Hey TDN, hey buddy!
IGWT
Posts: 4,975 ✭
Seems like the time is right for Laura's triumphant return to the forum! 
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The Defendants named in the suit include: Al Rossman of Nevada, Rick Wesslink of California, Robert Lehmann of Maryland, in addition to three members of the Professional Numismatists Guild ; Eric Steinberg of Florida, Silvano DiGenova of California, and Greg Krill of California
It would be super of you to be on the look out for some lowly collector grade coins that aren't "dreck".
I could be wrong here, but I believe she is welcome back if she chooses too, however I do not believe that to be the best choice. Laura still reads here and when she has strong opinions on a certain topic she lets it be known through emails to a few forum members who may post them if they choose to.
A bunch of unopened OBW 1956 and 1956-D 10c rolls at $26 each in Baltimore. Awesome, tight paper wrapping.
Then again in 2007, I purchased a another lovely obw 1956-D dime roll for $54. It was the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco, Los Angeles branch stamped roll.
I was thrilled so I bought 2 more rolls at the same price per roll. One 1957-D and one 1959-D.
Laura knows her obw's!
Sure, the coins inside are "widgets" but the paper wrapping is NOT!
<< <i>I think a lot of people are eager to hear her comments. --Jerry >>
Ask and you shall receive
"
THE PCGS LAWSUIT
KUDOS PCGS!
Please, no one pinch me, this is one dream I do not want to end. My sincere congratulations to David Hall and Don Willis for taking the ultimate step in the fight on coin doctors-filing a lawsuit!
For years the situation with coin doctors has only been growing more desperate. The grading services have been fighting them as hard as they could privately. Every time they thought they had a handle, the coin docs just figured out new ways to continue their destruction. This lawsuit is not for glamour, rewards, or a money grab, it was a necessity. PCGS has done the absolute right thing. TO SEE A COPY OF THE SUIT, VISIT www.coinlink.com
LEGEND NUMISMATICS FULLY SUPPORTS THE COMPLAINT AND PLEDGES TO HELP PCGS BECOME VICTORIOUS.
THE DEALER CULTURE
There is a rotten to the core subculture of coin dealers close to these guys who truly believe that it is their right to doctor, recolor, or do whatever they please to coins for a living. These people have little respect and nothing but contempt for the grading services and the public. Its time they learn they are not above the law. I have already spoken to several dealers who making their living cracking out coins. They see no wrong because they do not consider themselves full coin doctors. Much to my shock, they have the attitude that PCGS is wrong and the complaint will be dismissed. WRONG!
Its mindboggling these greedy whores fail to realize is that FRAUD has been committed. One dealer said to me "Its the grading services job to not allow doctored coins to get through". True. However, it is against the law to try and defraud them by altering the coins they submit. Once this complaint starts progessing, the peripherial players will be exposed. Those are the guys who really have to be sweating right now. They are the ones who quietly sent coins off to these guys to have the work done for them while they look clean. I think you'll be shocked to see who some of these names are-especially including some well known longtime PNG members. Plus, sooner or later, it probably will be exposed about a few major firms who employ well known coin docs. They will be a tougher fight because they hire them and called them "conservationists or curators". In the end, they won't win-the evidence will be too overwhelming.
PCGS has started the fight "right". They are not just shooting the dark, they gathered the most facts and proof possible then waited for the right opportunity to file the complaint. There never was any secret among major dealers who the real coin doctors are. Dealers like myself were helpless to fight them other than to publicly complain (if you notice few of my fellow dealers ever stood up and spoke out). I could name most docs, I know who a lot of these guys are, however I would have been sued for sure. PCGS can file suit because they have been directly harmed and they have the physical evidence with the proven patterns of deciet these guys followed. It will be interesting to see the defense tactics the defendants will employ. In my opinion, the best they can do will be to deflect and totally deny. Too bad for the docs, facts are facts-no court or jury should rule against a consumer injury by fraud.
My only hope is that PCGS goes after as many of these guy as they can. The amount of serious coin doctors is actually small relative to the number of total dealers inthe business. However, the ones listed in this complaint are just the tip of the iceberg. There are others out there who mix chemicals, recolor coins, add frosting, etc. and brag about it within the dealer world. I have no sympathy for these guys. Their work has made my life miserable and has hurt collectors. They are not around when a customer comes back in a few months or a year or two to show me how the coin I sold turned (note: when a coin is first messed with it can be impossible to detect). Or how when a customer sells their collection and it has become all dreck and I am the one who has to tell them. I have lost hundreds of thousands of dollars buying coins back and I am sure the grading services have lost millions. Even if PCGS has to spend a million dollars on this suit, it will be cheaper for them in the long run. Names will be exposed and others will think twice about coin doctoring as a career. There won't be as many willing submittors these guys can hide behind either. What these bad guys do negatively affects everyone invloved in the hobby.
