<< <i>It's my opinion that PCGS settled on Position A and Position B to "normalize" the orientation of the lettering since folks were getting ripped off by eBay sellers claiming that the upside down lettering was an "error".
It does not matter to me whether these two orientations are recognized or not, however the edge lettering itself is something different and the Overton and VAM Boys have laid the ground for considering these coins as varieties. Whether they are Mint Errors or not does not really matter simply because they are collected as Varieties. >>
i sent email today and asked about the partial edge lettering and weak edge lettering, this is the response i got back, "This is a new change and we are having a meeting regarding these changes tomorrow. I will ask that question in the meeting and get back to you tomorrow"....................................................
<< <i>i sent email today and asked about the partial edge lettering and weak edge lettering, this is the response i got back, "This is a new change and we are having a meeting regarding these changes tomorrow. I will ask that question in the meeting and get back to you tomorrow".................................................... >>
A more relevant question would be, are coins marked / designated as mint error(s) allowed or required in competitive Registry set(s)? Why a double standard?
Reminds my of a book a read last winter, “All animals are created equal, some more equal then others”.
Point one, I know of one participant in the Registry that had acquired a real nice business strike 1968-D Kennedy half dollar graded MS68 at NGC. Yes this half dollar was struck on a quarter planchet but it was still a 1968-D Kennedy half dollar. This collector crossed the coin over to PCGS and it now sets in a PCGS “Mint Error” MS67 holder so he added it to his basic collection in the Registry where it sat for nearly one year. Without notice, or warning one day, the collector was checking his sets and noticed that the coin was ”RIPPED” out of his set to his surprise. When he checked with the staff of the Registry, he was told that the rules were changed and “Mint Error(s)” were no longer allowed in competitive sets. SEE RULES:
<< <i> Mint Errors
PCGS grades some coins through the Mint Error program. These are coins such as planchet clips and off-metal strikings that have been unintentionally struck by the Mint. Mint errors are designated by an "E" in front of the coin number on the PCGS holder insert. Mint errors can be added to "My Inventory" and the Collectors Showcase, but cannot be used in competitive sets. >>
Please make no mistake, I am not supporting this rule, whether the coin is in a “Genuine”, “ERROR”, “Regular” or any “Special” holder, the coin is what it is and in the case illustrated above, the coin is a 1968-D Kennedy half dollar and should be allowed in any set that requires a 1968-D Kennedy half dollar. What does it matter if the coin is a clipped, struck thru, under weight (struck on thin planchet), off center, broadstruck, or struck on wrong planchet, it is still a 1968-D Kennedy.
Point two, my dad purchased a 1968-S PR67 PCGS marked “Inverted S” on the label in an “ERROR” holder for my set. I was not allowed to use this coin in my competitive sets until I paid to have the coin re-holdered because the label read “Mint ERROR”. The grade didn’t change and the label still said “Inverted S” and it was still a Kennedy half dollar.
Now I find out that some “Mint Error” coins are not just allowed in competitive sets but REQUIRED? Where is the consistency, the fairness?
I am not against the Presidential dollars having slots in the Registry for “Position A”, “Position B”, “MEL”, “PEL”, “WEL” or any other designations. I am against the rules not be enforced / applied equally across the entire Registry. Where is the sense of “fair play”? Is it like I mentioned earlier, “All animals are created equal, some more equal then others”.
The choice to have these dollars ( MEL, DBL Edge, PEL & WEL) & the A/B Varieties in the sets AND how they are set up was voted on by the registry participants
FYI: Here is the email with results =============================================================================================================
Results of Presidential Variety Poll (Email dated 10/26/07)
Thanks to everyone who participated in the Presidential Dollar poll. The majority has decided that the composites should consist of the following coins:
Major Variety Set
1. Position A
2. Position B
3. Missing Edge Lettering
4. Doubled Edge Lettering
5. Satin Finish
Complete Variety Set
1. Position A
2. Position B
3. Missing Edge Lettering
4. Doubled Edge Lettering
5. Satin Finish
6. Partial and Weak Edge Lettering
We have removed the Partial and Weak Edge Lettering and have added the Satin Finish coins to the original variety set and have added the new composites for the Complete Variety Sets.
Please let me know should you have any questions. Thanks!
There are no "more errors than varieties" - They are either errors OR varieties. They are not the same thing, and crossing the line calling one the other is ONLY a good way to continue the frustration and confusion. PCGS does NOT identify them properly.
