · August 19, 2010 9:50AM

Your 3rd coin is an N-1, R-2, with all 4 digits repunched west of the base of each.

Your 2nd may be an N-3, or N-12 , but I'll have to look later, as I'm going out.
can you show the full image of it?

RichieURich · August 19, 2010 10:32AM

The last coin posted is an N-1, with all digits repunched to the left and the bases of those digits showing. There are at least 2 other large cents with this phenomenon, plus the 1848 doubled date quarter and the 1849 dramatically doubled date half dollar also show the same diepunching error!

lkeigwin · August 19, 2010 10:33AM

Thanks for the pointers, Mike and LoveMyLiberty. I am testing a new interest in early cents with some less expensive examples. So these three are not special. Don't go out of your way. But since you asked for photos I already had, easy enough.

If you have a recommendation of a good book for beginners, I'd like to hear it. Here are some I've seen mentioned.

"Penny Whimsy" by Dr. William H. Sheldon
"Walter Breen's Encyclopedia of United States Cents 1793-1814" by Walter Breen and Mark Borckardt
"United States Large Cents, Volumes I & II" by William C. Noyes
"United States Copper Cents 1816-1857" by Howard R. Newcomb
"The Cent Book 1816-1839" by John D. Wright
"Attribution Guide For United States Large Cents 1840-1857", 2nd edition by J.R. Grellman and Jules Reiver

Thanks,
Lance.

These are in the same order as above.

Mercury10c · August 19, 2010 10:40AM

<< <i>Your 3rd coin is an N-1, R-2, with all 4 digits repunched west of the base of each.

Your 2nd may be an N-3, or N-12 , but I'll have to look later, as I'm going out.
can you show the full image of it? >>

The second cannot be a N-3 or N-12. The date is punched too far to the left to be either.
I'm guessing N-35 or N-38, but I would need to see a slightly wider photo that shows the full
date in reference to the entire lower portion of the bust. Better yet, just a high quality shot
of both sides.

MikeInFL · August 19, 2010 11:52PM

Need bigger pics of the first two coins, please. The bigger the better.

lkeigwin · August 21, 2010 9:07AM

Mike, this is as big as I can go. Coins #1 and #2. Hope it works! And I hope the size doesn't irritate anyone.

Lance.

LoveMyLiberty · August 21, 2010 9:38AM

Much better pics! I see no repunching on the "1". There seems to be some repunching at the top of the "8".
not sure if that is punching to the left of the diagonal on the "4". The "7" seems to have a small seven showing at
the top.

Can you confirm these?

LoveMyLiberty · August 21, 2010 9:39AM

Sorry, I was referring to your second coin.

MikeInFL · August 23, 2010 1:49PM

To answer one of your earlier questions, for these coins, Newcomb and Grellman are the authorities. I'd lean towards the latter and newer work, particularly for attribution.

Thanks for taking the time to upload the pics. Unfortunately, I could not attribute either coin authoritatively from the photographs after almost an hour reviewing Grellman and photos. The number position of the date allows you to rule out quite a number for each coin, but the list is still far too long. Adding to the challenge, both coins circulated and have some surface issues (particularly in the nooks and crannies where these coins are attributed). Thus I have failed to attribute them.

Such is life with trying to attribute late dates -- in mint state they are usually easy -- but once they get a bit of circulation or verdigris it's a whole different ballgame.

Sorry I couldn't help...Mike

p.s. I did rule out all of the 7/7 varieties mentioned above (because of date position) -- they are not N-2, N-18, or N-31.

1847 lg cent question

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