A small horde - New Zealand and Australian coins
zeebob
Posts: 2,825 ✭
Have to sort these out. The stacked coins are New Zealand and Australian 1d and 1/2d coins. The saflips are the same, but older or in good shape. The books are filled year sets. Should be an interesting cataloging project.
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Very nice!
Any key dates?
I like the Bertrand folders too!!
<< <i>Very nice!
Any key dates?
I like the Bertrand folders too!! >>
Dunno. Honestly, I'm not even sure what to look for. I plan to spend some time with the Krause Catalog this weekend.
This is just the tip of the iceberg for this horde. Will have more photos in a couple of weeks. Helping clean out a house of an Alzeimer's patient. Sad really. My task is just to make sure the owner, well her family really, gets honest value from her collection. Her family will be needing it to pay for her care. I'm impressed with how high "assisted living" costs are. Holy cow!
Anyway, I've got my work cut out for me. There are eight more ammunition boxes (single row 5.56mm boxes) of coins (I think all NZ). Several boxes are just the 1965 mint sets in paper holders. The storage was nice and cool and dry so the coins seem to be in excellent shape even given the crappy plastic used by the mint. The rest of the boxes have 2x2 brown paper envelopes with coins. If you see some of my other posts, you'll see questions about silver bars, a couple of sacks of USA pennies, a big set of presidential medals (I've no clue about these).
I'll post the pics as I get them. Should be a fun project. I'll learn a lot. It's going to be a lot of time, but it's for a good cause.
Not sure what the book is for New Zealand, but I bet there is one.
Krause is useless for Aussie and NZ
My eBay
<< <i>looks very fun! >>
My thoughts exactly and I don't even collect NZ coinage.
Are you also going to be assisting the family in selling the coins or just cataloging them??
I am always interested in more NZ coinage
i have all of those books except the NZ type set book. I would love to see pics of the inside.
As with many others here, I would love been able to go through a horde like this. Instead we have to enjoy this vicariously though you.
Collecting:
Conder tokens
19th & 20th Century coins from Great Britain and the Realm
Now that I finally have gotten space in a secure safe away from my home (this was way too much for my safe-deposit boxes), I feel more comfortable talking about the project. I will be helping the family sell the coins. The family is actually my family. The coins belong to my mom, who has Alziemer's and can no longer take care of herself. I'm not in a hurry to sell this stuff, the cash flow situation isn't yet to the point where she "needs" the proceeds from a sale to pay care, but that time will come.
Initially, I also felt pressure to liquidate the collection just so that it wasn't hanging about my home. It was one thing when mom had it squirreled away at her place, but I refuse to keep coin at my home (it's just an invite to something like a home invasion these days). I worried over this part of the project for the last few weeks. But I finally found a solution by asking friends and friends of friends. Turns out a buddy of mine has a buddy that has is an Federal Firearms License (FFL) holder and has a gun shop in a near-by town. When his building was built, they designed it with a bank-like vault, so they could lock up their stock of guns at night. In the end, the proprietor (FFL-guy) agreed to rent me space in his vault much like the bank would rent a safe-deposit box, less formal of course, but it seems safe enough. So for all you guys that might get stuck sorting out a bunch of coins and not feel comfortable storing them locally, I suggest calling around to the local gun stores and seeing if you too could strike an arrangement with the owner of a gun store to store the coins for you while you work on the cataloging and sale (or just store them). It'll probably cost about the same as a safe-deposit box, but you can have a couple of suitcases worth of space.
I'll see about getting photos of the individual coins or of the coin folders.
I guess I'll have to search for key dates and rare-in-grade stuff. I suppose all that sort of thing should go to PCGS for slabbing. The common date stuff will take for ever to peddle on Ebay...
Wish me luck.
Very interesting and must seem something like a treasure hunt as has been alluded to. How do you decide ultimately what is fair to pay?
Well, just Love coins, period.
I'll keep the forum posted. Probably should write the Royal NZ Numismatic Society as well.
The question of how to establish a value is an interesting one.