BY DEFINITION a die variety is a flaw on the die created in the die shop that transfers to ALL COINS minted by that die. An error is pretty much anything else.
Because it cannot be proven that the 1937D 3-legged buffalo nickel die had three legs when it left the die shop, it's an error. It is the result of an overpolished die. It was VERY likely a normal die when it left the die shop and started making coins. That is NOT a die variety.
<< <i>There are no "more errors than varieties" - They are either errors OR varieties. They are not the same thing, and crossing the line calling one the other is ONLY a good way to continue the frustration and confusion. PCGS does NOT identify them properly.
BY DEFINITION a die variety is a flaw on the die created in the die shop that transfers to ALL COINS minted by that die. An error is pretty much anything else.
Because it cannot be proven that the 1937D 3-legged buffalo nickel die had three legs when it left the die shop, it's an error. It is the result of an overpolished die. It was VERY likely a normal die when it left the die shop and started making coins. That is NOT a die variety. >>
Coppercoins,
If the edge lettering (Schuler) machine uses a "die" to stamp the edges....Then
Weak Edge coins - Variety Partial Edge Coins - Variety A postion - Variety B Position - Variety Doubled Edge Lettering - Mint Error Missing Edge Lettering - Mint Error
Coppercoins - IF all of the 3 legged Buffs all came from the same single die, then why could it not be equally asserted that the coin is a "variety"? And, of course, using the strict definition of variety I outlined above, one could even assert a unique die is not entirely releveant to the definition (in plain english at least).
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
i received an email telling me that Unfortunately this is going to take time before PCGS management has an answer as to how we will move forward with these varieties. "They have put a stop to it for now until further notice." so no more grading any of these for right now.
Comments
<< <i>It's my opinion that PCGS settled on Position A and Position B to "normalize" the orientation of the lettering since folks were getting ripped off by eBay sellers claiming that the upside down lettering was an "error".
It does not matter to me whether these two orientations are recognized or not, however the edge lettering itself is something different and the Overton and VAM Boys have laid the ground for considering these coins as varieties. Whether they are Mint Errors or not does not really matter simply because they are collected as Varieties. >>
Gardnerville, NV
=========================
Our Website -->Innovation, Native & Presidential Dollar Errors, Lincoln Cents and more
Check it out --> Our eBay Auctions
I used to be famous now I just collect coins.
Link to My Registry Set.
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-specialty-sets/washington-quarters-complete-variety-set-circulation-strikes-1932-1964/publishedset/78469
Varieties Are The Spice Of LIFE and Thanks to Those who teach us what to search For.
<< <i>i sent email today and asked about the partial edge lettering and weak edge lettering, this is the response i got back, "This is a new change and we are having a meeting regarding these changes tomorrow. I will ask that question in the meeting and get back to you tomorrow".................................................... >>
A more relevant question would be, are coins marked / designated as mint error(s) allowed or required in competitive Registry set(s)? Why a double standard?
Reminds my of a book a read last winter, “All animals are created equal, some more equal then others”.
Point one, I know of one participant in the Registry that had acquired a real nice business strike 1968-D Kennedy half dollar graded MS68 at NGC. Yes this half dollar was struck on a quarter planchet but it was still a 1968-D Kennedy half dollar. This collector crossed the coin over to PCGS and it now sets in a PCGS “Mint Error” MS67 holder so he added it to his basic collection in the Registry where it sat for nearly one year. Without notice, or warning one day, the collector was checking his sets and noticed that the coin was ”RIPPED” out of his set to his surprise. When he checked with the staff of the Registry, he was told that the rules were changed and “Mint Error(s)” were no longer allowed in competitive sets. SEE RULES:
<< <i> Mint Errors
PCGS grades some coins through the Mint Error program. These are coins such as planchet clips and off-metal strikings that have been unintentionally struck by the Mint. Mint errors are designated by an "E" in front of the coin number on the PCGS holder insert. Mint errors can be added to "My Inventory" and the Collectors Showcase, but cannot be used in competitive sets.
>>
Please make no mistake, I am not supporting this rule, whether the coin is in a “Genuine”, “ERROR”, “Regular” or any “Special” holder, the coin is what it is and in the case illustrated above, the coin is a 1968-D Kennedy half dollar and should be allowed in any set that requires a 1968-D Kennedy half dollar. What does it matter if the coin is a clipped, struck thru, under weight (struck on thin planchet), off center, broadstruck, or struck on wrong planchet, it is still a 1968-D Kennedy.
