Coin Now In New Secure Plus Slab & Upgraded!Why is this wreath cent not in a genuine holder?

Rob41281 · May 20, 2010 8:50AM

Updated: Coin is for sale again only now its been reslabbed and upgraded. I dont get it.
Link

You sometimes see older coins get into a holder with a small scratch or 2 that have usually been toned over or blend in. The scratches on this coin appear deep and intentional. Was genuine not around when this coin was graded?? Or are those scratches acceptable?

Original Link

braddick · May 20, 2010 9:00AM

Wow!
Between the deep cuts on the obverse at 4:00 and the green (active?) crud on the reverse I too am surprised it didn't GENUINE.

crazyhounddog · May 20, 2010 9:07AM

<< Wow!
Between the deep cuts on the obverse at 4:00 and the green (active?) crud on the reverse I too am surprised it didn't GENUINE. >>

Mercury10c · May 20, 2010 9:11AM

Because it's a wreath cent.

blu62vette · May 20, 2010 9:12AM

<< Because it's a wreath cent. >>

That was the answer in my head when I saw the title but after seeing the coin I am surprised it is in a holder.

Baley · May 20, 2010 9:16AM

the same marks would not be acceptable on a wreath cent in a significantly higher grade

or a Lincoln memorial cent in any grade.

LindeDad · May 20, 2010 9:22AM

That holder appears to me to be from before PCGS started the Genuine program.

joecopper · May 20, 2010 7:37PM

TPG's not good coppper graders -

If before "Genuine" why not BB'ed?

coinpictures · May 21, 2010 10:27AM

Clear and obvious grafitti. PCGS should buy the coin back.

WaterSport · May 21, 2010 9:43PM

I agree, its because its a wreath cent. All I will say that I have been submitting circulated large cents and have been very surprised what makes a grade. Cleaning they do not hesitate to genuine, but many other crud, pitted coins get by. But remember your looking at a high resolution picture which a grader is not. If all coins where photographed and examined like this one, I would guarantee you at least 1/3 of everyone's slabbed coins would be at least two points lower graded and many genuine.

WS

PawPaul · May 22, 2010 5:43AM

<< That holder appears to me to be from before PCGS started the Genuine program. >>

......yes, you are correct

PawPaul · May 22, 2010 5:48AM

I would guarantee you at least 1/3 of everyone's slabbed coins would be at least two points lower graded and many genuine.

thats one hellova guarantee ! you sure you wouldn't like to change that to :

" 1/8 of most people's coins could grade a point lower with some genuine " ?

crypto79 · May 22, 2010 5:55AM

<< I would guarantee you at least 1/3 of everyone's slabbed coins would be at least two points lower graded and many genuine.

thats one hellova guarantee ! you sure you wouldn't like to change that to :

" 1/8 of most people's coins could grade a point lower with some genuine " ? >>

More like 1/3 of people classic graded coins, Modern stuff not included

PawPaul · May 22, 2010 6:26AM

.........'cause you see , I spent more then the last twenty years collecting Franklins and have over 400 PCGS slabs MS65 and higher .

I have sold off the mistakes and have held on to the high end top quality pieces -

I doubt less then 10 would be downgraded by even one point and less then 5 would get genuined

Alltheabove76 · May 22, 2010 7:03AM

That may be the worst case I have ever seen of PCGS grading something they shouldnt have. Doesnt matter if its a wreath cent or not. That is not right and I am sure they would buy it back. There is just no way that coin should be given a grade. Environmental damange and graffiti? Come on.

dizzyfoxx · May 22, 2010 7:11AM

Does it maybe depend upon who submitted it?

PawPaul · May 22, 2010 8:51AM

...reminds me of the large cent that was posted here a few years back ;

in a PCGS holder and the word CENT had the " E " tooled/changed to a " U " .

Frankcoins · May 23, 2010 5:54AM

The coin is very acceptable in the marketplace. Please consider This

Baley · May 23, 2010 6:43AM

and consider this, PCGS VF-35 with scratches and digs

these aren't graded like more recent one cent coins.... whether they SHOULD be or not is debatable, but the the reality is, PCGS graders are realistic about how these coins are found.

both very nice coins, btw. those who disagree, let's see yours

notwilight · May 23, 2010 8:24AM

<< 

both very nice coins, btw. those who disagree, let's see yours

>>

I second that.

coinpictures · May 23, 2010 9:47AM

<< and consider this, PCGS VF-35 with scratches and digs >>

The flaws on that coin are a far cry from those on the coin on this thread. Not even close.

<< both very nice coins, btw. those who disagree, let's see yours

>>

I'm not saying I don't like the coin. It just doesn't belong in a no-problem holder. Period. If PCGS is ok with graffittied coins in their holders, that pretty much flies in the face of the very consistency they claim to be the hallmark of.

