-- How do you know that your new "+" coin isn't really, in effect, a "minus"? --
I guess I should have answered Mark's question in my last post. Collectors accept that a "+" isn't really a "minus" for the same reason they previously accepted the grade assigned by PCGS.
IMHO, Mark's minus idea is consistent with the whole point of Secure Plus, which I think is to get more submission fees and to kill CAC. When you have a plus, you think you might be able to resubmit / crack and get an upgrade, which means more submission fees. If you upgrade, that coin should be a "minus" of that grade level. Another angle to plus fever is that collectors drool over getting the plus, but when it comes to sell a plus coin, you only get maybe 10% - 20% more for the coin, whereas the new owner can resubmit and probably get an upgrade eventually. Although the coin may be a "minus," it's still in coveted PCGS plastic, so money can be made by the buyer, and by PCGS for the resubmission fees.
<< <i>If I was worried about getting a plus and not an upgrade, and might not like that system....... I believe I can still submit on the "old" system. If folks want to be excited they got a plus, so be it. I thought having fun in this hobby was what it's all about. >>
You know it's not all about "having fun in this hobby". But that it's also about the grades and the money, for many collectors, not just dealers. Many of the threads here put an exclamation on that point. >>
As I mentioned earlier...
<< <i>I believe I can still submit on the "old" system >>
Which seems to be ignored. And I am with Don Willis, this thread does indeed look like you are raining on the PCGS service......in your own way.
Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
Don, I love when you jump into these threads. Shows you're paying attention to your customers.
I am glad PCGS is being very selective about assigning plus designations. To do otherwise would make non-plussed SP coins perceived as losers. I figure, that non-plussed SP coins are special ones, those collectors and dealers felt might garner the coveted plus grade. Somehow they missed the exclusive cut but are worthy of special attention, nonetheless. Smart. Lance.
<< <i>Don Willis is a super-sesitive snot that bans members that don't agree with PCGS, and try to express their opinion in a free country called America, in which they only have the right to make the money and run a forum like this because of the bloodshed of millions of American Solidiers that defended this freedom with their life. However, PCGS, the American coin grading service, based in America, claims this forum is not a democract, it has to be a democracy or PCGS is unpatriotic and unamerican.
Poor multimillion dollar PCGS, people say bad things about them, but they still make millions of dollars a years as children continue to starve, and PCGS does their best to censor their forum. What a small world PCGS lives in. >>
God bless America. Express your opinion all you want.
Just remember that you're in PCGS's world here, and because this is America, they can control what goes on in it.
If you're worried about starving children, perhaps coin collecting isn't a hobby for you, and you should do some kind of volunteer work instead.
You Suck! Awarded 6/2008- 1901-O Micro O Morgan, 8/2008- 1878 VAM-123 Morgan, 9/2022 1888-O VAM-1B3 H8 Morgan | Senior Regional Representative- ANACS Coin Grading. Posted opinions on coins are my own, and are not an official ANACS opinion.
Thanks for the question Mark. The only reason I submitted my coin was the quarterly freebie, which was the plus system to pique our interest. I'll probably never submit another coin to PCGS for the plus designation, unless it's another freebie. I don't collect my coins for dollars. I collect for the love of my coins/ the hobby. The coin I submitted, I had hoped fore the proper grade of MS 67. It's equally as nice as my MS 68 for the 1976 silver. I was VERY suprised when it was graded ms 66 THREE times!!! I'll enclose a photo.
I think PCGS created the plus system because of CAC, which, I will never submit my coins to. I look at the coin, ONLY. I am a collector, not an investor/dealer. I am not knocking Mitch. I think he's doing the right think to optimize sales results for his customers which is the right thing, as we all would desire when/if we would decide to sell. CAC designation sells a lot of coins for more than they would sell for if not so designated. That sticker does nothing for me. Give me the coin raw instead.
I have purchased many of the coins in my set raw, and, have submitted the to PCGS for grading. I'm happy with some results, but, dissappointed with others. I have a raw set that has many coins that would grade 66/67, but, have NO intention of slabbing. Their appearance to me is paramount.