My dad and mom split the sheets in '68. Each took half the collection. Near as I can tell, Mom stuffed her coins in ammunition tins and stored them in the basement. Dad became a part-time, but very avid coin dealer (New Zealand Numismatic Company). Dad focused on collecting and acquiring really high grade stuff. As a kid, I had exposure to the hobby, and had some interest, but I never really developed the interest (was more interested in computers and electronics).
Role the clock forward 25 years. Mom knows Alzheimer’s is coming. Her dad had it. His sister had it. Unknown, but suspected, her grandmother had it. (BTW: the ramifications of a genetic component aren't lost on me...) So mom begins getting some family history in order. Part of that is the coin collection my Grandpa (mom's side) and mom did. She assembled several nice type sets and year sets of US and NZ coins and over a few year gave them to me. I was modestly interested, but never really spend too much time on the coins. About five years ago, I decided that it was just a bad idea to have that stuff lurking around the house, so I rented a safe-deposit box and pulled all the coins from the Capital Plastics holders and got some flips and found that I owned (from my mom) more coins than I could put in a single safe-deposit box... Grrr. So I decided I'd do what mom and I have done with several other family accumulations of other material. Cull the collection then upgrade the collection. So I did.
To sell the coins, I first had to educate myself. Dad was of some help, but he and I never had done much with coins together. Roll the clock forward... I liquidated some NZ 1/2 d and 1 d pre-decimalization year sets (Ebay). I liquidated a year set of AUish Morgans (one of mom's favorite coins - but one that takes a lot of space for a year set - and one that is really truely a widget set). Sold off the SBA set. That left a short but complete 19th century type set and a 20th century type set. Also now a nice handful of slabbed MS-64 and 65 type coins that I had acquired as I sold off the other coins and put my own money in the collection. A semi-local dealer that I met after much searching helped me with these tasks. I can't thank Jerry G. enough (typecoin on eBay). He is a model of honesty and integrity. He has helped provide me a with a solid start and answered many of my questions over the years.
At this point (about 5 years ago) I was freaking hooked on the hobby.
Dad and I had by this point begun getting some of his stuff slabbed and I was helping (slowly) sell off some of his low dollar raw coins on Ebay. I think if you search, you'll see a couple of previous posts of 30 and 65 coins PCGS submissions of world coins - those are Dad's. Some very interesting stuff and high grade stuff. Dad's project is still on going.
His plan, as announced in the Royal New Zealand Numismatics Society advert he placed, is to sell off the nice high grade slabbed coins. But we have to finish the slabbing first.
Why slab? Turns out that while a lot of people turn their nose up at plastic. As far as I can tell, having a reputable third party opinion on coins allows the buyer to feel comfortable paying strong-money in sight-unseen and even sight-seen environments. This appears to lead to 30% or so premiums. Also, the slabs offer nice protection for the coins (yes, I know I can buy slabs from Amos or E&T Kointainer).
The other thing I noticed when selling the NZ year sets mom had put together, is that when I used the US 0-70 Sheldon Scale, buyers seemed to like that better than UNC and BU. So even though I'm an admitted newbie, I do try to ascribe a numeric grade and detailed accurate description with photos attached for each coin. Even the oversees buyers gave me good feedback on the practice. I had no returns.
So that leads to the question, how to do ascribe a value to an MS-66 NZ pick-a-date half-crown, or a AU-58 1956 NZ strapless penny, or an MS-65 5 Hao piece from French Indo China (forgot the date - sorry)? I dunno, but I plan to figure out something.
I have found it fascinating to watch the practices of world coin dealers in the US. I have a couple of coin lists from guys like Dennis Gill of NY that have a reputation for good grading and honesty. But the lists have limited descriptions and no photos. I have bought, well tried to buy from Dennis - the coin was sold by the time I called. His reputation is excellent. I hope to buy from him in the future. He and dad have done much business over the years.