Also, it is my strong opinion, that ANY dealer who feels this suit is bogus or does not support it, is as guilty as the people named. How on earth could you not support a lawsuit against people ruining coins? PCGS has no reason to just pull names out of hat and go after any one they could. I also feel that any dealer who acted knowingly as a "mule" deserves to be punished as well. Why didn't any of these "mules" ever question why they were submitting coins for others? Altering a rare coin should be a crime, PERIOD. These guys are getting off light by only having to face a civil suit (in Chicago the FBI busted the baseball card guys for fraudulently tampering with cards years ago).
Finally, there is an organiztion (PCGS) doing some self policing and fighting for the collecting public. This suit was public most of the day yesterday. Why have other organizations-especially my beloved (NOT) PNG not commented? Who do they support? I fully understand that ALL of the people named in the suit are INNOCENT until proven guilty, but why can't the PNG at least come out and say something like "we do not condone coin doctoring"? I personally believe its because they know several more of their members WILL be involved. Remember, PNG calls itself the ultimate in consumer protection and claims to hold its dealers to the highest standards of ethics. I am pleased to say that this Wed I will be going in front of the PNG board of directors to discuss coin doctoring and the ramifications of it. I expect to be rubber stamped and not welcomed with huggies and kissys.
WE ALL NEED TO HELP IN THIS FIGHT
One lawsuit will not end the attempts of coin doctors. They are convinced they have a right and probably now feel they are at war with the services. What they do not realize is they are screwing the collector and the hobby in the end. Thats can only happen for so long before everyone is fed up. That time has come. The public needs to speak out more and push organizations with power-like the ANA and the PNG to take action. If collectors know of someone doctoring coins-even on small level, avoid them and tell the grading services. Make your dealer stay away from the bad guys. Write letters to Coin World or discuss the issue on collector forums. Yesterday, a small but significant step was taken in this critical war. We can win and stop the majority of the coin doctors!
This article is the opinion soley of the author, Laura Sperber.
Any comments, please feel free to email: lsperber1@hotmail.com NOTE: I am having email problems, so allow time for a response. "
Silvano DiGenova of California.....
He was once from Philly and was one of the co-founders of PCGS.
I have not bought from him in all these years.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Moved post to PCGS 'coin doctor' suit thread.
Greg Hansen, Melbourne, FL Click here for any current EBAY auctions Multiple "Circle of Trust" transactions over 14 years on forum
Edited for typo.
<< <i>Man do I love Laura, she has the ovaries to speak up about his and make a difference. Cudos to PCGS & David Hall for taking action, and cudos for Laura for standing up to the goons all these years!!!
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>Personally I think she would be better served for her own sake staying away from posting on this forum. MJ >>
I really like hearing her opinions and
<< <i>Man do I love Laura, she has the ovaries to speak up about his and make a difference. Cudos to PCGS & David Hall for taking action, and cudos for Laura for standing up to the goons all these years!!!
I agree 110%
<< <i>Haha TDN made his opinion of this quite clear. He thinks her time is much better off running Legend. >>
We all know this is nonsense because Laura still reads the forum. She refers to us as coin weenies in her reports.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>Haha TDN made his opinion of this quite clear. He thinks her time is much better off running Legend. >>
We all know this is nonsense because Laura still reads the forum. She refers to us as coin weenies in her reports. >>
I said that in my original post.
However it takes much more time to turn a 10-post thread into a 100+ post thread then just reading that same thread...
<< <i>Man do I love Laura, she has the ovaries to speak up about his and make a difference. Cudos to PCGS & David Hall for taking action, and cudos for Laura for standing up to the goons all these years!!!
myCCset
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
<< <i>
<< <i>No one loves Laura more than Longacre, but if she is part of the lawsuit, she should probably not participate on the forums. There are other ways to get the message out to the participants here. >>
What makes you think she is part of the lawsuit? >>
No one loves manofcoins more than Longacre, and no one invites his comments on coin doctoring more than Longacre does, but I want to clarify that I did not mean that Laura was a named defendant. I thought it was written somewhere that she was assisting PCGS.