I was VERY lucky to get a 1 point and a plus designation. I never thought/planned on that. I have some more at PCGS, under the regular grading system that should upgrade. If not, it's possible I may resubmit because of ego/grading ability. I'm a conserative grader, like my Dad. I collect coins, NOT slabs!!! To those who do, I take no offense. Because of this hobby, slabs are VERY important, especially for the registry collectors. I have no intention right now of selling my set, time may change, but, my coins will sell because of their appearance/coin appeal, NOT because of the slab, I hope. Richard Green (RIP) taught me a lot about Kennedys and their grading. We had a great time going back and forth about our sets/trading and the future. He was right on what the future would hold. He will dearly be missed by many.
I am not a very good photographer, but, look at the coin and not the photo. Even Kennedy collectors would probably ask why in the world it was in a 66 holder. Thanks for the question and provoking responses Mark. I am NOT biased because this coin, despite the offers, will remain in my dungeon for a LONG time. Ray
You only live life once, enjoy it like it's your last day. It just MIGHT be!
"but, my coins will sell because of their appearance/coin appeal, NOT because of the slab"
Ray: First, congrats on that wonderful upgrade! After RG sold to me his nicest dozen of so silver Wash quarters from his collection (before selling off the remainder as a unit), I recommended MS Kennedys to RG as his next set challenge and bought (2) #1 PCGS sets many, many years ago to combine so RG could start off his collection with the top coins from the (2) sets. From there, what he did with Kennedys is what Hall of Fame sets are made of.
That said... your MS66 1976-P IMHO was a "three figure" coin last week and is now a multi-thousand dollar coin tonight because of the grading result of the courtesy quarterly secure plus freebie from PCGS. Your coin was wonderful in the MS66 holder and perhaps you could have attracted someone to pay even upwards of $500 or $600 for the lovely MS66. BUT, the multi-thousands have come about through the successful upgrading of the coin. In other words... from the SLAB. Plain and simple. I have MANY MS66 amazing Kennedys that could MS67 one day - including many 1971-P, 1969-D, 1970-D etc, etc. No one will be paying me thousands of dollars for my PCGS-MS66 coins, but the moment I get a 1971-P or a 1970-D in an MS67 holder, I would have a handful of interested parties at thousands of dollars for the coins. The fact is both classic and modern coins often sell at top dollar because of the SLAB they are in. If that is not the case, anyone interested in paying thousands of dollars for truly neat coins that may one day make it into an MS67 holder (and look like MS67 coins in MS66 holders) ... please send me a PM. I have many of them.
One of the great MS68 Kennedys (now worth well into "five figures" ... the coin first hit the LB show in an MS66 holder for a few hundred dollars to the lucky dealer who bought it in that holder. I then passed on the coin in the upgraded MS67 holder at $3,000 when the dealer offered it to me (I thought it was priced too high and unlikely to upgrade - proving once again that everyone makes buying and selling mistakes even in coin series they know a great deal about). The coin then sold for "five figures" in the MS68 upgraded holder when it finally "worked". The SLAB sells; that is just the fact.
Once again, just my 2 cents. Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
That would be again, Richard's 1964-D in MS 68. Started in 66, but, because of appearance, got into a 68 holder. In hand, was a very nice coin. He sent it to me to see what I thought of it. I think it's in it's rightful 68 holder. Very nice coin and pretty toning. Thanks Mitch! Ray
You only live life once, enjoy it like it's your last day. It just MIGHT be!
I just tried the freebie + for a 1936-D San Diego MS65 that I just bought the BST last month. I just got an email tonight that is graded an MS66! I'll take 66 over a 65+ anyday!!!
If I had a coin that could grade 65+ or 66 and wanted it SPed, depending on the price spread between the two, it would seem wisest for me to submit under the regular service as many times as prudent to try for the 66 grade, then submit it for SP once I've either received a 66, in which case the SP holder will help deter doctors and I have a slim chance at adding a + to my 66, or given up on 66, in which case 65+ will do nicely. This prevents the + from being a -.