I have also bought at local shows from guys like Fragner and Fragner, who keep their coins in PVC rich flips, and have in my opinion over graded and over priced inventory. I got my first real introduction to how if you buy $200 worth of coins and bring them home and have a good look at them in good light the surfaces can be coated in PVC. And if you remove that with acetone how sometimes the PVC slim was hiding just yukkie corroded surfaces. Nice folks, I'm sure, but very pushy and very "used car salesman" like. They offered a generous $1500 for my 1935 PF64 NZ Waitangi in a PCGS holder (a $3500 coin if it's worth a cent). They offered low ball money for several other coins I showed them (most were slabbed and pics posted in this forum). Not just something fair, like 10% below market, but like 50-70% below market... Well, everyone has to make a living I suppose...
I have bought from a neat old guy named Howard. Former engineer. Fun and conversational guy in his 70's. Unfortunately for me, the Maximillian Peso I bought as BU for $400, in now in an NCS holder as AU details/cleaned (and worth 1/3 what I paid). I didn't have the heart to try and look up Howard. Maybe his coin was honestly mis-graded. We did talk a lot about the coin and it's surfaces and I indicated my plans to send it to PCGS. Maybe it was him just pulling the wool over a newbies eyes. I like to think the former - Howard seemed a nice fellow and highly educated and very numismatically experienced.
My point isn't to endorse or belittle any specific dealers. I'm sure others have had outstanding experiences with all of the above dealers. My point is simply that there is a pretty wide diversity in grading practices and sales tactics out there. I have high hope that by adhering to a strict full disclosure, full description, nice photos and a TPG opinion on the coins I sell that this will translate to enhanced comfort for buyers and higher prices. Thus the slabs for Dad's (and now apparently for Mom's) coins.
What a rambling post this is turning into.
So the question still is out there. How does one put a price on an true gem BU slabbed MS-65 coin in a market that is used to seeing stuff graded as BU that's either AU or low MS and stuff that's marked gem BU but is really MS-64? Auctions maybe? Sight seen shows maybe? I've always wanted to visit the land of my birth again (New Zealand). Maybe I should haul all this stuff there and do a show. Sort of couple the trip with a vacation for my wife and daughter?
For Dad's stuff, he and I were (are) experimenting with ideas (Ebay for example) (RNZNS ads), but haven't really settled on the "best" way to sell this stuff. There isn't any time pressure on his stuff. Have learned that photos take a ton of time (I own photos to two forum members that I just haven't gotten culled and cropped for Dad's stuff - I guess I could just send two DVDs of all of the source photos, but that doesn't really do justice to the coins and therefore dad, plus the potential buyer would have the arduous task of looking through a 1000 photos for like 100 coins)...
For Mom's stuff, I'm responsible (only child) for her care and as part of that I have to see that all of her assets are managed well so that she can enjoy the best quality of life as possible while not spending lot of my paychecks to do it. I have to plan and save for my daughter's future (University) as well.
I'm open to any suggestions any of you might have. And I thank you guys that posted the references for books already. I have them printed out on my desk at work and will be buying the books probably next week.
Cheers,
Bob
Wow! Interesting monolog and dilemma that seems to deepen with more telling.
Alzheimer's is a scary disease, but perhaps more likely to occur by the very stress of worrying about it! Not trying to play your doctor, but I would suggest the history as a stimulus for you doing the right things: no cigarettes, minimal alcohol, try to eat more natural and unprocessed foods like white flour, white rice, sugar and bread, not too much beef or pork, etc., decrease the fat intake, bike or pool at least 30 min. 4-5x per week.
I wish that I personally could help more with evaluations or directions to take in this; I read that Aussie coins are bringing big dollars for rarity and proofs as well as some examples of circ. coins like the 1923 & 1930 pennies, etc. I do not see that many coins encapsulated by their big auction firms like Noble though so not sure how those fare over there. Maybe it would help to decide if you are trying to sell mostly "down under" or here??
Grading is all over the map as you suggest and I can not say that I will agree with the TPGs such as "N" or "P". They can serve as a guide and can be helpful within limits however. As to dealers, I think the Brit dealers have in the past been much more conservative in grading than American - many of the latter appear to inflate grades a lot when selling and the reverse when buying. As far as the Brit dealers, Spink and Baldwin mostly are conservative but the smaller (and many of the ebay sellers) are oftentimes not, or at least you better be prepared for them not to be.