Point two, my dad purchased a 1968-S PR67 PCGS marked “Inverted S” on the label in an “ERROR” holder for my set. I was not allowed to use this coin in my competitive sets until I paid to have the coin re-holdered because the label read “Mint ERROR”. The grade didn’t change and the label still said “Inverted S” and it was still a Kennedy half dollar.
Now I find out that some “Mint Error” coins are not just allowed in competitive sets but REQUIRED? Where is the consistency, the fairness?
I am not against the Presidential dollars having slots in the Registry for “Position A”, “Position B”, “MEL”, “PEL”, “WEL” or any other designations. I am against the rules not be enforced / applied equally across the entire Registry. Where is the sense of “fair play”? Is it like I mentioned earlier, “All animals are created equal, some more equal then others”.
Sorry for the rant,
The choice to have these dollars ( MEL, DBL Edge, PEL & WEL) & the A/B Varieties in the sets AND how they are set up was voted on by the registry participants
FYI:
Here is the email with results
=============================================================================================================
Results of Presidential Variety Poll (Email dated 10/26/07)
Thanks to everyone who participated in the Presidential Dollar poll. The majority has decided that the composites should consist of the following coins:
Major Variety Set
1. Position A
2. Position B
3. Missing Edge Lettering
4. Doubled Edge Lettering
5. Satin Finish
Complete Variety Set
1. Position A
2. Position B
3. Missing Edge Lettering
4. Doubled Edge Lettering
5. Satin Finish
6. Partial and Weak Edge Lettering
We have removed the Partial and Weak Edge Lettering and have added the Satin Finish coins to the original variety set and have added the new composites for the Complete Variety Sets.
Please let me know should you have any questions. Thanks!
BJ Searls
Set Registry Manager
512.496.5018
512.420-8805 Fax
www.pcgs.com (coins)
www.pcgscurrency.com (currency)
www.psacard.com (cards/memorabilia/autographs)
www.psestamp.com (stamps)
==================================================================================
Now, almost three years have gone under the bridge since that poll changed the Registry sets to how they appear now.
The other changes since then came in the form of
A & B basic sets
Satin Only Sets
Business Strike Only sets
And here we are today....
Sorry to those that are active in the sets for the history lesson.
Gardnerville, NV
=========================
Our Website -->Innovation, Native & Presidential Dollar Errors, Lincoln Cents and more
Check it out --> Our eBay Auctions
BY DEFINITION a die variety is a flaw on the die created in the die shop that transfers to ALL COINS minted by that die. An error is pretty much anything else.
Because it cannot be proven that the 1937D 3-legged buffalo nickel die had three legs when it left the die shop, it's an error. It is the result of an overpolished die. It was VERY likely a normal die when it left the die shop and started making coins. That is NOT a die variety.
The Lincoln cent store:
http://www.lincolncent.com
My numismatic art work:
http://www.cdaughtrey.com
USAF veteran, 1986-1996 :: support our troops - the American way.
<< <i>There are no "more errors than varieties" - They are either errors OR varieties. They are not the same thing, and crossing the line calling one the other is ONLY a good way to continue the frustration and confusion. PCGS does NOT identify them properly.
BY DEFINITION a die variety is a flaw on the die created in the die shop that transfers to ALL COINS minted by that die. An error is pretty much anything else.
Because it cannot be proven that the 1937D 3-legged buffalo nickel die had three legs when it left the die shop, it's an error. It is the result of an overpolished die. It was VERY likely a normal die when it left the die shop and started making coins. That is NOT a die variety. >>
Coppercoins,
If the edge lettering (Schuler) machine uses a "die" to stamp the edges....Then
Weak Edge coins - Variety
Partial Edge Coins - Variety
A postion - Variety
B Position - Variety
Doubled Edge Lettering - Mint Error
Missing Edge Lettering - Mint Error
?????
Gardnerville, NV
=========================
Our Website -->Innovation, Native & Presidential Dollar Errors, Lincoln Cents and more
Check it out --> Our eBay Auctions
Wondercoin
I used to be famous now I just collect coins.
Link to My Registry Set.
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-specialty-sets/washington-quarters-complete-variety-set-circulation-strikes-1932-1964/publishedset/78469
Varieties Are The Spice Of LIFE and Thanks to Those who teach us what to search For.