"Our objective is to give every coin the highest grade it deserves. " - Don Willis
".....that statement damn near brought me to tears ,..." - Paw Paul
Me too. I would prefer "...accurate..." - highest seems to be endless road rich with resubmission possibilities. Accurate would be a dead stop. JMHO.
"...If I had a coin that could grade 65+ or 66 and wanted it SPed, depending on the price spread between the two, it would seem wisest for me to submit under the regular service as many times as prudent to try for the 66 grade, then submit it for SP once I've either received a 66, in which case the SP holder will help deter doctors and I have a slim chance at adding a + to my 66, or given up on 66, in which case 65+ will do nicely. This prevents the + from being a -..."
And, it seems that will add up as well.
Thank goodness the coins themselves are relatively static.
<< <i>Mine (4) coins went up a point, but a collector just reported here getting a full point AND the + as well on his secure plus submission - essentially 1 1/2 points up on his secure plus submission.
Wondercoin >>
But perhaps that coin would have jumped 2 full points before the + was an available option?? >>
Comments
I guess I should have answered Mark's question in my last post. Collectors accept that a "+" isn't really a "minus" for the same reason they previously accepted the grade assigned by PCGS.
<< <i>
<< <i>If I was worried about getting a plus and not an upgrade, and might not like that system....... I believe I can still submit on the "old" system. If folks want to be excited they got a plus, so be it.
I thought having fun in this hobby was what it's all about. >>
You know it's not all about "having fun in this hobby". But that it's also about the grades and the money, for many collectors, not just dealers. Many of the threads here put an exclamation on that point. >>
As I mentioned earlier...
<< <i>I believe I can still submit on the "old" system >>
Which seems to be ignored. And I am with Don Willis, this thread does indeed look like you are raining on the PCGS service......in your own way.
I love when you jump into these threads. Shows you're paying attention to your customers.
I am glad PCGS is being very selective about assigning plus designations. To do otherwise would make non-plussed SP coins perceived as losers. I figure, that non-plussed SP coins are special ones, those collectors and dealers felt might garner the coveted plus grade. Somehow they missed the exclusive cut but are worthy of special attention, nonetheless. Smart.
Lance.
<< <i>Don Willis is a super-sesitive snot that bans members that don't agree with PCGS, and try to express their opinion in a free country called America, in which they only have the right to make the money and run a forum like this because of the bloodshed of millions of American Solidiers that defended this freedom with their life. However, PCGS, the American coin grading service, based in America, claims this forum is not a democract, it has to be a democracy or PCGS is unpatriotic and unamerican.
Poor multimillion dollar PCGS, people say bad things about them, but they still make millions of dollars a years as children continue to starve, and PCGS does their best to censor their forum. What a small world PCGS lives in. >>
God bless America. Express your opinion all you want.
Just remember that you're in PCGS's world here, and because this is America, they can control what goes on in it.
If you're worried about starving children, perhaps coin collecting isn't a hobby for you, and you should do some kind of volunteer work instead.
I think PCGS created the plus system because of CAC, which, I will never submit my coins to. I look at the coin, ONLY. I am a collector, not an investor/dealer. I am not knocking Mitch. I think he's doing the right think to optimize sales results for his customers which is the right thing, as we all would desire when/if we would decide to sell. CAC designation sells a lot of coins for more than they would sell for if not so designated. That sticker does nothing for me. Give me the coin raw instead.
I have purchased many of the coins in my set raw, and, have submitted the to PCGS for grading. I'm happy with some results, but, dissappointed with others. I have a raw set that has many coins that would grade 66/67, but, have NO intention of slabbing. Their appearance to me is paramount.