I think this is a case where you are going to have to take the time to learn, but I am sure all here will try to assist as they are able....
Well, just Love coins, period.
This is an exciting and somewhat sad story. Those coins should keep you busy for a while. Hope everything works out well for your mom. Can be a little scary as our parents begin to age and roles are reversed (i.e. we become the caregivers rather than the care receivers we've been all our lives). Best of luck with both endeavors!
Regarding Alzheimers, I just finished a historical novel that deals with it somewhat. It was one of the best fictional books I've read for some time: The Madonnas of Leningrad, by Debra Dean. Its protagonist is a young Russian woman who works in the Hermitage Museum and has to help evacuate all the priceless treasures to protect them from the oncoming German invasion. She then commits the contents of the empty museum to memory and lives in these memories later in life when she's living in America and suffering from Alzheimers.
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
Any update from zeebob?
Well, just Love coins, period.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Well, just Love coins, period.
Mom died Jan 13, 2009. Work has been busy. And I haven't had much chance to do anything with the collection (accumulation). I did sort it into boxes by denomination and date. But haven't indexed it or photographed it. My intent is to get around to it and sell this stuff. With mom passing away, it took out the sense of urgency I once felt since I won't have to be paying for assisted living for her. She stayed with us until one night she had an arotic anurism and passed away peacefully the next day. She certainly had a lot of difficulty with Alzheimers so having her arota give out was a sort of mercy. Funny thing is that just after her arota burst, she had about 15 minutes of clarity at which time she knew who I was, what day it was and generally what was going on. It was enough time to say farewell.
Most of the coins in Mom's stuff were circulated type coins. Some in nice condition, but not much in the way of really high grade BU stuff. If you are looking for type coins, PM me, I can probably hook you up.
Todd (blu62vette) photographed a bunch of coins for dad. I have ended up doing a lot of additional photography for dad last November, but then my job pulled me away before I got everything edited. I'm still backed up on getting things graded for dad and photographing coins for dad and sending stuff in for grading. The logistics of retriving the coins to be photographed and then hauling them back to their vault is a bit of a burden on time. So I'm way behind where dad would like.
I have high hopes this fall I'll be able to get back to the project. Maybe bring dad out for a two week visit and see what progress can be done.
Here's are a couple of photos I took for dad.
It's a very interesting bunch. The number of those "conversion" mint sets is just
staggering. I've got maybe six or seven of them.
Is there very much modern stuff like the cu/ ni NZ including decimals?
How about Aussie cu/ ni?
I had completely missed this very interesting thread until now. Alzheimer's is a terrible disease and I believe that the world knows very little about it, or about any eventual cure for it so far. It's a horrible feeling to see a loved one having it and still denying having it after several years. At least you didn't have to go through that.
From a coin point of view, you seem to have done a great job so far, and I like the part that this project brought you and your dad closer together. Best of luck.
D
myEbay
DPOTD 3
<< <i>I'm sorry to hear about your mom.
It's a very interesting bunch. The number of those "conversion" mint sets is just
staggering. I've got maybe six or seven of them.
Is there very much modern stuff like the cu/ ni NZ including decimals?
How about Aussie cu/ ni? >>
CladKing,
There is a box or two of more modern stuff in Dad's stuff. I sold some of it on Ebay for him. The rest we decided could wait until we processed his "more important" stuff (meaning, I suppose more expensive stuff). We used the moderned lower value stuff to practice photography and to see how Ebay would work for coins (what sort of prices could be realized and how the fee structure would work).
Neither collection has much in the way of decimal NZ coinage, but there is a sizable amount of Cu/Ni pre-decimal NZ. Mom had some Aussie material, Dad has a fair bit of it and in grades from Au to Gem. Some of the older coppers and tokens are well circulated, but nicely worn. I'll see about getting up to the vault next weekend and see if I can make four or five hours on Satuday to photograph some more coins and organize the photos in Photobucket.
SYRACUSIAN, thank you.