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>No one loves Laura more than Longacre, but if she is part of the lawsuit, she should probably not participate on the forums. There are other ways to get the message out to the participants here. >>
What makes you think she is part of the lawsuit? >>
No one loves manofcoins more than Longacre, and no one invites his comments on coin doctoring more than Longacre does, but I want to clarify that I did not mean that Laura was a named defendant. I thought it was written somewhere that she was assisting PCGS. >>
There has been absolutely nothing to indicate that Legend is part of the lawsuit. A stated desire to want to support PCGS does not make one part of the lawsuit.
<< <i>
<< <i>No one loves Laura more than Longacre, but if she is part of the lawsuit, she should probably not participate on the forums. There are other ways to get the message out to the participants here. >>
What makes you think she is part of the lawsuit? >>
She may want to testify that she was a victim of the coin doctors. She bought a high grade PCGS slabbed Saint that was puttied and then later turned in its holder.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Lol. Laura needs to keep her nose to the grindstone, not hang out here. But it is cool that she's at least partially vindicated by what's going on now. PNG members accused of being coin doctors and not a word from the Guild? Sigh >>
Bruce, what do you think would be an appropriate comment from them at the present time?
<< <i>
<< <i>Lol. Laura needs to keep her nose to the grindstone, not hang out here. But it is cool that she's at least partially vindicated by what's going on now. PNG members accused of being coin doctors and not a word from the Guild? Sigh >>
Bruce, what do you think would be an appropriate comment from them at the present time? >>
"We really don't know how NGC's bid on the PNG endorsement was formatted exactly the same as PCGS's only slightly higher in each and every aspect"?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Lol. Laura needs to keep her nose to the grindstone, not hang out here. But it is cool that she's at least partially vindicated by what's going on now. PNG members accused of being coin doctors and not a word from the Guild? Sigh >>
Bruce, what do you think would be an appropriate comment from them at the present time? >>
"We really don't know how NGC's bid on the PNG endorsement was formatted exactly the same as PCGS's only slightly higher in each and every aspect"?
That was pretty good, but seriously?
Russ, NCNE
How about: "we are aghast at the allegations put forth by PCGS against some of our members. PNG will not tolerate coin doctoring and submission fraud by its members. Any member found to be committing such fraudulent acts will be expelled from the Guild"
You know - something namby pamby that shows they're concerned but aren't really gonnna do anything. Par for the course...
Some quick comments:
Laura is much too busy to spend much time on any message board. She has no great business reason to do so.
She is an enigma to most people. Get to know her better and you'll realize that she's committed to doing "the right thing" for her trade and her craft.
Outside of coins and beyond her quirky demeanor, she's also a wonderful person. But don't mistake her for Mother Theresa.
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
Let it be known, let it be recorded, that IGWT prompted a post by EVP.
<< <i>I hate to post and run, but I'm really just verifying that my account is still good...
Let it be known, let it be recorded, that IGWT prompted a post by EVP.
So you're willingly accepting the blame?
<< <i>
<< <i>I hate to post and run, but I'm really just verifying that my account is still good...
Let it be known, let it be recorded, that IGWT prompted a post by EVP.
So you're willingly accepting the blame?
Considering the OP was trying to get Laura back (as opposed to me), not sure he has much cause to celebrate.
But seriously, I forgot to add to my previous post... Isn't it a federal crime to "mess with" US legal tender money? I know I'm not speaking with much legalese, but I'm sure many here can extrapolate.
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
<< <i>I presume that you mean pertaining to the issue at hand?
How about: "we are aghast at the allegations put forth by PCGS against some of our members. PNG will not tolerate coin doctoring and submission fraud by its members. Any member found to be committing such fraudulent acts will be expelled from the Guild"
You know - something namby pamby that shows they're concerned but aren't really gonnna do anything. Par for the course... >>
Sometimes silence is deafening.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
<< <i>Isn't it tho? Where is something from the Guild addressing coin doctoring? All it takes for evil to win is for good men to do nothing... >>
Amen.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>Isn't it tho? Where is something from the Guild addressing coin doctoring? All it takes for evil to win is for good men to do nothing... >>
And perhaps a suspension of the accused individuals. Wasn't it a few years ago they suspended Gillio when he was involved in some lawsuit and then reinstated him after he was cleared?
I know I am not going to any PNG days at shows.
And nice to see you, EVP!
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.