I was VERY lucky to get a 1 point and a plus designation. I never thought/planned on that. I have some more at PCGS, under the regular grading system that should upgrade. If not, it's possible I may resubmit because of ego/grading ability. I'm a conserative grader, like my Dad. I collect coins, NOT slabs!!! To those who do, I take no offense. Because of this hobby, slabs are VERY important, especially for the registry collectors. I have no intention right now of selling my set, time may change, but, my coins will sell because of their appearance/coin appeal, NOT because of the slab, I hope. Richard Green (RIP) taught me a lot about Kennedys and their grading. We had a great time going back and forth about our sets/trading and the future. He was right on what the future would hold. He will dearly be missed by many.
I am not a very good photographer, but, look at the coin and not the photo. Even Kennedy collectors would probably ask why in the world it was in a 66 holder. Thanks for the question and provoking responses Mark. I am NOT biased because this coin, despite the offers, will remain in my dungeon for a LONG time. Ray
Ray: First, congrats on that wonderful upgrade! After RG sold to me his nicest dozen of so silver Wash quarters from his collection (before selling off the remainder as a unit), I recommended MS Kennedys to RG as his next set challenge and bought (2) #1 PCGS sets many, many years ago to combine so RG could start off his collection with the top coins from the (2) sets. From there, what he did with Kennedys is what Hall of Fame sets are made of.
That said... your MS66 1976-P IMHO was a "three figure" coin last week and is now a multi-thousand dollar coin tonight because of the grading result of the courtesy quarterly secure plus freebie from PCGS. Your coin was wonderful in the MS66 holder and perhaps you could have attracted someone to pay even upwards of $500 or $600 for the lovely MS66. BUT, the multi-thousands have come about through the successful upgrading of the coin. In other words... from the SLAB. Plain and simple. I have MANY MS66 amazing Kennedys that could MS67 one day - including many 1971-P, 1969-D, 1970-D etc, etc. No one will be paying me thousands of dollars for my PCGS-MS66 coins, but the moment I get a 1971-P or a 1970-D in an MS67 holder, I would have a handful of interested parties at thousands of dollars for the coins. The fact is both classic and modern coins often sell at top dollar because of the SLAB they are in. If that is not the case, anyone interested in paying thousands of dollars for truly neat coins that may one day make it into an MS67 holder (and look like MS67 coins in MS66 holders) ... please send me a PM. I have many of them.
One of the great MS68 Kennedys (now worth well into "five figures" ... the coin first hit the LB show in an MS66 holder for a few hundred dollars to the lucky dealer who bought it in that holder. I then passed on the coin in the upgraded MS67 holder at $3,000 when the dealer offered it to me (I thought it was priced too high and unlikely to upgrade - proving once again that everyone makes buying and selling mistakes even in coin series they know a great deal about). The coin then sold for "five figures" in the MS68 upgraded holder when it finally "worked". The SLAB sells; that is just the fact.
Once again, just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
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a coin can not be minted without it ?
This Memorial Day we will remember all those who suffered or died to preserve our Liberty.........
Liberty , that's stamped on virtually every U.S. coin as well ; so important and so treasured
let us not loose sight of what Freedom means and who our coins remind us we trust
".....that statement damn near brought me to tears ,..." - Paw Paul
Me too. I would prefer "...accurate..." - highest seems to be endless road rich with resubmission possibilities. Accurate would be a dead stop. JMHO.
"...If I had a coin that could grade 65+ or 66 and wanted it SPed, depending on the price spread between the two, it would seem wisest for me to submit under the regular service as many times as prudent to try for the 66 grade, then submit it for SP once I've either received a 66, in which case the SP holder will help deter doctors and I have a slim chance at adding a + to my 66, or given up on 66, in which case 65+ will do nicely. This prevents the + from being a -..."
And, it seems that will add up as well.
Thank goodness the coins themselves are relatively static.
Eric
Edited to add the names of those I quoted.
<< <i>
<< <i>Mine (4) coins went up a point, but a collector just reported here getting a full point AND the + as well on his secure plus submission - essentially 1 1/2 points up on his secure plus submission.
Wondercoin >>
But perhaps that coin would have jumped 2 full points before the + was an available option?? >>
...And so it goes...
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