Anyone know if eBay "Vangarris " is on these boards ?
PawPaul
Posts: 5,845 ✭
this "Vangarris " puts up a bunch of PCGS MS66 & MS66FBL better date Franklins on eBay with no reserves .
The bidding is weak on most all of them for a week -then with less the 12 hours to go ,
"r....o" (private) and " a....7 " (175) combine to run up the bids on most of them to triple the levels they were bid at ..........
can sellers conspire to do this with such impunity ? is this guy so naive that he thinks he's pulling a fast one without nobody noticing ??
The bidding is weak on most all of them for a week -then with less the 12 hours to go ,
"r....o" (private) and " a....7 " (175) combine to run up the bids on most of them to triple the levels they were bid at ..........
can sellers conspire to do this with such impunity ? is this guy so naive that he thinks he's pulling a fast one without nobody noticing ??
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Comments
<< <i>When this happens to me as a buyer I get a little frustrated at first but you realize 2 things. If you bid what youre willing to pay for a coin your eihter gonna win it or not at that level regardless. And second this is no different than a reserve auction when its said and done. Either your price gets it or not. >>
I agree.
<< <i>I never have much sympathy for potential ebay buyers whining because they aren't given a chance to buy something below it's value. --Jerry >>
I had no intent to buy any of them , there are bid quality at best .
My aim was to point out blatant shilling ,
if you choose to support or defend such activity-
whatever floats your boat
<< <i>My aim was to point out blatant shilling , >>
Can you provide evidence of your allegation?
If not, an explanation of why this is not simply two snipers that went head-to-head would be appreciated.
take your allegations to them
on each auction page there is a link to 'report auction'
<< <i>The alleged shills are bidding on a lot of other auctions. So if they are shilling, they are doing it for lots of folks. >>
Your facts and common sense appeared to kill this thread, for gods sake man have you no shame?
<< <i>
<< <i>I never have much sympathy for potential ebay buyers whining because they aren't given a chance to buy something below it's value. --Jerry >>
I had no intent to buy any of them , there are bid quality at best .
My aim was to point out blatant shilling ,
if you choose to support or defend such activity-
whatever floats your boat >>
Shilling is how some sellers choose to set their minimum sell price. I don't condone breaking ebay rules and I never shill my auctions. However, in a gross oversimplification, I will say that if it wasn't against ebay rules, I would have basicly no problem with it. Some auction houses set their reserves by having the seller bid his maximum bid. I still probably wouldn't do it that way but I see it now as basicly a rules issue.
So I guess my point is that I believe that the reason buyers get so upset with shilling is that they are hoping to win a coin at a significant discount to market price and I can't blame a seller for not wanting that to happen.
I just use the BIN when I need a minimum price.
--Jerry
<< <i>
<< <i>I never have much sympathy for potential ebay buyers whining because they aren't given a chance to buy something below it's value. --Jerry >>
I had no intent to buy any of them , there are bid quality at best .
My aim was to point out blatant shilling ,
if you choose to support or defend such activity-
whatever floats your boat >>
ALLEGED acts, at least without corroborating evidence.
Many of my auctions don't get near reasonable valuations until the last few moments of the auction - many, if not most serious eBayers use sniping programs these days.
Edited to add that when I viewed a sample of the bidding histories and bid levels of the winning bidders, the pattern of two or more last minute "sniping " type bidders would have rendered the actions of the two bidders the OP cites totally moot.
The actions of the two suposed "shill bidders" that the OP mentions look very much like the bottom feeders that seem to bid on a lot of my auctions but never win anything. They are just part of the wonderful mosaic of humanity that inhabits eBay. They only need to score occasioally to win big
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
But in that case, you usually only get one bid a few seconds before the end of the auction.
If there are multiple bids then it's usually just people waiting till the end and bidding manually.
Generally, shill bidding happens earlier on in an auction to try and show there's some interest in an item. And yeah, it's definitely a no-no.
So many get thier coins there
I think if the buyer is private -it stays private even in the feedback.
I do not believe I need to supply evidence or proof - it is obvious shilling
I follow transactions on eBay Franklins on a daily basis, I study bidding patterns, I keep an eye on high powered stuff that's listed unprotected with no reserve
I follow dang near every single PCGS Mint State Franklin that comes up on eBay , I know who the bottom feeders are and by keeping a log
of feedback ratings , I usually can deduce who the bidders are . I watch closely the sniping and I know pretty well the levels most Franklin's will go for.
I even waste my time exposing a seller that employs shilling tactics that even a 6th grader could uncover........
I always get a chuckle out of the responses from " the good 'ole boy club" when they stick together
like birds of a feather
...I will remember to keep future information I discover about shilling to myself
<< <i>I do not believe I need to supply evidence or proof - it is obvious shilling >>
If this is your position I assume you've reported the seller to eBay?
<< <i>bigE ,
I think if the buyer is private -it stays private even in the feedback.
I do not believe I need to supply evidence or proof - it is obvious shilling
>>
In absense of evidence or proof, by definition, it is NOT obvious shilling. But why inject logic into this discussion?
I understand your feelings of the shill bidding but as you noted the obvious, there isn't much to do about it except what you have already learned and that is to recognize it for what it is and except the things you can change and recognize the things you can't. It happens(shilling) all the time and is a way of life on the bay.
Steve
<< <i>
<< <i>bigE ,
I think if the buyer is private -it stays private even in the feedback.
I do not believe I need to supply evidence or proof - it is obvious shilling
>>
In absense of evidence or proof, by definition, it is NOT obvious shilling. But why inject logic into this discussion? >>
Logic is wasted on grumpy people with obviously WAY too much time on their hands.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1