It doesn't matter how rare the coin is. That's immaterial.

IrishMikey · May 24, 2010 4:53AM

Boy, you guys are pretty hard on a 217 year old coin. Be nice to the poor girl! While I
agree that the two cuts need to be described, the seller has done exactly that, albeit
with a little seller's flair. A coin like this really needs to be assessed in hand, to get a
true feel for the impact the cuts and the crud have on the overall appearance of the coin.

ColonialCoinUnion · May 24, 2010 5:11AM

<< I'm not saying I don't like the coin. It just doesn't belong in a no-problem holder. Period. If PCGS is ok with graffittied coins in their holders, that pretty much flies in the face of the very consistency they claim to be the hallmark of. It doesn't matter how rare the coin is. That's immaterial. >>

You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but minor damage, scratches or even graffiti on especially old and rare coins have historically been excused by PCGS, such as on the coin which is the subject of this thread, and on this Higley copper which sold at Stack's a few months ago in a PCGS VG8 holder:

Rob41281 · July 1, 2010 12:58AM

Updated

coinpictures · July 1, 2010 1:22AM

What a friggin' joke. TPG consistency, my butt.

Billet7 · July 1, 2010 1:57AM

I've seen worse. I think it's a very nice coin, even with the marks. I think one of the problems we are running into is that the images of the coin are showcasing the digs as being bigger than they really are. In hand I would imagine they are much more insignificant. Additionally super early copper gets a bit of leeway, since they were so poorly made, and were not cared for in the least. They were considered junk coins when they were minted, so that in the end the majority of the coins extant are in much worse shape than the coin in question. I mean seriously, have you seen the G-4 Strawberry Cent? It's in a problem free holder.

doh · July 1, 2010 2:05AM

The X scratch on the obverse looks very old, so I'm fine with it being in a graded holder, but I am very surprised it upgraded.

MrYuk · July 6, 2010 2:55PM

Howdy, boardsters. This is my coin, btw, that you all are discussing. I personally consigned it to coinman1794 who has done a very standup job in selling most of my NGC registry type set. It hurt to liquidate a set that was 90% complete and years in the making but I valued buying a house with cash money more than the set. I personally paid $3500 + for this coin a few years ago. The planchet is very nice as is the patina. The reverse verdigris is barely noticable in hand as are the cuts. I was/am an advanced collector and try to avoid coins with "buts" (this coin is great but for....). Of course, I'd prefer the same coin without the teepee cuts "but" it was available, very nice in hand and affordable at the time. Not to mention, I needed the type! So, I caved and purchased this coin for my set because I just could not find a better coin in my price range after looking for a long time.
My thanks out to the numismatist that started this thread, btw. Because of it, I sent the coin back to PCGS and you see the results. It upgraded because it really is a nice looking coin despite the buts. Sure, the TPGS game really sux at times. I have a nice former PCGS MS63 20C that I had purchased from Mark Feld. I cracked it for my Dansco 7070 back when since that was how I started my type set at the time. I've resubmitted it 3 times to PCGS since. It came back 62 the first two times and AU55 the last time. Insane! The game is aggravated but there's not a darn thing that I can do to change it so I just have to roll with it like the rest of you. I also have a 1930 former MS65 FH SLQ. The luster is amazing, the coin is original and the fields are very, very sweet. It also came from Mark. This coin has been regraded 64 FH twice! IMO, the coin is high end 65 with the FH questionable, not the numerical grade! And don't even get me started on my MS70'd proof IHC. The coin market is tough on the collector, especially when starting out. It can even get the advanced collector if one's vigil is not constantly kept at its peak.
So, to summarize, we can criticize all we want. It ain't gonna change a darn thing. We, as collectors, must purchase the best coin we can and always try to avoid the "buts".
When we do settle for such a coin, it will always create controversy. Anyway, nuf said.
Best wishes to all of my fellow collectors! Salud!

Connecticoin · July 6, 2010 9:27PM

Thanks for the reply, Mr. Yuk.

The wreath cent looks very nice, and I will take CCU's word as to what is acceptable on early copper. Like an umpires strike zone, as long as PCGS is consistent, then we can live with it.

Unfortunately for you, on other series, the PCGS "strike zone" seems to have wandered a bit.

Justacommeman · July 6, 2010 10:24PM

MrYuk

That was a totally refreshing post. Awesome. I do love a good back story...........good luck with the sale and one cool coin to boot. MJ

Coin Now In New Secure Plus Slab & Upgraded!Why is this wreath cent not in a genuine holder?

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**Coin Now In New Secure Plus Slab &amp; Upgraded!**Why is this wreath cent not in a genuine holder?

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Coin Now In New Secure Plus Slab & Upgraded!Why is this wreath cent not in a genuine holder?